Controlling nitrogen (N) with general-purpose coco A+B nutes

[Guest]

My bottle of coco B says 1-4-2, does anyone else's say otherwise?

 

[clowntown]

IIRC, my Canna Coco B read 0-4-2. I'll have to double-check when I get home, but from what I can find on the web it's 0-4-2 as well.

 

[EddieShoestring]

my Canna Coco only has the total A+B breakdown on the bottle-it is 5-4-3

i got figures A 4:0:1/B 0:4:2 off the web-but i'm guessing that 0:4:2 is a typo and should read 1:4:2 giving 5:4:3

i understand the problem but personally wouldn't go down the route of giving just one part of a two part mix. In the case of Canna Coco the A is brown-while the B is clear, that brown colour isn't going to be the extra N -its going to be some of the humic acids and other stuff that's not in the B. And vice versa.

 

[clowntown]

EddieShoestring, that's what I was thinking too (about not mixing A+B in equal proportions). What's your thoughts on keeping the A+B low, and increasing PK13/14 (or otherwise) to keep a low (or no) level of nitrogen in the mix? Do you think this could possibly lower other non-NPK's to an unacceptable level?

I vaguely remember seeing how certain nutes, namely organic nutes, are measured differently depending on the locale. So the exact same formula in one country could be labeled (for example) 5-4-3, while in another country must be labeled 4-4-3. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Would this apply to synthetic nutes?

Indica Sativa, are you in the UK / EU by any chance?

 

[Guest]

I never understood Big Bud's formula... 0-1-4 ??

In my grow book it has a chart for the different stages of growth and PPM's of N P and K.

During every stage the P and K are basically equal, and sometimes it needs more P than K. So how would using Big Bud help if it's formula is 0-1-4 that is in no way the formula they need at any stage of growth. Or am I wrong?

Thats why I chose pk 13-14

 

[Guest]

Im in the good ole USA

Anyone try calling a Canna rep yet?

 

[clowntown]

I never understood Big Bud's formula... 0-1-4 ??

In my grow book it has a chart for the different stages of growth and PPM's of N P and K.

During every stage the P and K are basically equal, and sometimes it needs more P than K. So how would using Big Bud help if it's formula is 0-1-4 that is in no way the formula they need at any stage of growth. Or am I wrong?

Thats why I chose pk 13-14

I think this is one of those "don't mix brands" (unless you know what you're doing) things, where the 0-1-4 may complement AN's base nutes and other products well but may not necessarily work well with other base nutes. Same with, say, using PK13/14 on AN base nutes.

 

[Guest]

i tried bud blood ,big,bud and carbo load with canna coco a + b ,,i never tried it twice !!!!!

 

[EddieShoestring]

I vaguely remember seeing how certain nutes, namely organic nutes, are measured differently depending on the locale. So the exact same formula in one country could be labeled (for example) 5-4-3, while in another country must be labeled 4-4-3. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Would this apply to synthetic nutes?

yo CT-tell me thats not true. I'm supposed sell this shit for a living and i've never heard that-you're frightening me now-lol

What's your thoughts on keeping the A+B low, and increasing PK13/14 (or otherwise) to keep a low (or no) level of nitrogen in the mix? Do you think this could possibly lower other non-NPK's to an unacceptable level?

short answer is i don't know. I'm still experimenting myself being quite new to coco.
I've been moving away from heavy doses of pk for the past few years-it all started when growing Powerplant in nft-every run the pk burnt the leaves-even down to using 0.25ml/L on top of a very low ec. So i tend to skimp on it and go with A+B most of the way through.
Having said that this run i am going to try GH Ripen from about week 3 on one plant-with some A+B say once a week. Ripen is a weak pk boost with a whole heap of hormones and stuff to finish the plant.

eddie

 

