cohiba "mom" of white widow?

[Huesos]

Saludos Maestro.....Bendiciones.

 

[ClearBarbedFunk]

Hola buddy, damn been so long. Back on CW Nick was Thai Die, good to see ya out and about

 

[Castroman]

Thanks Idiit for originating this thread, Charlie for acting as a facilitator, and Stash, Clips, CTG, Bigsur, Huesos and Thai Die for stopping by say hello! It's so good to see all of you guys... the memories taste even better now after the long cure! Would any of you have imagined today's scene back then? Not only Colorado, but closer to me even Uruguay legalizing? I sure did not.

I wish I could cap this thread sending each of you Cohiba beans for the electric 19-hour electric pheno as a reunion gift, but that one (and all other beans indeed) is long lost. Morale of the story: never think of your girlfriends' freezer as 'safe storage'. I was so bummed about all those years of work flushed down the drain (literally, that's what she did) that I didn't feel like getting at it again until a few days ago that I "casually" started browsing... and I found this thread. The timing is interesting too, because I am forced now to rebuild my life from scratch, and so the timing of this re-introduction is very appropriate. Because you guys know this hobby is only a metaphor, right? It's Green Alchemy, breed the plant until you find the best pheno... of yourself!

(now if I could only find 48 other interesting thoughts to fill the 50 posts needed to reclaim my right to private free speech)

 

[idiit]

we don't have the 18 hr. electric pheno isolated but we do have castroman cohiba saved; stash, kaiki (cbg) iirc and myself.

I also have the Paraguay cohiba kinda saved; I only had a male Paraguay cohiba and used it in a cross with a mediocre at best white widow. i'm bx'ing and pheno selecting out of the ww/Paraguay cohiba progeny I called '98 as it was an attempt to reinvigorate ww and see if cohiba ( paraguay in my case) was the real mom of '98 aww. shanti got the cohiba from a brazilan grower so it would seem likely that it was the brazilian cohiba that was used but I only had the Paraguay cohiba.

I ran '98 ( ww/Paraguay cohiba) and when I smoked it my one thought was THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT!. tastes like cotton candy, has a long lasting very pleasant energetic up stone. pretty good bag appeal. '98 is the only strain that I think "this is what they want" while smoking her.

get your post count up here at ic and you get private messaging priveleges and all the fun starts.

tokers den in forums is the place to go and get your post count up.

I actually later on got the real deal aww from jojo's run( not the tired out male everyone else was using) from stash. got a keeper female that looks to turn purple in cold induced conditions., am running clones of this cut ( purple jojo aww) that I call paw ( purple aww). jojos aww has some skunk in her so she really isn't ww; aww is ww/skunk with ww dom. paw has indica bud formation with a sativa high and aww bag appeal. i'm making a lot of crosses off paw.

the Paraguay cohiba is one of my favorite smokes and i'v posted about her several times.

 

[Mustafunk]

Good to see all the old board members showing up and still active. Same with teh good ol' strains. Mad respect.

Vibes Collective is still here alive and well too besides most members are dispersed, but many of us are still getting busy at the lab nowadays.

Long life to the oldschool legacy, let's keep with the heritage and the old spirit for the upcoming generations.

 

[kokomarin]

my seeds stash also gone long time ago 98 by police.pause of growing was 15years and still every day I remenber thet catastrofic lost.
this year I try some commercial seeds strains,but also still prefer african landrace.
once I by kilo in Port harcourt,nigeria,give half to frend who went Rio,brasil, he told me ,
girls come to ship,smoke joint,then four of six collapsed,and ambulance come to ship.
tomorow,owner of girls came on ship to try change gram coca per gram africa.

 

[idiit]

So I wonder which version your beans are, did you experience a pheno that is early flowering, has a tobacco-like taste and a killer electric high that is ridiculously long lasting?

