Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

rives · Apr 3, 2013

I don't know what the "best" option is - Tenthirty, Azeotrope, and myself are all using the 315w CDMs w/ electronic ballasts, and are all very impressed with the results so far. As far as I know, only Azeo has used the other CMH variants, and he used them for several years before changing over. The only downside to the 315s that I've seen are the cost of the components and their availability, but both seem to be improving.

soursmoker · Apr 3, 2013

what electronic ballasts are you running and where do you get them from? If you got them from wholesale distributor, where would you reccomend I get a single one from?

also where did you get the bulbs from? 1000bulbs.com only seems to carry the 330w ALLstarts...

anyone have experience with the 330w ALLstarts on magnetic ballasts? how are they?

thanks everyone...

thinking maybe I should wait until new tech comes out and prices drop...

GreenThumb14 · Apr 3, 2013

soursmoker said:
what electronic ballasts are you running and where do you get them from? If you got them from wholesale distributor, where would you reccomend I get a single one from?

also where did you get the bulbs from? 1000bulbs.com only seems to carry the 330w ALLstarts...

anyone have experience with the 330w ALLstarts on magnetic ballasts? how are they?

thanks everyone...

thinking maybe I should wait until new tech comes out and prices drop...

I'm using a 330w Allstart and I have no issues/complaints with it. Just started using it about two weeks ago, though. I'm powering it with a standard 400w MH mag ballast that I picked up used at a local hydro shop. The entire ballast and bulb pulls 400w from outlet as measured with a Kill-A-Watt meter.

However, I like the other side of tent more where I have a 150w cmh and a 250w retro white lamp in the same reflector. Drastically reduced shadowing versus using a single lamp.

If you're looking for a simple, cheap, quick way to get in to using CMH just go with a mag ballast and be done. The electronic ballasts for CMH lamps are not cheap at this point in time. GEL has a really nice 315w kit but it's $500 for lamp, ballast, socket.

As where to buy them from... Google is your friend. I got my 250w retro white from bulbsnlighting.com and I got my 330w allstart from 1000bulbs and I picked up the 150w cmh from.... I don't remember lol Maybe from 1000bulbs actually.

GreenThumb14 · Apr 3, 2013

Fonzarelli said:
I just purchased the 860w Allstart to run a SPD on the spectrum since no one seems to have one for some strange coincidence. I also had to buy a special EX socket and MH 1000w ballast. Sure costs a lot just to find out the damn spectrum. I'm sure I will be using it however as it is a CMH right?

Is this what you're looking for?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72215&page=318

Half way down the page is the spd...

Induction87 · Apr 3, 2013

Does Phillips not make a 860w ballast for the 860w allstart?

Can you purchase a single GEL ceramatek 315w ballast?

I have been looking at Venture lighting Uni-form pulse start MH. They make a variety from 20 to 1000w with ballasts.

http://www.venturelighting.com/lampshtmldocuments/ups_selection.html

This link shows the spectrum distribution
http://www.venturelighting.com/Liter...1-0712_v13.pdf

Thoughts?

rives · Apr 3, 2013

soursmoker said:
what electronic ballasts are you running and where do you get them from? If you got them from wholesale distributor, where would you reccomend I get a single one from?

also where did you get the bulbs from? 1000bulbs.com only seems to carry the 330w ALLstarts...

I'm using the Philips/Advance ballasts, and found them on eBay. I also found a bunch of 930 lamps on there at a good price and picked them up. I recently bought a 315w Agro from Greenbeams but haven't tried it out yet.

LeeROI · Apr 3, 2013

Fonzarelli said:
I just purchased the 860w Allstart to run a SPD on the spectrum since no one seems to have one for some strange coincidence. I also had to buy a special EX socket and MH 1000w ballast. Sure costs a lot just to find out the damn spectrum. I'm sure I will be using it however as it is a CMH right?

I was thinking a regular E39 mogul socket would work but I don't know.

Induction87 · Apr 3, 2013

Sorry, the second link didn't work. Here it is again.

http://www.venturelighting.com/Literature/Natural_White_VLI-1086B1-0712_v13.pdf

GreenThumb14 · Apr 3, 2013

LeeROI said:
I was thinking a regular E39 mogul socket would work but I don't know.
View Image

The bulb/socket on the left in the picture is an open rated bulb... So an open rated bulb should work fine in an exclusionary socket (ex39) IIRC... But don't take my word for it and double check.

In other words, an EX39 base bulb should work in an open rated socket (I think, pretty sure about it)

tenthirty · Apr 4, 2013

Induction87 said:
Sorry, the second link didn't work. Here it is again.

http://www.venturelighting.com/Literature/Natural_White_VLI-1086B1-0712_v13.pdf

View Image

Good veg bulb.

soursmoker · Apr 4, 2013

rives said:
I'm using the Philips/Advance ballasts, and found them on eBay. I also found a bunch of 930 lamps on there at a good price and picked them up. I recently bought a 315w Agro from Greenbeams but haven't tried it out yet.

so you are using this ballast? I thought these were for the Retro White 400w (utilizes HPS)? Do you have the MH version of this?

Lol I think I am just confusing myself more, the more I research into it...

so what is the difference between the 315w Agro and the 315w CDM you are using? What is difference from these from the 930 lamps?

Someone just reccomend me a setup already! haha thanks guys!
Appreciate all the help, especially you Rives!

soursmoker · Apr 4, 2013

soursmoker said:
Lol I think I am just confusing myself more, the more I research into it...

so what is the difference between the 315w Agro and the 315w CDM you are using? What is difference from these from the 930 lamps?