[toohighmf]

depending on powder or liquid

depending on powder or liquid

the bottles say 0-1-4, but the powder actually says 0-10-40. they use these NPK's for a product that is to be used in conjuction w Overdrive's 1-3-4. (which is very similar to PK 13/14 if you really think about it.) Big Bud does its job by actually constantly working where these kerblooms and monster blooms and Nitros (0-50-30's) really only work in 1 weekly application, then the Boost is done. its pushed the plants to the limit which is why I only reccomend them in the final week of food before a nice long flush. As Far As Nitrogen Goes. If you look at the combined A&B's NPK you are not getting a true rating on your nitrogen. their is organic nitrogen and synthetic nitrogen. Certain nitrogen in the B bottle is almost totally useless, but because the FDA requires fertilizer companies to give a guaranteed analysis of their product, you see it on the bottle. If you are working with 2 parts, I strongly recommend you use them equally, unless otherwise mentioned. you will need to find some sort of bloom stim high in P&K to stimulate flowering. I like the Big bud and over drive. House n Gardens Shooting powder and Budxl are 2 others I like as they give different NPK's as the plants mature by using the two different products at the right phase in the plants life.

I never understood Big Bud's formula... 0-1-4 ??

In my grow book it has a chart for the different stages of growth and PPM's of N P and K.

During every stage the P and K are basically equal, and sometimes it needs more P than K. So how would using Big Bud help if it's formula is 0-1-4 that is in no way the formula they need at any stage of growth. Or am I wrong?

Thats why I chose pk 13-14

 

[knna]

Ive asked to canna for the NPK composition of each bottle and where each micro is. But i needed to do it by email, im a registered member in the Canna club, but the Canna page of my country doesnt work last days. So if any or you ask for the same in your Canna web, we ensure an answering, thought.

I never use more than 0,15ml/l of PK, although i add it more times than Canna's reccomendations. Ive noticed it worked better this way, at least for me. Its a very strong stuff.

 

[toohighmf]

not a big fan

not a big fan

i tried bud blood ,big,bud and carbo load with canna coco a + b ,,i never tried it twice !!!!!

I'm not a big fan of bud blood. its one of those Harsh NPK boosters that kicks a plant into overdrive to quick. some love it though. nothing like a fried crop at day 8! I still stand by the big bud/overdrive, or H&G's shooting powder and bud XL.
(IN MODERATION).

 

[toohighmf]

this theory on non mix brands...

this theory on non mix brands...

I think this is one of those "don't mix brands" (unless you know what you're doing) things, where the 0-1-4 may complement AN's base nutes and other products well but may not necessarily work well with other base nutes. Same with, say, using PK13/14 on AN base nutes.

After doing this for quite a long time and been to many a tradeshow, I used to live off sample bottles. their was a year where I didnt use the same product every week. I used what i had, and it worked great. I know plenty of people using sensi A/B or SBB w the same products their using AN or GH 3 part.

my personal best was with lucas formula, big bud, pro silicate, budxl, and
some botanicare LK, Calmg+, and hydroguard. thats a mix of House & garden, AN, botanicare and GH.

One more thing. I hear a lot of people complain about the inflated prices of AN. Have you looked and compared other "similar" products at the concentration levels before actually making that call? What about House N Gardens high prices? If I'm not mistaken AN's 3 part is the same NPK and concentration as GH flora series, yet the cost is 15% less on average. SBB vs. Sensi A&B... guess which is cheaper. House gardens roots excellerator.. 2oz. for $130. good stuff! but voodoo is $80 a liter(though you do use more voodoo) Sure some products are gimmicky and I dont know what AN was thinking when they developed any more products after the 2+ regiment. its not my company. If it was, I certainly wouldnt of marketed it like it is and yes I would of seen what I could do about pricing... even if that meant diluting it like the B'cuzz's and other MFG's out there. If you Use AN the Way its recomended on the bottle your in for a wild ride. dilute the mix to a third... you got something people will be kissing your *ss forever for. But all nutrient companies want to make a buck. their not in business to lose, yet they forget that repeat sales from average joe is only going to make their business bigger and better. instead they give you a calculator and say..HERE use it like this! Use the piss out of these products! And when your lost and you fried your crop, we have tech support and forums to help sort you through your mess. so you can try it again! This is where a hater is born.. they knew what they were doing with their own little coctail; then they follow some mathmatically generated nute calc and expect the calc to understand deficiencies, or lockout, so these people just keep adding the stuff in hopes the problem will just go away. If people are going to use all this stuff in their grows, they better know when and how to add them. it takes years to diagnose what a plant is lacking. learn the plant while learning what these different products do before betting the farm on a $1000 worth of nutes. rant over.

