Colorado Medical Marijuana Analytical Lab

[veta]

THC and highland have been hugh supporters from the start. I recommend either of their places. Jason at highland has many strains all of which are tested. Ryan over at THC is currently testing everything that comes in (I believe) and is very active in de-bunking the edible/oral market. He sends me probably 10 oral samples a week. Many are very low in cannabinoid content, i would say 1 in 10 is a "quality" product. There are 3 other dispensaries that are begging to test everything, once I get the ok from them they will be on the web site. Testing is a very touchy subject in CO, but it slowly gaining acceptance. Patients love it, growers are scared of it and dispensaries don't want to pay for it.

You are going to see our testing poping up in alot of places. Westworld is doing "secret shopping" on dispenciaries in CO and we have offered to do testing on the shopped products for free. We are also going to begin testing for 420 mag in co. We are also in the process of signing a agreement with a representative of 200 dispensaries in CA. The lab is built to handle large scale testing, and is truely open to public. We are not affiliated with any dispensary, growing group, or co-op. So patients talk to your caregivers and ask for tested product. We are as impartial a source as you will find.

My lab can handle 4000 samples a month, and we do a 3-5 day turnaround. All for 60$ when bulk tests are purchased. There really isn't a better deal around. I have tried very hard to make things a inexpensive and accurate as I can.

Its coming guys, whether people want it or not. I predict within a year it will be the standard in colorado.

 

[Trend]

I'm in...This is the exact thing this market needs.

 

[Strainhunter]

......

Once you have reached "PM-capability" I have a question for ya.

 

[Ms_Weekend]

and is very active in de-bunking the edible/oral market. He sends me probably 10 oral samples a week. Many are very low in cannabinoid content, i would say 1 in 10 is a "quality" product.

See I have a problem with testing edibles for % of cannabinoids.....its not as simple as buds which all weigh the same....1 edible dose can be a 5 gram candy, or a 1/2lb piece of cheesecake......say both have 1 gram of 100% thc hash.......the candy is going to test at 20% thc while the cheesecake is only going to test at 0.5% thc......but they both have the same amount/quality of hash, & both doses will work exactly the same.


Correct?

so you guys would say the cheese cake is a bunk edible, when in fact its just as strong?

I just cant see how your test would be worth while on an edible when there is no set dosage, & all edibles are completely different strengths / dosage / weight.

or do you guys factor all this in some how, and give an estimate of bud/hash weight in each dose of edible?....thats the only way I could see this working, so you could figure out how much the edible is "worth"


*edit* also how can you tell if the thc is "activated" in the edible or not....that could play a huge role if it wasnt brought up to the right temp for consumption.....just another thought from this crazy mind of mine



I fully support testing buds because they are bought/sold by weight, just cant see how you can get a reliable test for edibles.

 

[j-fly]

could you post a sample of what the test results look like? Also what is the strongest strain you have tested so far? Why dont you post the results on your site so that patients know which strains to use for their conditions?

 

[veta]

Ms Weekend, for edibles we report mg of each cannabinoid in the item, not a %. For example I just got done testing a brownie that weight 43 grams. We reported to the baker the total mg of CBD, CBDA, CDN, THC and THCA in the sample. We also give the relative ratio of each cannabinoid in the item, just like in the raw plant sample.

You are 100% right that there really isn't a good scale for edibles, or for smokeable for that matter. Mostly because no one has made one yet. We just happen to be doing so at the moment. We are currently formulating defined cannnbinoid deliver methods, inorder to put some numbers to users experience. I can tell you that 20 mg of ACTIVE cannabinoids (85% THC) is a good dose for a novice. 40-60 mg is a good dose for a "regular" (4-5 times a week) user. Heavy users can take anywhere from 80-120 mg!!! Of course body mass, sample matrix, and cannabinoid ratio all and many other factors play in too. But this is the beginning of what we are coming to call the "Larimer Street Scale" for edibles. (Our lab is on Larimer Street)

Most of the items that hit the lab have 5-10mg of ACTIVE cannabinoids, some of the larger food items hit the 20-30 mg mark. The sadist things I see are the tinctures, where to get 10-20 mg of cannabinoids one would have to consume 5-10 mls sometimes, often this works out to be almost half of the bottle. The silliest thing I see is all the 1X 2X 3X or level 1 level 2 level 3 BS. Some times these scales are not even internally consistent, meaning I test a 1x and 3x item from the same manufacture and they contain almost the same amount of cannabinoids. Even worse, almost every item is only 60-70 active cannabinoid. Meaning 30-40% of the plant material added to the item is wasted.

The control items we are working on are all >95% active. By this I mean it is in the "neutral" not the "acid" form. Only the "neutral forms are psychoactive. This is the true strength of our HPLC method, as a GC-MS can not give you a active:inactive ratio.

@j-fly...we dont post test results on the site because they are the confidential information of the clients that pay for them. This is their private information to do with as they please. I can say we have tested raw plant ranging from 5% to about 21% THC (if you assume it would all be converted to the active for when smoked, which is a faulty assumption, but one that has been assumed for a long while) We have tested hash in the range of 22% to an incredible 48% THC (again assuming 100% conversion to the active form)

Strain names are pretty meaning less these days. Blueberry from one source can be very different from blueberry from another. We even see 2-5% differences between plants in the same indoor harvest. What really matters is not the big THC numbers, but the ratio of cannabinoids. They are what truly determine the effect of the product. In all honestly most people could not tell the difference of a 15% and 19% plant, both contain so much THC that you probably are all ready inhaling a max amount.