Nevermind I get it now.

Someone should update the first post now that there are all these new bulbs and shit.

Bulbs that run on HPS ballast:
315w CDM Elite (One Rives in using)
250w & 400w CDM Retro Whites
others I'm forgetting?

Bulbs that run on MH ballast:
205w & 330w CDM Allstarts
830w & 860w CDMs
lower wattage ones too.

So do I pretty much have all the bases covered?

and that 930 bulb you were talking about is this bulb right?

210w version of the CDM elites, utilizing HPS ballasts?

LeeROI · Apr 4, 2013

Sour, I'd add the 830w and 860w Philips CDM's that run on a conventional ANSI M47 MH ballast.

Fonzarelli · Apr 4, 2013

GreenThumb14 said:
Is this what you're looking for?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72215&page=318

Half way down the page is the spd...

If that is the correct spectrum for the 860w, it will be premo for flowering compared to the retro white old school lamp. I highly doubt all wattages for the Allstart type lamps share the exact same spectrum. It will be interesting to see what my spectrometer reads when the lamp gets here. I will be sure to post the SPD graph here.

Where can a guy buy the CDM elite Agro 315 in Mogul base? Retail of course.

Fonzarelli · Apr 4, 2013

GreenThumb14 said:
The bulb/socket on the left in the picture is an open rated bulb... So an open rated bulb should work fine in an exclusionary socket (ex39) IIRC... But don't take my word for it and double check.

In other words, an EX39 base bulb should work in an open rated socket (I think, pretty sure about it)

So an EX39 base will work in a E39 socket? On bulbs.com it said you need an EX39 socket for it and I believed it. If the EX39 lamp base fits in a standard E39 socket then a guy could use the Luxor or OG reflector hoods for the 860w Allstart right? The 860w Allstart is a vertical only lamp.

Also, are the CDM elite Agro 315w Mogul based lamps vertical only or are they universal or horizontal? Wasn't sure if this was covered yet here.

fungzyme · Apr 4, 2013

soursmoker said:
Nevermind I get it now.

Someone should update the first post now that there are all these new bulbs and shit.

Bulbs that run on HPS ballast:
315w CDM Elite (One Rives in using)
250w & 400w CDM Retro Whites
others I'm forgetting?

Bulbs that run on MH ballast:
205w & 330w CDM Allstarts
lower wattage ones too.

So do I pretty much have all the bases covered?

and that 930 bulb you were talking about is this bulb right?

210w version of the CDM elites, utilizing HPS ballasts?

Not quite - the 315W bulbs (and the 210W's also) use an electronic ballast specific to them. And the 930 refers to the color temperature, not a specific wattage. Both the 210W and the 315W come in 3000K (the 930) and 4200K (the 942) color temperature. The Agro, which is only in 315W as far as I know, is 3100K.

EDIT: and I think (don't quote me on this) but the electronic ballasts for these bulbs is considered a pulse-start metal halide ballast, with a bunch of extra electronics to enhance efficiency and bulb life...

GreenThumb14 · Apr 4, 2013

If you have an open rated bulb it will work in EX39 as well as E39. An enclosed rated bulb will only work in an enclosed rated socket (E39). An EX39 or open rated socket is usually pink and the enclosed rated only sockets are white. It's best to go with an E39 socket as then you can run both bulb types, whereas an EX39 socket will only support an open rated bulb.

If I am wrong in this in any way, please correct me.

soursmoker · Apr 4, 2013

fungzyme said:
Not quite - the 315W bulbs (and the 210W's also) use an electronic ballast specific to them. And the 930 refers to the color temperature, not a specific wattage. Both the 210W and the 315W come in 3000K (the 930) and 4200K (the 942) color temperature.

ok that makes much more sense

rives · Apr 4, 2013

soursmoker said:
Nevermind I get it now.

Someone should update the first post now that there are all these new bulbs and shit.

Bulbs that run on HPS ballast:
315w CDM Elite (One Rives in using)

Not quite! The 315w MasterColor Elite CDM series, including the Agro, only run on electronic ballasts. The two from Philips below, the GEL and the GreenBeams (same), are the only ballasts for these lamps that I know of at this time.

New Philips, this is the only information that I've seen on it -
http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.co...primavision-for-cdm-elite-mw/913700639480_eu/

Old Philips, which I'm using -
http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/connect/assets/additional-literature/ehid/IZTMH-210315-R.pdf

*edit* Damn, you guys are on it this morning. Took too long finding the links.....

soursmoker · Apr 4, 2013

rives said:
Not quite! The 315w MasterColor Elite CDM series, including the Agro, only run on electronic ballasts. The two from Philips below, the GEL and the GreenBeams (same), are the only ballasts for these lamps that I know of at this time.

New Philips, this is the only information that I've seen on it -
http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.co...primavision-for-cdm-elite-mw/913700639480_eu/

Old Philips, which I'm using -
http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/connect/assets/additional-literature/ehid/IZTMH-210315-R.pdf

*edit* Damn, you guys are on it this morning. Took too long finding the links.....

damn everytime I think I get it, I am completely wrong! LOL

so these 315w CDM Elite are only run off the ballast in those links?

also correct me if I am wrong but those are only 220v ballast as well?

So I couldn't run the bulbs you are running with this ballast?

http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/71A8453.htm

Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

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