CAP CO2 regulator or Hydrofarm CO2 regulator?

[ItsGrowTime]

Im looking to take my garden to the next (and hopefully final) step with CO2 injection. No space for a burner so Im going bottle and timer and dialing accordingly. I see two different regulators, the CAP for around $100 and the Hydrofarm for around $160 (going off BGhydro prices). Both look the same but the HF comes with a timer. BFD about the basic timer...not worth the extra $50 or so...so Im looking for reliability. Does anyone have reviews on either? Or even both? Thx in advance.


EDIT: The Hydrofarm (also called Active Air) regulator does NOT work with controllers! Why a regulator that won't work with controllers costs $50 more ($165) than one that will (CAP $110) or almost as much as the best quality (Green Air $200) I dont know.

 

[xcrispi]

I had bum luck with the H/Farm / Active air regulator .
Piece of shit liked to freeze open , I just replaced it w/ a C.A.P . Haven't run the new unit yet though , but now have incorporated a Sentinel CPPM-1 controller too .

The use of a timers a B/S guess at best regarding actual PPM in an enviroment - I strongly suggest a real controller using fuzzy logic = if using a regulator / tank sys. if you are serious about CO2 .
Or plan ahead so you can upgrade later . The H/Farm regulator is NOT for use w/ a controller , they even warn you in the instructions not to bother cuz it'll freeze .
Peace bro
Crispi

 

[Eminem]

cant comment on the regulator but I would try to get a controller or at least plan for it. Timer just doesnt seem like you can get it accurate all the time. Plus as I am learning, there may be times you want to lower PPM but not shut it off.

Off topic, how long do you run the physan for? a day, 2 days etc?

 

[Lazyman]

cant comment on the regulator but I would try to get a controller or at least plan for it. Timer just doesnt seem like you can get it accurate all the time. Plus as I am learning, there may be times you want to lower PPM but not shut it off.

Off topic, how long do you run the physan for? a day, 2 days etc?

Physan, 1-2 days tops, then flush with clean water.

I ran it at .1ml per gallon in one of my tanks for giggles though, worked fine and the plants didn't mind at all, this was for two weeks before the next res change. Res is nice and clean still!

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Thx for the thoughts. Interesting that BGhydro not only doesn't mention NOT to use a controller with the Hydrofarm, they even suggest a $600 controller to use with it. Whats up with that??

My issue is how my room is set up. It's not completely sealed so Ill have to figure out a way to shut off the fans when CO2 kicks on but for my grow space (only 8x8x8) Im not sure a $1000 CO2 setup is really worth the cost compared to what benefit I might see so I was thinking something low cost. I might start a new thread for suggestions on using CO2 in my particular setup.

Em,
I run the Physan overnight, so 12-24hrs max. Then dump the res contents and clean up the root ball of dead/infected roots and start fresh water. It's strong stuff so it doesn't take much at all to do the trick. Maximum 1ml/gal but can definitely get away with less.

 

[xcrispi]

Thx for the thoughts. Interesting that BGhydro not only doesn't mention NOT to use a controller with the Hydrofarm, they even suggest a $600 controller to use with it. Whats up with that??

No idea man = some crooked shit .
I'll link you to the PDF files / owners manual .

http://www.hydrofarm.com/downloads/fc/16563_COSYSinstruc2.08.pdf

Ist lil paragraph w/ the asterik / star next to it man .

Peace bro.
Crispi

 

[Natagonnaworrie]

whoa. glad i did a search on CO2!

i cant believe that the hydrofarm reg cant use a controller.

 

[Eminem]

The CHHC-1 from Sentinel has a gen mode that prevents the unit from constantly cycling. You could also set a higher deadband that would allow PPM to drop as far as you needed to keep it from turning on all the time.

That would be an option if you already had the hydrofarm unit. Obviously why would you spend more for a unit that already has a design flaw.

I wonder if other units have the same issue and hydrofarm is just upfront about it? How much difference can there be in regulators??

 

[xcrispi]

Hey Em ,
I tried both programs - fuzzylogic and gen mode n the piece of shit still froze open = I havent got a clue bro .
Hope the C.A.P.'s better to me as I can't run a nat.gas / lp genny here .
Crispi

Em - if you look at the 2 regs side by side they are different - the elect valve is further away from the pressure guage etc... w/ the C.A.P reg ???

