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Clone of a Clone of a... Degredation Experiment
- Thread starter Regulator Dave
- Start date
lol, now now mr F.
im guessing its first thing in the morning for you in OZ. perhaps some coffee is in order
im guessing its first thing in the morning for you in OZ. perhaps some coffee is in order
Wow, learnt? Nice. If you watched the video that I linked, then you may of realized that the discovery in context just changed the definition of life to the entire science community. Five hundred years ago the world was flat, two hundred years ago gravity was yet to be proven, and two weeks ago we thought that life couldn't exist in such volatile environments. A life form was able to replace its basic bio-molecular with a poison. Not too off topic from a thread that is referencing cannabis D.N.A. and what can and can't change it. Once again my point is that we don't know half of what we think we know so you should still ask your own questions regardless of science. Science is just theory because we will never have all the answers. On another note Mr Fista, my theory is that your an A$$HOLE.
If there were even a tiny grain of truth in that, the plants I grow would be absolute shite ... 8 years of cloning the clone and not a single tiny bit of degradation. And thousand of growers saying the same .... dude, check your mental math against reality!
I've never seen that borne out ... a cutting will look like the cutting it was taken (meaning the location and health of that particular part of the plant), but once grown out, it will express the genetic programming of the plant ... the original condition will have little effect beyond the amount of time it takes to get going.
if a clone is an exact replica then how would a clone from the exact replica change....wouldnt make sense.....mo
got an la con that hasnt changed a bit and its clone from clone etc etc etc.....like someone said "it only got better with the grow skills"
got an la con that hasnt changed a bit and its clone from clone etc etc etc.....like someone said "it only got better with the grow skills"
I have cloned a clone many, many times and they are exactly the same as the day I first cloned them. I did it with AK47 for over 5 years and countless generations, I am still doing it with NYCD since 02/03 and it's still the same and I have don't it with various other plants. I think there may be certain plants that are the exception but in general my conclusion is "NO DEGENERATION".
Heated discussion what? Well no matter what all us pot heads say rooted cuttings are not clones (look it up) but that is only words. If there were not environmental change in DNA we would not be blessed with Alzheimers. I did cuttings of cuttings for over 20 years, growing many many plants each season and informally observed loss of virility. If one had perfect (or almost) growing conditions then I suspect one would not encounter DNA drift through cuttings of cuttings.
Yep indeed.
It's pretty amazing that a process of propagation that dates back over 4,500 years (China) could get as f*cked up and stupid as it is in the cannabis growing paradigm. The EZ-Cloner is proof positive of that observation.
Beyond belief actually.
CC
always the same for me... look at urkle, kens gdp, bubba, etc.etc. those have been clones from clone for who knows how long and they are still great!
Thomkal Vwalaa
Member
the whole jargon is wrong, believe it. this sub-forum can be a tool to fix it. maybe a new thread should be devoted to nomenclature?
strains are varieties. clones are cuts. buds are flowers. bubble hash should melt not bubble. kief is not pollen. we grow "pot" in pots... scrap that term. and our "weed"s are intensely selected and inbred cultivars.
don't get me started on "joints" and "bowls" and that whole side of things.
Regulator Dave
In another place and time I did the actual cross of this strain around 1979-1980 and finally cracked some of the seeds in late 1983/early 1984 - something like that.
It's easy to grow, decent yield, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.............
It's been my rather 'limited experience' that a seed planted and grown comes to full genetic fruition once the seed date age hits several months. Nothing at all approaching science - just an observation and probably an inaccurate one at that.
CC
atomicfield
Member
rachaelhccc
New member
Honestly, if we look at the field of genetics we would see that various environmental stresses can cause genetic mutations, which if degradation did occur in a clone I would believe is more likely than just watered down or weakened genetics. For example, pollution can cause mutations, smoking, the presence of predators, the type of predators etc. Continous cloning I believe could also be an environmental stress, because the plant has to continue to grow new root structures in order to regrow itself. However, by this theory mutations could occur in both a positive or negative way i.e. a weakening of the genetic make-up, or a "streangthening" of it allowing it to remain in the gene pool.Even a lack of ability to change would eventually remove it from the gene pool as other genetics became more desirable. Let's take some strains abilities to be resistant to PM. If a grower finds a strain that is more resistant than others he will naturally want to breed it over another who keeps getting it time and time again. The same for potency. In this world potency is a gentic pre-cursor to being selected.