The sad thing is I lost the line (long story) years ago so I have no recent experiences with it. Here's info from back in the day, posting here in case it helps:

COHIBA:

Just an update grow report. Had let Cohiba reach 1 to 1.5 feet under fluorescents before moving to the flowering room, all six were very compact and healthy at time, about six/seven leaf sets when put into flower. Should have put them in sooner, they have been in flower around four weeks now. They are in a hydroponic system, with 1/2 vermiculite and 1/2 perlite, top fed for 15 mins every four hours during the 12 hour light cycle. They are now 3 to 4 feet tall, all very, very healthy and putting on some heavy buds. Out of four seeds, six are females still in flower, the two males were trimmed and put back into 24 hour light to revert to veg stage until needed. All four females look very similar, a compact Christmas tree shape that reminds me very much of the way skunk plants grow. Most buds on side branches are around 1 inch long, main cola around 3 inch long. Growth pattern of buds is very, very good. Buds continue to grow outward and form new bud clusters on the end of branches, while at the same time older clusters continue to grow wider and thicker in all directions. Very well suited for indoor cultivation. If current growth continues, would predict 2 to 3 oz per plant if finished at 8 to 10 weeks. Crystal production visible, but not yet developed or heavy -with very heavy sativa influence it may not show up heavy until later of flowering, sure hope so. Breeding will depend on some clones waiting to root now, if they go well, will let the main plants finish up as sinsemilla, then seed clones later. If any problem with clones, will seed selected branches on main plant. Should have some Cohiba F2s, Cohiba x Nam Black, and Cohiba x African Zambian in a few months. Later, CloneKing / Puresativa.

Just adding a little extra info for you. One of the reasons I was so surprised with the Brazilian phenotype was because of the other strains growing in the same setup. Along with the Cohiba are:

Sensi Star by Paradise Seeds - near 100% indica, 50 - 60 days indoors. Blueberry by Sagamartha, Dutch Passion and BCGA, 80% indica, 45 - 55 days indoors. Heavy Duty Fruity by British Columbia Seed Company, 90%+ indica. 60 days Critical Mass by MR. Nice, 90%+ indica, around 60 days. All of these mostly indica plants are classic indica shape and developement. Short, tight, lots of cystals. They also have very alive and healthy hairs. No sign yet of indica hairs dying or buds finishing.

Same with the Columbian and Paraguayan Cohiba. That is why I was totally shocked to look at the Brazilian Cohiba and see most early hairs have died and buds beginning to ripen. An 82% sativa plant that grows like a skunk, but starts finishing before near 100% indicas? That is something I have never seen before.

If I understand you correctly, you are telling me that it was a Brazilian sativa that gave this pheno such early flowering. Amazing. Is there any 100% sativa strains available in your area with the short flowering Brazilian genes? I see very great breeding potential with other tropical sativas. Crossing strains like Nam Black, Thai, Cambodian, Malawi Gold, Haze, etc, with Brazilian could make 100% sativa strains finish quickly in colder climates and indoors. Just ranting. Got to go see if the Cohiba sample buds are dry yet. CloneKing - Puresativa

Cohiba phenos report: Different phenotypes are showing up now in flowering. Appears to be three:

Brazilian pheno (1 plant), seems to be finishing very, very early. Stretch of buds appear to have stopped, now buds growing in tight, round indica like ball buds. This plant showing best crystal development. Negative side is that final yeild now looks like it will be small.

Paraguayan pheno (1 plant). Stretch of main cola has stopped, now tip is growing round and whole cola growing fatter. Smaller side branches still have sharp tips. Calyxes swelling to good size, turning silver with crystals. Looking like pictures of AK47 I have seen.

Colombian pheno (2 plants). All buds tips still pointed and stretching. Calyxes not yet swelling, crystals not yet developed. With luck, these two are just slower finishers and will start showing crystal developement in the next few weeks.

With only 12.5% Indian Curry indica, I'm very surprised two phenos are showing they may finish in 60 days or less.

Note: First batch of cutting taking too long to root. On tight schedule to shut down before hard mid July heat hits. Males are back in flowering and will pollinate select side branches when male flowers pop.

Cohiba - early smoke test. Reported by Cloneking - Puresativa.
General Comments: a) Samples taken at six weeks into flowering. b) Four females, two Columbian pheno, one each of Paraguayan and Brazilian phenos. c) Both Columbian phenos very similar. d) Sample dried naturally over two days. Not proper cure, but did greatly reduce 'green' taste. e). Samples taken from lowest, most undeveloped branches.

1.Cohiba of Columbian phenotype (two plants): Early flowering, all pistils still alive and vibrant. Classic spear shaped buds. Buds not very dense, some oldest calyxes swell, but not many.

Crystals - None on sun leaves, starting to show on smallest bud leaves, best on main cola.

Smoke taste - Light, slight earthy, natural tobacco like taste. Smooth.

