Constant problem at a building

[Hookah79]

Formaldehyde?

You would think after a year and a half it would’ve evaporated by now.

 

[Three Berries]

You would think after a year and a half it would’ve evaporated by now.

Yes you would think. A test kit is about $15 on Amazon.

 

[Hookah79]

This building is jinxed!.
Been busy dealing with a tree that fell on my power line which ripped the ct cabinet off the brick wall.
Had i not enforced the riser with that metal beam that whole wall would’ve caved in.
Ugggghhhh.

 

[Hookah79]

The same plant outside.Been feeding it old feed from the building that hasn’t aerated for over 2 weeks.I haven’t been feeding it as much as i should and it needs to be transplanted.

You could see there’s no brown tips or abnormal growth/leaf twisting etc.We can 100% rule out water/nutrients/ph/growing methods etc.

 

[ssgligaspacksupply]

First batch, plants were stripped completely from all the bad leaves and we cut off the branches to start them over because of the problems and the new growth again resembled the old ones.Notice each strain acts differently. View attachment 17904614

Im having the same problem as we speak. 10 year grower over here and have never ever seen something like this and spread soooo fast in the span of 2 days. Found out my one partner had russet mites at his main spot and he gave them to our spot. wiped out my whole veg and mother room. Destroyed my 2 flower rooms and all. Lost everything

 

[Creeperpark]

Im having the same problem as we speak. 10 year grower over here and have never ever seen something like this and spread soooo fast in the span of 2 days. Found out my one partner had russet mites at his main spot and he gave them to our spot. wiped out my whole veg and mother room. Destroyed my 2 flower rooms and all. Lost everything

Sorry for your loss friend. Thank you for keeping us posted and sharing the results. I will remember this one for a long time.

 

[ssgligaspacksupply]

Sorry for your loss friend. Thank you for keeping us posted and sharing the results. I will remember this one for a long time.

yeah its so heart breaking. Gotta find someone w clean genetics too now to replace smh. Appreciate your thoughts

 

[Ca++]

This looks very much like a poor air quality situation.
Usually we see poor air linked to combustion based CO2 generation. Many CO2 users have lost crops to combustion byproducts.
The buildings past use, including the grounds outside, could lead to a contaminate. Being so isolated to just your building, I might check mining reports and even radon gas levels locally. Perhaps local geology makes you say upon a vent.
You can buy an air quality meter for $20 that gives 4 or 5 readings, but I would perhaps hire one from a lab supplies place that does quite a bit more.

Do you yourself feel different working there, or when you leave? A little light headed or short on breath exerting yourself?

Combustion based kit runs less in warm weather, and this problem doesn't follow seasons, that I read. Where does the prevailing wind blow from? Paint shop?

 

[Hookah79]

This looks very much like a poor air quality situation.
Usually we see poor air linked to combustion based CO2 generation. Many CO2 users have lost crops to combustion byproducts.
The buildings past use, including the grounds outside, could lead to a contaminate. Being so isolated to just your building, I might check mining reports and even radon gas levels locally. Perhaps local geology makes you say upon a vent.
You can buy an air quality meter for $20 that gives 4 or 5 readings, but I would perhaps hire one from a lab supplies place that does quite a bit more.

Do you yourself feel different working there, or when you leave? A little light headed or short on breath exerting yourself?

Combustion based kit runs less in warm weather, and this problem doesn't follow seasons, that I read. Where does the prevailing wind blow from? Paint shop?

Well the building has been out of commission for the last 4 months since a tree fell on the power lines and caused damage to the building which needed repairs etc.The last batch got sick again and iam still getting a whiff of paint smell whenever I turned on the dehumidifiers and fans when i got the power back .I am trying to find someone locally to do an air quality test but finding someone that specializes in grows is slim picking.I wish i knew how to proceed next.

 

[Ca++]

The dehumidifiers make the smell used on their own, and the fans make the smell used on their own?

Ali will charge you $30 for a 9 in 1 air quality monitor. Others are specific for combustion based gas analysis. I wear a proper fancy one working in enclosed spaces. All can be hired, and you probably don't care about the cost.

 

[Hookah79]

Well fellas, the results for the VOC testing came back.According to the gentleman i spoke to,he said that the foam isn’t an issue.The test picked up 200 ppm of total VOC’s which again according to him is nothing out of ordinary .The foam scored a 3.4 is on the lower end of the odor chart.

There’s one particular VOC that Iam concerned about which i am thinking is the culprit.I want to see if anyone of you thinks the same before i point it out.

 

[Ca++]

The test says the insulation was not applied properly. Gassing off almost double of what it should. They gauge this in terms of how much people would smell it, but still, numerically, it's double what it should of been, if applied correctly.

Nothing beats a site visit, or plans at least. However, you have said the corridor outside the room seems fine. I would like to see the site, to assess if this corridor isn't exposed to insulation, or simply has air that's not been in the building so long.

There are three ways forward. They say to ditch the stuff and clean up with a specific thing.
I think sealing it in, such as we do with asbestos, should limit exposure massively.
At this point, I would be working tents in there. Tents that get fresh air from outside. There would still be bad air ingress from the negative pressure requirement, but a huge volume of the air the plants get would be piped in clean air.