On the other hand, we have to admit the theory of genetic degradation affecting resistance to disease, molds, fungi, and potency most likely has to do with some historical evidence among grower experience that clones, of clones, of clones etc. do seem to begin to lack former desirable traits thus giving some observer evidence to the fact that this may be true. Now whether it can be proven may still be up to debate, but I do think there is evidence that it could occur.
On the other hand, we have to admit the theory of genetic degradation affecting resistance to disease, molds, fungi, and potency most likely has to do with some historical evidence among grower experience that clones, of clones, of clones etc. do seem to begin to lack former desirable traits thus giving some observer evidence to the fact that this may be true. Now whether it can be proven may still be up to debate, but I do think there is evidence that it could occur.
Good question!
And you know, I have a feeling that noone actually ever did. It's just stories we're gonna hear like In 1945 blahblah or no wait I think it was in 1946... sure 1943.. blahblah oh wait I think it was later than that... blahblahblah fok am I experienced and knowledgeable or whatMrFista, Google "observer effect" or anything about Einstein and Bohr, quantum mechanics. Comprehend at least the very basics and you will stop posting nonsense calling people what you yourself are.
Jeffie is it?
Come on then, amaze me with your basic understanding of Einstein.
Science is a whole range of disciplines in which we test hypothesis and try to understand the world around us. I think Math alone can claim some of their proofs as 'fact'. Science does the best it can with given data and when proven wrong looks for alternative explanations. A theory is a hypothesis tested by science repeatedly with an underlying body of evidence supporting it. You are an idiot and if you reread you'll find I called nobody anything I said the statement was fucking retarded. But now I did go and call you an idiot, well, that's my hypothesis anyway the jury's probably hung on that till we see more evidence.
Edit: Evidence from tokers den. Jeffie "13yo smoking? good bad? who are u to judge, all-knowing freak? is non of your f***ing business thats for sure. mind your own business thats my best advice."
I think you should take your own best advice Jeffie.
Come on then, amaze me with your basic understanding of Einstein.
Science is a whole range of disciplines in which we test hypothesis and try to understand the world around us. I think Math alone can claim some of their proofs as 'fact'. Science does the best it can with given data and when proven wrong looks for alternative explanations. A theory is a hypothesis tested by science repeatedly with an underlying body of evidence supporting it. You are an idiot and if you reread you'll find I called nobody anything I said the statement was fucking retarded. But now I did go and call you an idiot, well, that's my hypothesis anyway the jury's probably hung on that till we see more evidence.
Edit: Evidence from tokers den. Jeffie "13yo smoking? good bad? who are u to judge, all-knowing freak? is non of your f***ing business thats for sure. mind your own business thats my best advice."
I think you should take your own best advice Jeffie.
atomicfield
I apologize for my comments that lacked a couple of comments.
1. The EZ-Cloner will create rooting sites and roots in a time frame that is beyond exceptional. It's simply amazing.
2. How that rapid rooting process translates into a benefit across many growing processes remains a mystery to me. Then again I'm not all that bright.
I was given a brand new unit to test and I was blown away with the results. The benefits remain a mystery to me for an organic purist growing in a 'real soil' but I'm open to further information.
HTH
CC
- It is my opinion a clone will always be a genetic match and identical to the mother plant the clone came from.
- Thus, a clone of a clone of a clone, is still a genetic match and identical to the original plant that was cloned, no matter the time span involved.
- It is in my opinion highly unlikely that any alleged observed degradation of clonal lines is due to genetic drift (which is a consequence of populations), but rather infection, pests, or nutrient deficiency or other environmental factor(s).
- Remember epigenetic factors tend to act in the earliest stages of life (thus clones would be unaffected).
- Thus, a clone of a clone of a clone, is still a genetic match and identical to the original plant that was cloned, no matter the time span involved.
- It is in my opinion highly unlikely that any alleged observed degradation of clonal lines is due to genetic drift (which is a consequence of populations), but rather infection, pests, or nutrient deficiency or other environmental factor(s).
- Remember epigenetic factors tend to act in the earliest stages of life (thus clones would be unaffected).
daoboxer
Member
What is your point, exactly? What on earth has quantum physics got to do with the question/hypothesis originally posted (which, incidentally, has been put to bed already). Are you just trying to make yourself feel intelligent by letting us all know you've heard of Einstein or Bohr? Well done, mission accomplished, we're all suitably surprised.
This forum is for botanical topics- hence the title. Probably best to showcase your superior knowledge of quantum mechanics at the LHC website, I'm sure they're all much more on your wavelength/frequency of vibration.