 

[sparkjumper]

I have an 8 by 8 by 8 room myself with 3 1K vertizontals.Believe me man make the investment and get an actual controller,its really the only way you'd see marked results.I've tried the cyclestat timer with my cd-6 burner and the plants grew like normal because the fluctuations were just too much for the plant to get any actual enrichment.Cyclestat timers and room dimensions dont take into account the number of plants or what stage of growth they are in.Its basically useless I found out after using several RAE systems co2 tube tester.In 12 hours Id be all over the fuckin place from 1500PPM down to 600 PPM at times.A controller will always keep the co2 level constant with no more than a 200PPM fluctuation.This is vital believe me

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Room size isn't really my concern. I pull 4lbs without CO2 so an extra lb would be nice. Im more concerned with my ventilation setup. A Vortex pulls through a scrubber, by way of the lights, and blows out of the room. If Im running CO2 on a controller set at 1500ppm, wouldn't the fan pull most of the CO2 out before the plants can use it? Wouldn't that keep the controller constantly pushing to maintain 1500ppm? Sounds like I'd be swapping bottles once a week! That's why I was thinking regulator and timer instead. At least that way I could shut off the Vortex while the CO2 is incoming and give the plants a chance to use at least some before the Vortex sucks it all out when it turns back on. Otherwise I think it would be a waste...

Changing my ventilation configuration isn't really an option. How then can I make CO2 work in my garden?

 

[xcrispi]

Room size isn't really my concern. I pull 4lbs without CO2 so an extra lb would be nice. Im more concerned with my ventilation setup. A Vortex pulls through a scrubber, by way of the lights, and blows out of the room. If Im running CO2 on a controller set at 1500ppm, wouldn't the fan pull most of the CO2 out before the plants can use it? Wouldn't that keep the controller constantly pushing to maintain 1500ppm? Sounds like I'd be swapping bottles once a week! That's why I was thinking regulator and timer instead. At least that way I could shut off the Vortex while the CO2 is incoming and give the plants a chance to use at least some before the Vortex sucks it all out when it turns back on. Otherwise I think it would be a waste...

Changing my ventilation configuration isn't really an option. How then can I make CO2 work in my garden?

You can seal the room completely and have the scrubber cleaning and exhausting right back into the room itself . Plants use the Carbon from CO2 and excrete they're own oxygen supply , the only reason my room ever exhausts is if it overheats - the Sentenial controllers have a 12v bkup that shuts off the regulator when the emergency exhaust is triggered = as lil CO2 wasted as possible . They're really sweet pieces of gear man . I've seen the CPPM-1 as cheap as $427.00 on the net .
Crispi

 

[ItsGrowTime]

I wonder if other units have the same issue and hydrofarm is just upfront about it? How much difference can there be in regulators??

Taking this another step Ive started looking at CO2 regulators used for aquarium plants. According to one manufacturer, this is a problem with ALL needle valve regulators and has to do with pressure differences and changes that cause the valves to stick open even after the regulator has turned off. I don't understand all the lingo but yes it does sound like it's a problem with all regulators that use needle valves. The aquarium plant industry's CO2 regulators appear much more advanced and better constructed than the junky looking ones I see for our horticulture industry. Interestingly, prices aren't all that much higher. Im checking out an electronic one right now that instead of a needle valve it uses an electronically controlled valve that opens and closes a bunch of times while running to ensure steady flow and guarantee closure when it cycles off. Adapting it to our horticultural use is what I have to figure out since Im just starting to learn about CO2. If anyone wants to take a look heres a few links:

electronic CO2 regulator:
http://www.aquariumplants.com/AquariumPlants_com_s_Electronic_Co2_Regulator_p/co2.htm

aquarium plant CO2 regulators:
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-regulators.html

how CO2 works in a plant aquarium:
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/planted-aquarium-blog/

Interesting reading. I bet it can be adapted to our needs pretty easily, if it can handle the flow rates we need (I emailed to ask). Instead of pumping the CO2 into the aquarium water we just pump it into the air. I like the look of the electronic one a lot.

^^^^^Ill update that if I get a response to my emails. Those kinds of regulators need to be industry standard, but they're not.
--------------------------

EDIT: After researching more, Green Air has a nice regulator that they say is guaranteed to work with controllers without issue though it's more expensive. I may end up going with the Green Air regulator and the CAP PPM-3 controller. The Green Air SPC-1 CO2 controller is nice too but more expensive. I think Ill redo my ventilation to make use of CO2. If I get a 4" fan and scrubber and have those clean the air standalone then I can route my light ventilation out of the room. Looks like it'll set me back about $600 (not incl. bottle and gas) to get it up and running. Compared to long term returns though that's pretty cheap.

EDIT2: I finally found CAP's website (www.randmsupply.com HARD to find site) and their instructions are here:
http://www.randmsupply.com/images/link/REG-1instructions.pdf
It says it is designed to work with any control device that is 120V. No disclaimer like the Hydrofarm. I may choose this one instead of the Green Air? Not sure. Quality is most important in a regulator.
Im going to update the OP with this info so maybe someone else won't end up paying more for a inferior product.

DONT BUY A HYDROFARM (also called ACTIVE AIR) CO2 REGULATOR! YOU CAN'T USE IT WITH A CONTROLLER!

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Looks like the maker of the electronic regulator wants my help with applying their product to our industry! What should I do?