High - Very good and strong, even at early flowering. Energetic, electric feeling. Could be paranoid for new smoker, not a problem for me. Most special part of high is the length. Went to bed five hours after two small one hitters, was very high. Woke up eight hours later, 11 hours after smoking, still feeling good buzz and had a high hangover. Eat, drank, slept more, and exercise to wear out high before going to work. High finally gone 13 hours after smoking. Finished buds might be weekend weed only.

Final yield prediction - should be good, three more weeks may harvest around 50 dry grams per plant.

Breeding potential- EXCELLENT. Will be main breeding stock.

2. Cohiba of Brazilian phenotype: Very advanced flowering, end of main cola and side branches have most pistols dead and dried, calyxes very swollen and finishing ripening. Buds will be small, but very dense and hard, like indica.

Crystals: Very advanced and thick. Most developed of all phenos.

Smoke taste: Thick, hash taste.

High: First, heavy indica stone sets in. Time for couch and relaxing. After around two hours heavy stone wears off, leaving a strong, long lasting sativa energy high. Very strong.

Final yield prediction: very small, maybe 20 grams total.

Breeding potential Low interest. Will breed some seeds to save short flower gene for later breeding experiments. Looks like could be harvested at 40 days of flowering. Might be able to improve yield is start flowering at two weeks of vegetation.

Note: You said this is unusually short pheno, maybe a genetic mutation.

3. Cohiba of Paraguayan phenotype: Main cola no longer pointed, getting round and thick. Most side branch buds still pointed. Bud growth slowing down. Calyxes swelling very large, even though pistils are still very alive and healthy.

Crystals: Very thick and developed on calyxes as they swell. Buds looking almost silver.

Smoke taste: Earthy, tobacco like taste. Stronger taste than Columbian, with slight hash under taste.

High: Level, even high. Around even level of indica body stone and sativa head stone. Good high, constant, level for several hours.

Final yield prediction: Think it will be best yielder, 80+ grams.

Breeding potential: Low. Yield and appearance is best, but high was only good. Will breed some seeds, in case finished buds are much stronger.

Conclusions: Will breed two Columbian females with two males for majority of seeds. Can understand why your friends may think finished Cohiba is too strong. Columbian Cohiba at six weeks was much more powerful than Nam Black buds at 10 weeks. Finished Columbian buds may be VERY strong.

Best sativa I have grown so far is Hawaiian Sativa from Federation in Canada. Many posters on Cannabis Culture forum say Hawaiian Sativa is among the strongest of any they have tried. I personally rate it around 7th strongest. If my old HS clone can be tempted to grow some more fresh flowers, will try breeding the Cohiba to it. No promises on that, the clone is getting old. Many congratulations on your breeding program. If the finished buds come out like I expect, Cohiba should be top grade. Easy match to the best seed bank strains and better than most. Agree with you that Cohiba x Cohiba should give best pheno combinations. The two Nam Black phenos I saved have fresh lemon smell and taste I love. Will try breeding Nam Black x Cohiba to see if I can get plants with lemon taste and Cohiba power and shorter flowering time.

castroman

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=264116&page=26

 

[Dropped Cat]

subbed.

 

[grouchy]

subbed.

This^^^

I have wanted to start a micro breeding project to find something special I could adapt to my short headroom, high power led environment. From the sounds of the conversation in this thread I believe it may be a valuable resource of knowledge and experience, even if I only lurk.

 

[idiit]

I recently harvested a pheno from castroman cohiba/Paraguay cohiba. she is the frostiest landrace I've experienced and looks to be as frosty as any pure landrace sativa I've seen pics. of. the taste is identical to the taste of some phenos of aww I've grown out; exactly the same. it's a unique almost bitter, almost biting hashy taste.


she is a recessive pheno. I've run over 30 castroman cohiba/Paraguay beans after I was so pleased with the "gator" pheno and did not get one seedling that was as nld in seedling stage as "gator".


this pheno is a nld cohiba:

I will post pics later when I grow out the clones from her outdoors.




based on frost and taste there is plenty to suspect that the mom of white widow is a cohiba pheno. castroman has reported that there is a Brazilian cohiba strain. the one thing that leaves doubt in my mind is the high. the cohiba phenos I've harvested are usually pretty heavy sativa highs. the aww I've grown usually have a much more typical sativa up, energetic type high effect. jojo's aww is actually an ww with some skunk genetics added so the aww high effects might be influenced by an energetic skunk in the genetic mix. I don't have experience with another good ww to compare high effects.


there are some aww phenos that are very sweet tasting. I have a aww from jojo seed stock that is exceptionally sweet tasting. I have run one cohiba/ww pheno that tasted like cotton candy. then there are some aww phenos with an almost acrid hashy/earth taste identical to most of the cohibas I've run.

this special cohiba I now have as clones and mom re-vegged is also very potent. extremely potent, very frosty and the exact same unique earthy hashy almost acrid taste I found in some jojo aww phenos I've run.