 

[Gangsta Lean]

ohhhhh toohigh breakin it dowwwwwwon
good info here people

 

[Guest]

Canna sell a Nitrogen additive

Canna sell a Nitrogen additive

I use it in the minimum recommend quantity's, with A+B during the vegging period.... I believe it does increase the vegetation, and with regular seeds helps feminization.

(Ok this might be an 'old wives tale') But the plant don't seem to mind.

gringle.

 

[Guest]

I think this is one of those "don't mix brands" (unless you know what you're doing) things, where the 0-1-4 may complement AN's base nutes and other products well but may not necessarily work well with other base nutes. Same with, say, using PK13/14 on AN base nutes.

That is a great point

 

[Guest]

this mofo is way tooo high

lol 0-1-4 and 0-10-40 are the same thing, you've been out of school for too long

you can simplify it down to 0-1-4 right? so its basically the same formula

edit: i just realized im thinking of fractions...oops whos the idiot now? lol can you still simplify these formulas or am i wrong

the bottles say 0-1-4, but the powder actually says 0-10-40. they use these NPK's for a product that is to be used in conjuction w Overdrive's 1-3-4. (which is very similar to PK 13/14 if you really think about it.) Big Bud does its job by actually constantly working where these kerblooms and monster blooms and Nitros (0-50-30's) really only work in 1 weekly application, then the Boost is done. its pushed the plants to the limit which is why I only reccomend them in the final week of food before a nice long flush. As Far As Nitrogen Goes. If you look at the combined A&B's NPK you are not getting a true rating on your nitrogen. their is organic nitrogen and synthetic nitrogen. Certain nitrogen in the B bottle is almost totally useless, but because the FDA requires fertilizer companies to give a guaranteed analysis of their product, you see it on the bottle. If you are working with 2 parts, I strongly recommend you use them equally, unless otherwise mentioned. you will need to find some sort of bloom stim high in P&K to stimulate flowering. I like the Big bud and over drive. House n Gardens Shooting powder and Budxl are 2 others I like as they give different NPK's as the plants mature by using the two different products at the right phase in the plants life.

 

[toohighmf]

your not wrong

your not wrong

its just a differnt dilution ratio from liquid to powder. yes decimals bud! but yeah I am too high.. always. hasnt done me wrong. anyway, I sense a slight tad of sarchasm. I only mean well. my intentions are good. I am not endorsing that AN is the end all god given nutrient line. Big Bud and Overdrive are 2 products I happen to really like. I hope I'm not being discriminated for my old AN affiliation. I dont have anything to do w em anymore. I'm not payed to endorse them. I offered other bloom enhancement systems, and like I said, I use what got... right now it happens to be a lot of AN prod left. I will use it and the House n garden stuff I have. enjoy your morning!

 

[Guest]

lol cool, good stuff

i really want to try AN but to get everything i need from them it'd cost me $200, when i can get much cheaper products elsewhere, right now im looking @ canna, may not be as good but to be totally honest im not that great of a grower and if i had 10 bottles of AN stuff i'd probably burn my plants in a week!

 

[inflorescence]

this mofo is way tooo high

lol 0-1-4 and 0-10-40 are the same thing, you've been out of school for too long

you can simplify it down to 0-1-4 right? so its basically the same formula

edit: i just realized im thinking of fractions...oops whos the idiot now? lol can you still simplify these formulas or am i wrong

Right. It's just like your using 1/10th the amount or vice versa.
The powder is more concentrated but exact same ratio?
But try converting grams to ml. OMG I think my head just exploded. (google search turned up specific gravity's, etc, LOL)
Also, I have like 10 different AN Big Bud brochures and print outs from AN nute calculator (older, newer, who knows lol) for the Big Bud powder amount and a lot of them say start with .36 gram/L but other brouchures and calc printouts say like 1.36 G/L.

I just used my hanna to figure around 100 ppm Big Bud to start (On top of my existing FNB ppm. I'm not coco, sorry for the thread-jack ). Is this close?