 

[SKUNK420]

I've seen this same question in different threads. So from my experiences I can say that I had a hydrofarm reg. from 2002 that is still working like a champ while being controlled from a sentinel chhc-1. Then I sold it and bought a sentinel reg. and I've returned it 3 times for various problem from freezing over to having leaks ( brand new out the box first test of the unit). So I guess I'm going to either buy a C.A.P. reg first then if that freezes over then I'll add a co2 reg heater or get this right from the start http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2 and then just get the proper fitting(s) and add the electric solenoid to it. In the welding world you have to back purge the weld some times and that means lots of gas and welders have the same problems of reg. freeze over. Also make sure you get a flow-meter and not just a flow-gauge.
.
Currently I don't use my chhc-1 to activate my co2 reg. I using a normal timer to turn on for 12 hours a GreenAir repeat cycle timer to just turn on the co2 for 3 minutes on ( any longer the reg freezes regardless of flow setting) and then off for 8 to 10 min. Which is long enough to let the reg. warm back up. For now it's a I'm cool with it/ hate it set-up. I'm cool now that I have some co2 control and my ppms are above 1200 this way and I'm nor wasting a 35lbs. bottle in one day but I hate not being able to use the co2 reg. with my $600 co2 controller, It's currently just an over priced co2 measuring device. Soon enough though I'll have my new regulator and all will be right.

 

[darookie2000]

Looks like the maker of the electronic regulator wants my help with applying their product to our industry! What should I do?

Get us freebies, lol! I would tell them to talk to Humboldt Wholesale, probably. They seem like they are building out their product line without as much clutter as hydrofarm and sunlight (so far).

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Get us freebies, lol! I would tell them to talk to Humboldt Wholesale, probably. They seem like they are building out their product line without as much clutter as hydrofarm and sunlight (so far).

I was honest with them that Im still learning about proper CO2 injection but I'd be happy to help however I can. Im hoping they send me a unit free-of-charge. I don't see why it wouldnt work if I had it hooked up to a controller. The flow rate and stuff isn't all that important as long as it can hold 1500ppm reliably. We'll see what happens.

 

[xcrispi]

I've seen this same question in different threads. So from my experiences I can say that I had a hydrofarm reg. from 2002 that is still working like a champ while being controlled from a sentinel chhc-1. Then I sold it and bought a sentinel reg. and I've returned it 3 times for various problem from freezing over to having leaks ( brand new out the box first test of the unit). So I guess I'm going to either buy a C.A.P. reg first then if that freezes over then I'll add a co2 reg heater or get this right from the start http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2 and then just get the proper fitting(s) and add the electric solenoid to it. In the welding world you have to back purge the weld some times and that means lots of gas and welders have the same problems of reg. freeze over. Also make sure you get a flow-meter and not just a flow-gauge.
.
Currently I don't use my chhc-1 to activate my co2 reg. I using a normal timer to turn on for 12 hours a GreenAir repeat cycle timer to just turn on the co2 for 3 minutes on ( any longer the reg freezes regardless of flow setting) and then off for 8 to 10 min. Which is long enough to let the reg. warm back up. For now it's a I'm cool with it/ hate it set-up. I'm cool now that I have some co2 control and my ppms are above 1200 this way and I'm nor wasting a 35lbs. bottle in one day but I hate not being able to use the co2 reg. with my $600 co2 controller, It's currently just an over priced co2 measuring device. Soon enough though I'll have my new regulator and all will be right.

Sweet find man . The last product gave me a lil wood for a min. until i saw the flow data on the reg. 0-60 scfh . Welders using non flam. gas as a shielding device use c02 / Argon at much much higher rates than we need = it might trigger the CHHC-1 to shut off prematurely . I have a cppm-1 that werks like your unit but w/o the temp / a/c etc... features . Knowing your reg kept freezing like mine scares me now . I hope this new CAP reg fixes my probs . Flow rate is important - thread starter made comment that he thought it might not be . The way our sniffers werk is once theres a layer of co2 at canopy height it triggers the reg / sys to stop . With hi flow rates it';s gonna stop the reg. before we have an actual layer up to the sensor thats hung at canopy height .
Hmmmmmmmmm
Crispi

CAP Regs better be the shit or I too have a 450.00 ppm monitor instead of a controller too .

 

[ItsGrowTime]

I bet the placement (location) of your CO2 controller in your garden makes more difference than flow rate of the regulator.

 

[xcrispi]

The actual controllers outside the room so you dont havta open the door to get a reading which wont be right after opening the door . The sniffer and photocell are actually in the room and to be kept at canopy height so the sys isn't trying to fill the entire room , just up to canopy height .
The sniffer in these systems is fukn crazy sensetive man , you can fart next to this thing and send it into a tizzy - no lie . Just us breathing by it sends false info bk to the controller .
Crispi