 

[blue_tick]

subbed

 

[growingcrazy]

In for this one. WW has been a strain I have been chasing since I had my first taste. I still can't believe this thread came together.

 

[idiit]

^^ we don't have the father. neither does shanti iirc. one could reinvigorate run down ww strains though with an infusion of cohiba.

I took a ww freebe that lacked anything remarkable and crossed it with the paraguay cohiba pollen and got an excellent result.

the gator cohiba is exceptionally strong re potency and extremely frosty. it's going to be a lot of fun to work with. i'm working on getting a great male that matches the gator female to make some nice beans. i'd like to send these up to the server fund so all could partake. haven't found a great male yet.

 

[Mustafunk]

A nice quite from Castroman himself on the origin of his cohiba hybrid:

Just wanted to share this shot for its sheer beauty: a ladybug visiting the flowering top of a Cohiba (a mix of Paraguayan, Brazilian and Columbian sativas with a touch of Indica for lower flowering time).

I entered that quote on Cannagenetics, it is from a private message I got from Cloneking / PureSativa in 2002 when he first tested the Cohiba, a mostly sativa bred by me. PureSativa is right on the money, with its ultra-strong heady effect and long lasting high, Cohiba is top grade indeed. I don't know who made or sold those C-Bay beans, but I still have original Cohiba beans in case anybody is interested

 

[Bob Green]

Outstanding thread people. I love seeing old friends meeting up again exchanging stories and info!

Reminds me of a piece of Heaven

 

[Castroman]

I recently harvested a pheno from castroman cohiba/Paraguay cohiba. she is the frostiest landrace I've experienced and looks to be as frosty as any pure landrace sativa I've seen pics of. the taste is identical to the taste of some phenos of aww I've grown out; exactly the same. it's a unique almost bitter, almost biting hashy taste.

Based on frost and taste there is plenty to suspect that the mom of white widow is a Cohiba pheno. castroman has reported that there is a Brazilian cohiba strain. the one thing that leaves doubt in my mind is the high. the cohiba phenos I've harvested are usually pretty heavy sativa highs. the aww I've grown usually have a much more typical sativa up, energetic type high effect. jojo's aww is actually an ww with some skunk genetics added so the aww high effects might be influenced by an energetic skunk in the genetic mix. I don't have experience with another good ww to compare high effects.

there are some aww phenos that are very sweet tasting. I have a aww from jojo seed stock that is exceptionally sweet tasting. I have run one cohiba/ww pheno that tasted like cotton candy. then there are some aww phenos with an almost acrid hashy/earth taste identical to most of the cohibas I've run.

this special cohiba I now have as clones and mom re-vegged is also very potent. extremely potent, very frosty and the exact same unique earthy hashy almost acrid taste I found in some jojo aww phenos I've run.

Great work Idiit, your dedication and power of observation are paying off. Personally I never encountered this Gator pheno, but it could be that my vision field was already biased by so many years of work into the same line. Like an old girlfriend, it was such a "familiar face" that you end up projecting the image stored in your mind rather than updating the latest wrinkles. I'm also baffled by your description of the effect, the Cohiba I sent out had an electric, racy, immediate effect that for the first minutes could be too much of a rush for some but then, like a plane finding its ideal altitude after the initial ascent, found and extremely pleasant cruising speed where you could settle for the long flight and enjoy the trip.

If I were to hazzard a guess as to why you are getting this heavier effect, perhaps the original three-way combination has shifted a bit and is now expressing this heavier high (remember Brazil and Paraguay got into the MJ business using Colombian genetics in origin, so all three can express the heavier Colombian sativa effect). I don't know what batch these seeds descend from, the second "New Cohiba" was the one expressing the best pheno in at least half the progeny. I always open pollenated with several chosen males in order to avoid bottlenecking, preserve vigor and reinforce the lucky combination that produced the long-lasting electric effect, but I sent the last batch out in 2002 and selection bias may have been introduced into the line by an unknown number of intervening seed-making generations. The good news is, even though it might now take a bit larger sample to find it, the electric gene is still there.

