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Noonin NorCal

Noonin NorCal

Active member
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RckyMtRdnk said:
New toy for tea brewin... Aerates a hundred gallon tank pretty well it seems like to me.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=59693&pictureid=1453433&=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=59693&pictureid=1453435&=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=59693&pictureid=1453434&=1]View Image[/url]
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Looks tits. We recently set up a drip to the GH finally, we ran our first run of tea and had problems with it not dripping, seems like it kept clogging the filter. we had to clean the filter constantly. I think it took close to 2 + hours for 20 gallons of tea? We run Boogie Brew its a two part tea.... Thanks
 
Seaf0ur

Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
Veteran
with teas less can be more... you're not making nutrients... you're breeding microbes (EDIT: rereading your post... you may be trying to make a nutrient tea as opposed to an aerated compost tea... in which case disregard...)

Take kelp for instance... it can inhibit microbe growth for a time... not to say that it shouldnt be used, you'd just need slightly longer brew times... some of those ingredients may initially work against a microbial extrapolation... it still makes a nice nutrient tea, but microbeman spends enough time with his face in a microscope for me to both take, and recommend, his advice on the subject...

http://www.microbeorganics.com/#What_is_Compost_Tea_
 
Seaf0ur

Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
Veteran
microbemans recipe is written in his way... lol ... which can be a bit technical at times.... but this is relevant...

MicrobeMan said:
In case I have not been clear enough above, our goal in making ACT is to extract, multiply and grow mostly aerobic microorganisms in as large a diversity as possible and inclusive of three basic groups; bacteria/archaea, protozoa [flagellates & naked amoebae] and fungi. (Some [vermi]compost will contain rotifers which are extracted into ACT. These cycle nutrients in similar fashion to protozoa and are a bonus if present.)

Making ACT is not about putting in ingredients which directly benefit the plants. The foodstocks used are strictly to feed or benefit the microorganisms which in turn benefit the plants.

When I jumped on the compost tea bandwagon years back I utilized the whole gambit of ingredients recommended by the current (at that time) supposed authorities. These ingredients or foodstocks included, humic acid, kelp meal, black strap molasses, baby oatmeal (oat flour), fish hydrolysate, alfalfa meal, etc. We used variations of these ingredients in our 1200 gallon ACT maker on our farm and microscopic observation showed success.

I also experimented with using some rock/clay powders as ingredients and observed differences in the microbial make up which had positive results applied to the soil and plants. The types used were mostly soft rock phosphate and pyrophyllite.

Along the line somewhere we left humic acid out of a brew and noticed an increase in microbial numbers so we stopped using it ourselves but, possibly irresponsibly, I continued to recommend it because the ‘bigwigs’ did so. It was not until I devised a method to test each foodstock independently that I began to change my tune and begin to go against the grain of the contemporary experts.

By testing some ingredients independently in a liquid I observed;

1/ that humic acid in varying dilutions does not feed any sort of microscopically visible microbe. I observed that it actually suppresses microbial division and growth. This was confirmed by joint testing with Keep It Simple Inc. (KIS) in the Seattle area. We tested two of the most effective and popular brands. I cannot say definitively that all brands of humic acid will have similar suppressive effects in a liquid (ACT) but it is enough for me to discontinue using it or recommending it as an ACT foodstock. Please note that this does not mean that it is not good to use on/in soil….just not ACT.

2/ that kelp meal initially delays all microbial development in a liquid but does feed fungi and bacteria/archaea following 24 hours. If too much is used the effects are suppressive. From this I garnered that it should be used very sparingly and one must be prepared to brew a little longer if using this foodstock. Again, this does not mean that kelp meal is not a good thing to use in/on soil. It definitely is!

3/ black strap molasses (BSM) feeds both bacteria/archaea and fungi equally well contrary to what the A(A)CT aficionados were saying. The story was that BSM feeds only bacteria. This led to all sorts of misconceptions, even including ones made by USDA and Canada Agriculture scientists who declared that using molasses in ACT could lead to e-coli contamination. It is utter nonsense. Besides the testing I have done and ratifying assays carried out by KIS, it is common knowledge amongst many mycologists like Paul Stamets that BSM grows out fungal hyphae just fine.

4/ fish hydrolysate feeds both fungi and bacteria/archaea again contrary to the story at the time that it is mainly a fungal food. (I’m glad to see that story has now changed)

5/ alfalfa meal is also a decent all round foodstock which sometimes introduces protozoa cysts to the ACT. KIS has done more testing on this than I have.


The result of all this is that my attitude towards recipes for ACT has really evolved over the years with a trend towards the more simple. I know that there are a lot of people who place importance on creating a bacterial or fungal dominant ACT. At one time I myself was so influenced, however, the more I’ve learned and unlearned about living soil and a functioning microbial population interacting with plants, the more I’ve been led to allow the soil and plants to decide which microbes are actively needed by the rhizosphere team. What this means is that 9 times out of 10 I’m trying to create a balanced ACT with a decent ratio of the three basic microbial groups. When this hits the soil, some will go dormant to wake up later and some will be immediately put into action at the direction of the needs of the soil and plants.