 

[j-fly]

What is the ratio of cannaboids? I didnt think strain names were usless. I know things can vary, i was just wondering what are some of the most potent strains you have tested. In amsterdam they said to get over 20% thc you had to have a haze cross. Im new to the testing stuff. what is this ratio all about

 

[Lord Doobie]

white widow used to be one of the most potent...probably still is
you don't want to waste 40% of the THC smoking anyway....Vaporize instead for a much more healthy and efficient use of the herb you spent so long growing

 

[Surrender]

Can the lab tell if a sample was improperly flushed prior to harvest?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

If anyone here can help me gauge what interest the colorado community might have in an analytical laboratory that specializes in cannabis quality control.
veta

Hello Veta,

I know myself and many others are very interested in working with a lab to accomplish chromatography tests on all of our medicine. I applaud your efforts and would like to work with you on thie project. Please let me know the details. You can reach me here at ICMAG or at my email at: [email protected]

Thanks and have a great day,
-BhT

 

[cobcoop]

or a 1/2lb piece of cheesecake......

Now that's a merry christmas!

 

[veta]

What is the ratio of cannaboids? I didnt think strain names were usless. I know things can vary, i was just wondering what are some of the most potent strains you have tested. In amsterdam they said to get over 20% thc you had to have a haze cross. Im new to the testing stuff. what is this ratio all about

When I speak of the "cannabinoid ratio" I am talking about the relative ratios of the various cannabinoids in the plant. We currently assay for 5 cannabinoids, and will be testing for 3 more by Jan 1. To calculate the ratio we sum up all the cannabinoids in the sample then divide the each individual amount by the total. This allows us to start to talk about the cannabinoid profile as a total, instead of just THC for instance. This is a better way to talk about material as different ratios dramatically change the effects of the plant. For instance a 10% CDB, 0.5% CBN, 78% THC plant is VERY different from a 0.5% CDB, 0.5% CBN, 95% THC plant.

This also gets into why strain names are almost meaningless. Anyone can call any plant anything. There is no way really for you to know with certainty that the strain of Kush is actually a Kush strain or something else. In a way it doesn't really matter, as what you are really interested in are the characteristics that make up the plant. Taste, smell, water content, and for effect...the cannabinoid profile. I have patients out here that no longer shop by name or smell but by cannabinoid profile. The profile is effected greatly by the genitics of the plant, but also by how it is growen, how it is harvested, how it is cured and on and on. So just becuse you have Kush doesn't mean your kush has the same profile as my Kush. Does that make sense?

@ Lord D..vaporizing is better no doubt, but I have yet to see scientific hard data that vaporizing doesnt destroy X % of the cannabinoids, or even how good at converting cannabinoids from inactive to active it is. This is the big problem with this industry, there are lots of "truths" out there that have no "data" to back it up. If you have data on vaporization id like to see it. We just got a very nice GC-MS in part to do this kind of study. I am not a fan of smokeing MMJ to begin with, but I understand why alot of people do it. It is much easier to control dosage. We hope that our controlled formulations will eventually allow people to medicated in a different way.

@Big. I will have betty contact you today.

@surrender. Not really, and do it would be very costly. We do offer pesticide screening though.

 

[Ms_Weekend]

thanks for the answer veta.......kinda clears it up.....& keep doing the good work!......anxiously awaiting my results

 

[Surrender]

Seems like we need a startup to start running genetic analysis and cataloging all the strains out there.

 

[veta]

Seems like we need a startup to start running genetic analysis and cataloging all the strains out there.

We have been trying to set up a DNA Fingerprinting technique in the lab. Trying to genetically identify different strain is a very big and complex issue. It is one thing to be able to identify clones which all come from the same mother (IE when you truly clone the plant). This is working with out problems, it is another to be able to identify crosses and selfing of strains. Every time you seed, the primer pairs change. It is something we are chasing in house right now, but I cant say more than that.

 

[alphaguru]

so doesn't this meant that you can acquire clone only genetics, such as og kush, arcata ttrainwreck etc....., and possibly certify clones as being authentic or not?

 

[veta]

For true "clones" yes. If the same plant has been cut and rooted and re grown, then yes. If it went to seed or was grown from seed, then it becomes less clear. Eventually I am sure we will be able to track liniage, but we need to identify primer pairs that will work. This is not a easy process.

We are also working very hard right now to get our cannabinoid testing service accepted and bring mold/fungus and pesticide screening to market. I feel in the new year I will be able to devote more resources to the fingerprinting project.

What I can say is be very cautious of people making claims they can certify genetics. It is not easy or straight forward. There are a number of very good people working on the problem, and I have yet to see a method that I would place my money or reputation behind.

 

[guest123]

Veta, I was curious if you tested the content of Nitrogen, Magnesium etc in the samples you test. It seems it would be very easy to identify samples that aren't flushed well enough.

This kind of test, as well as the mold test, is more useful information than THC content is IMO.

 

[veta]

I'm not sure you could see a significant difference of Nitrogen, Mag, ect on a dried sample of bud. We have a GC-MS that can test for these components, but the question is would people pay 100$ to know this information? We are developing a menu of testing options right now we have

Cannabinoid Profile
Water Content
Mold/Fungus
Pesticide Screen

In the works:
DNA Profile
Terpinoid Profile
Trace Element Analysis (for hydro feed)

The problem is that everyone wants this data but no one wants to pay for it. Well everyone wants someone else to pay for it. We are starting to list dispensaries that test 100% of their products on our website. We are also going to start listing the "best of" from our dispensaries. Basically we have to help the community to understand the value of this data.

If people think of any other services they might want let me know and ill see if it is possible.

 

[Lazyman]

Man this is a cool thread, I love the idea. I have a buddy taking organic chem, his lab has 5 GC's but the working ones don't go over 200*C, so we can't do the tests on my hash we wanted.

In a couple months I'd probably be able to send you 3-5 samples a month, it would help my case when selling to clubs.