These air samples don't really tell me the foam was the issue. Only that the foam is nearby. Floor and wall paints, and combustion sources, all need finding and thinking about.


I see a couple of undesirable chems on the list, but at low levels, which could be traffic. I didn't do chemistry though, so most just looks like long words, to me.

 

[Hookah79]

The test says the insulation was not applied properly. Gassing off almost double of what it should. They gauge this in terms of how much people would smell it, but still, numerically, it's double what it should of been, if applied correctly.

Nothing beats a site visit, or plans at least. However, you have said the corridor outside the room seems fine. I would like to see the site, to assess if this corridor isn't exposed to insulation, or simply has air that's not been in the building so long.

There are three ways forward. They say to ditch the stuff and clean up with a specific thing.
I think sealing it in, such as we do with asbestos, should limit exposure massively.
At this point, I would be working tents in there. Tents that get fresh air from outside. There would still be bad air ingress from the negative pressure requirement, but a huge volume of the air the plants get would be piped in clean air.

These air samples don't really tell me the foam was the issue. Only that the foam is nearby. Floor and wall paints, and combustion sources, all need finding and thinking about.


I see a couple of undesirable chems on the list, but at low levels, which could be traffic. I didn't do chemistry though, so most just looks like long words, to me.

Ca++, from my understanding of the chart i am not seeing how it's off gassing twice as much.It's showing the second lowest reading.Maybe you can help me understand that part.
I have a few plants in both rooms testing them as we speak.A few are in a small tent that is sealed with a tiny amount of outside air coming in.

The building was sitting idle for 5 months til i got the repairs done from the storms.Having tents there is nearly impossible.All the HVAC and lights are suspended off the ceiling.Sealing the ceiling insullation would be an option if possible,but then again this test isn't showing that my foam is terribe ?????.

Here is the other thing that got my curiosity..Did you see how i have about 15 ppm of Sulfur Dioxide????.The report says it could be more or less,but that is way too much in my opinion.The guy said that Sulfur Dioxide turns into Sulfuric Acid once it hits moisture/water.

Like i mentioned before i have 2 mechanic shops next to me and a pallet manufacturer that exhausts fumes about 250 feet behind me(the latter).I read studies that even 0.5 ppm of Sulfur Dioxide can ruin your plants.

LMK what you think...

 

[Three Berries]

Here's an article talking about the Sulfur Dioxide and the 30 microgram per cubic meter is the upper limit and though to be set too high.

https://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/123091/AQG2ndEd_10effso2.pdf

Sulfur Dioxide Damage to Plants

 

[Hookah79]

Here's an article talking about the Sulfur Dioxide and the 30 microgram per cubic meter is the upper limit and though to be set too high.

A Burning Question: Ethylene and Sulfur Dioxide Damage in the Greenhouse

I’ve had a handful of calls in the past few weeks asking me to identify poor air quality damage on spring bedding crops. Even if you have never had problems, the following is a good refresher on w…

onfloriculture.com

Yup the plants suffer foliar necrosis.Here's another article about Sulfur Dioxide and Ethelyne.

A Burning Question: Ethylene and Sulfur Dioxide Damage in the Greenhouse

I’ve had a handful of calls in the past few weeks asking me to identify poor air quality damage on spring bedding crops. Even if you have never had problems, the following is a good refresher on w…

onfloriculture.com

They're talking about 0.5 ppm of Sulfur Dioxide.

It's strange that the grower next door doesn't have these issues.But his rooms are plain cinderblocks without any insulation,and doesn't run correct VPD as rooms are dryer than normal.

 

[Three Berries]

More humid air would react with the SO2 to form more sulfuric acid. Perhaps a foliar basic spray of potassium bicarbonate to mitigate?

 

[Hookah79]

More humid air would react with the SO2 to form more sulfuric acid. Perhaps a foliar basic spray of potassium bicarbonate to mitigate?

You mean run it thru humidifiers???.

I’ve been trying to find ways to remove The sulfur Dioxide from the air,and so far I haven’t found any filters for it.Just a company that manufactures industrial equipment for removing it.The Air quality guy suggested running carbon activated filters which i already do.I already know those filters don’t remove gasses as such.This is the company i was referring to https://www.camfil.com/en/insights/...nce/can-we-remove-it/removing-sulphur-dioxide

I forgot to mention that the air quality test done took about 3.5 hours.I did 20 minute air exchange within the last hour of the test just to replicate the normal environment.

 

[Three Berries]

No I was thinking your situation may be worse because of higher humidity depositing sulfuric acid on the leaves. And some bicarbonate on the leaf surface would help mitigate the acid. There are test to use bicarbonates to actually react with the SO2 but usually in flue gas at high temps.

 

[Ca++]

The talk of spray foam, puts all levels, even <2, as being misapplied. With 3.5 you have near double of the 0-2 category of misapplication.

One issue I have with the first page, where sulphur dioxide is listed, is the lack of units. You are saying ppm, but I don't know why. I reference not to nanograms. PPB.

0.5ppm = 500ppb and you have 4ppb. Though I wouldn't bet even a dollar on that, as the document is barely legible.

 

[Three Berries]

Below the comment section on the SO2 line is shows 5.6 ppb as their value.