The exceptions to this may be if I am attempting to battle a particular pathogen and want to attack it with a heavy fungal or bacterial (or a combo) ACT. In these situations some tweaking of recipes and timing can be helpful. If attempting these variations, a microscope is really the only way to confirm the desired microbial population. I have outlined some recipes which may trend towards a certain microbial group (or combo) or may assist with certain pathogens.
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Basically, hes saying there is limited success with crazy recipes containing many ingredients, but the most effective brew was more simple due to complex reactions that actually slow microbial growth viewed through his microscope... he actually has the patent on the tea brewer... he's the authority on the subject for sure with many many microscope hours...

100 gallons is a nice round number... 2.38% equals 2.38 lol...

that would be:

38 cup [US] Vermicompost
8 cup [US] Molasses
4 cup [US] Kelp
1 cup [US] Fish Hydrolysate (optional)
1 cup [US] Soft Rock Phosphate (optional)

With the optional additions, brew time should average around 36 hours and no longer than 48 hours. If you have a microscope then stop when the microbes desired are observed. Otherwise smell for the foodstocks being used up, possible rank odor (indicating anaerobes) and a positive earthy or mushroom-like aroma.
 
U

unregistered190

Senior
Veteran
Thanks for posting them links C4.....just skimmed thru the unconventional gardener site :yoinks: found instructions for bunches of good stuff. BOOKMARKED
 
S

sourpuss

Hope my question helped.... not annoyed.... seems like u might get more from less... I have no clue was just curious what was going on... keeprollin....
 
Seaf0ur

Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
Veteran
no... cant have it all... but a worm bin is pretty plug and play long as you dont drown them lol...

he also recommends only applying teas a few times in a growth season... teas are almost always bacterial heavy... and overuse tends to lean favor to bacteria but soil fungus does not generally get the same boost.... bacteria and fungi being oppositely acidic and alkaline, favoring one too often can shift ph slightly... generally wont "hurt" and everything will still grow... you wouldnt even know without a side by side going on... but its not the "optimal" situation that some try to achieve... I personally like to take some ewc, and put it on a small plate... get it wet and cover it with a sprinkle of single grain powdered baby oatmeal covered with a paper towel for a day and a half keeping it moist... under the moist paper towel becomes a fungus ball... do that first and toss that in the brewer... you'll bump up the fungal in a real discernible way...
 
Seaf0ur

Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
Veteran
I know who has the knowledge I can trust in various subjects anyhow...

bringing the PM to the thread.... its not often I like to write a book and I'm sure others share your question...

RckyMtRdnk said:
I'm pretty sure I heard microbeman himself say on the Adam Dunn show that you could use tea all the time and it couldn't be over used. Not just once or twice a year.
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I'm guessing that'd be more likely coot... I'm pretty sure hes been on there...
and it's true that it cannot be overused like a bottled product in that it wont do damage when overused...
remember... I'm talking in terms of things that are verified as most effective under a microscope... things in the "not absolutely perfect" but close range still give good results... I'm just sharing what I know out of his years of work... he admits in what I referenced via quote that he was once fooled with excess ingredients and over time with the microscope to his face, he came to the most optimum, most effective way to brew a microbial extrapolation of the 3 main types of beneficial aerobic microorganisms in the highest concentrations possible...
then he got a patent on the vortex style compost brewer as it is also the most effective...
he's a solid good dude... with valuable advice... best of all, he's not a douche or an asshole like some of the other "gurus" who have come and gone...

As for me... what I consider most effective, you have a rich soil... give it a tea to kick start it when you plant...

this is mine
16295816005_6ec14dcd37_b.jpg


topdress occasionally...
nutrient tea here and there...
steeped alfalfa with kelp for veg... I aerate... lots of N and triacontanol in alfalfa...never use in flower and go real easy... it can burn
I use kelp in this fashion as well during flower...
I use sprouted seed teas in vast excess, almost every watering... its mixed in foliars, its a portion of any base water I use for anything... I seriously start a SST daily almost... generally 2 are going at a time in differing schedules...
round flower time, gotta make that ACT... flood the soil with microbes so they jump start a rapid release of nutrients in plant usable form at the time I want maximum available... I then go back to SST's in my constant regimen.
one more time I use an ACT whenever I recycle soil with re-amendments....
reamend is the original items in halved amounts.

I trust in root exudates to do what they want in most cases...
in veg I do some foliars with neem at 1tsp/gal emulsified with agsil16h...
I use rosemary and lemongrass oils generally in the 1ml/1gal range dash of agsil mixed in...

agsil16h is a bulk powder product.
I pre mix 150 grams in a 1 liter bottle... that makes something very very similar to protekt but much cheaper.

cant really think of no more...
 
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