 

[idiit]

i'm wanting the electric gene. I use santa maria now but I would love to find that supreme long lasting electric cohiba that you have posted on.

there are lots of interesting phenos popping out, lots of exploration ahead.

I don't know of anyone but me who posts that is working the cohiba line; Paraguay cohiba from bsc and castroman cohiba stock.

 

[Castroman]

i'm wanting the electric gene. I use santa maria now but I would love to find that supreme long lasting electric cohiba that you have posted on.

there are lots of interesting phenos popping out, lots of exploration ahead.

I don't know of anyone but me who posts that is working the cohiba line; Paraguay cohiba from bsc and castroman cohiba stock.

The big question is what relation does the Paraguay Cohiba from BSC have to mine. Did this BSC vendor specify that the seeds came from me? It could be that he simply liked the name and was not aware of my line, or that he actually got a very early version of the Cohiba. For the record, I first circulated the seeds under the Cohiba name in 1989, face to face, way before the Internet. Some were planted and grown out near Rio de Janeiro, the same place where I found the cans that washed ashore with a super powerful mystery "maconha" that I used to shorten the flowering period. That obviously is another element that explains the heavier high in some individuals, even though I did backcross to minimize its influence in the high.

By the way, some people wondered if the story about the indica that washed ashore in cans was literary license, but it's true as this naval website reports:

Background on the "Solana Star": This ship was originally built as fishing in Taiwan, under the name Foo Lang III, years later underwent reforms in Australia being renamed Geraldtown Endeavour. In 1986 it was again renamed, this time as Solana Star Panamanian flag serving the company Compal Investments S.A. In September 1987 Solano Star passed the coast of Brazil, following the Asia to the USA. On September 14, the crew of the Star Solano, were told that the Federal Police and the Navy of Brazil already knew the marijuana charge that was on board. Brazilian authorities had been advised by the Drug Enforcement Administration DEA.

Marijuana Cans Float Ashore: To avoid being caught red-handed, the crew of the Star Solana dumped about 20,000 cans with 1.5 kilograms of marijuana each, on the shores of Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo. Of this total, the police only managed to recover about 2,500 cans. Thus, the Rio summer was characterized as "Summer of Lata" in reference to "good" quality of marijuana these containers, according to users. The ship was seized and arrested crew, but only the ship's cook was imprisoned, the other crew members fled the country.

The "Summer of the Can": The cans containing compressed marijuana with honey and glucose, they floated quietly until reaching the beaches of the coast of Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo. Few believed what was happening; the cans had a type of marijuana with higher THC content (the active ingredient of cannabis). In popular, they realized that many people spent the day in surfboards and other means "patrolling" the coast in search of cans and in sales mouths of the drug, the classic question was: "Is that the one from a can?".

The pot in those cans was so much better than anything that was available in Brazil at that time, that "da lata" ("from a can") became a slang term for something very desirable and entered popular culture through a song called "Veneno da Lata" (Canned Poison) by Fernanda Abreu, which is available on Youtube:

[YOUTUBEIF]8xEifV1FISY[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[Mustafunk]

The big question is what relation does the Paraguay Cohiba from BSC has to mine.

It wouldn't be the first time that BSC sold other people's gear... Luiz got many seeds from different friends and unfortunately ended selling most of them. For example Angolese from LMN, Zamal and Celestial Temple from Vibes Collective via Rahan and so on.

He was a con artist besides some of his seeds were interesting. Having in mind that he was moving around the same circles as most sativa guys it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[idiit]

luiz has not disclosed where he obtained his Paraguay cohiba. the Paraguay cohiba matches taste wise with castomans nld type castroman cohibas.

i'm interested more in performance than anything else. luiz at bsc has some kick ass strains. I've run as many as anyone I've read posts on bsc.

bsc's zamal is very good work. luiz has released Christophe's aka gypsy zamal aka mafate zamal that so far is hermie free on 7 out of 7 zamals I've run. this is the first christophe zamal stock reproduction I know of that is hermie free.j I've got three purple zamal plants going right now in flower and no hermies so far. the undersides of the leaves exhibit purple as do the stems.

the bsc choco chiba is highly regarded by those that have run her.

luiz received quite a few of his strains from a friend that grows in South America and knows quite a few other growers down in south America.