Can’t stop the purple stems! What am I doing wrong

[GeraldsFinest]

Hi guys. So I have a couple years under my belt growing in coco. I’m currently in week 1 of flower with GG#4. I’ve noticed the stems progressively getting more purple each day. I thought it was Mg so I did a couple feeds of Epsom salts but still the purple remains. Temps are good RH is 40-55. Multi feeding (4 events per lights on) GH@ 550-680ppm

4 lights total. 2 nextlight mega’s, 1 hlg 550, 1 hlg 650. Co2 900. I was feeding higher but runoff was quite high so I dialed it back. Anybody have issues and know of a true cause of the purple stems? This is the second run with this strain. The first went stellar. The only thing different is the new led’s but the purple was happening in veg also under CMH’s

 

[Steviewunder]

what is your temp in your grow environment? Usually we see purple in indicas that are not "warm" enough. Like later on in october. Whats the temp with lights off?

 

[Steviewunder]

They look very healthy. Maybe a pheno or just a trait you didn`t see in your last run

 

[Jellyfish]

Yeah, I never looked at purple stems as a symptom of anything bad. I think there's even a thread on here all about purple stemmed plants. Some people seek out purple stemmed plants.

 

[GeraldsFinest]

It’s driving me crazy because last round the stems were thick green hollow stems, and this time their thinner and purple and hard to crush the stems. My temps at lights out says 70. Lights on its 76-78. I added a good dose of calmag to see if it does anything. It’s just so strange because the last round I started them from seeds and they were the healthiest most vigorous plants I’ve ever seen. So I took clones from those before flipping and that’s what these are. Ever since I put them in their first solo cut they were purple and never seems to snap out of it no matter what. Strangest thing

 

[Crooked8]

Classic over watering symptom. This typically happens rapidly when temps are too cool and plants are over watered which often happens in conjunction. 70 w lights off should be fine for gg4. Dial back the irrigation.

 

[Growenhaft]

hi, this is an observation that I have made several times.

here is my theory.

Since I also only had this phenomenon with cuttings, I suspect that it is precisely related to it. according to your description, is the stem hard?
if you take one away and open it you will find that the stem is lignified. this is a reaction that occurs more often in annual plants, for example basil tomatoes etc.

as far as I have researched, the pruning of the stem triggers the lignification of the stem. the plant wants to protect itself in its short life.

cuttings of this kind have a little less yield with me. they tend to have problems with nutrients even in high bloom. the lignification eats up a lot of potassium calcium phosphorus. At the same time, the tolerance of these plants to a higher EC value of the nutrient solution is worse. that means the ranch between lack and over-fertilization is narrower

these plants are not very suitable for mother keeping with regular cuttings

 

[GeraldsFinest]

Interesting theory that’s Growenhaft I’ll have to keep an eye out. And yes to the other post I have been watering quite a bit but the only reason is if I don’t my runoff seems to spike. I’ve just dialed it back to 2 waterings instead of 4. I also added 5mg calmag.

 

[Guest]

Purple means sugars in the sap are building up instead of being used by the roots. Purple is not a genetic trait itself, it's a symptom of sugar profile (genetic) x plant function (health). In soil, purple means your roots have stopped growing. In coco it means youre probably not uptaking enough phosphorus. And if youre under Leds, it's probably because the plants aren't pulling up enough calcium.

Purples, reds, blacks and blues = stalled photosynthetic carbohydrates. Carbs depend on phosphorus to move, phosphorus depends on calcium to move, calcium depends on transpiration to move. Led plants don't transpire well. I see purple under Leds I assume they need calcium. Purple stems should never show up until the plant is fading. That's when you want the starches converting in the shoots rather than the roots, and then converting into alcohols, combining with terpenoids, etc). Premature fading is equivalent to causing nutrient traffic jams in the plant. Purple with cuttings just means youre using excess light: the plants have no roots to send the photosynthates to.


RANT:
I bet most of today's purple genetics were bred so heavily with phosphorus that the seeds never learn to grab it from soil, and are perpetually deficient. I was listening to a breeder podcast the other day, these guys didn't know a thing about plants. They were doing crazy things to get more seeds while passing down poor epigenetic traits. I'm also wondering how many people smoking legal weed are smoking reversed males ran through an acetone extractor.

I have seen so much baloney online about leds and purple plants, it's completely absurd. Companies claiming "led activates more photosynthesis, therefore needing more calmag" and all this other nonsense. It's a transpiration issue. LEDs don't suck more nutrients to make more photosynthesis. They transpire slower, that's it. Double or triple all inputs that rely on transpiration/passive uptake (assuming your plants drink as slow as mine do even under perfect vpd). LEDs have been around for a decade and people are still having to figure this out their selves,.because even the damn grow suppliers/manufactures don't grasp plants.

 

[Hammerhead]

I get a bit of purple striping on my plants.. Could every bit be removed ?. Its never caused quality issues that I can tell. The only time it's ever been an issue is with plants that have a lot. It turns into a bad lockout issue. I grow in Hp promix. Your plants look like they need some Cal/mag?. I just swapped 1 of my 1kw CMH to a Diablo 650. All my plants under that LED looked like yours but no purple. I was told I had to use Cal/mag with LED. I added some just on my plants under LED it has made an improvement. I'm still a newbie with LED.

 

[Growenhaft]

hey buttholocaust I agree with you for the most part.
However, it always requires a 100% functioning plant. which is also the case with the majority of plants.

1. But like every living being that is dependent on the function of a metabolism, there are also plants that have a weak metabolism and which have a direct metabolic disorder. Metabolic diseases occur in every type of life, including cannabis, of course.
I know, for example, a metabolic disease in cannabis which can be treated wonderfully through regular administration of salicylic acid as a foliar treatment. So similar to diabetes in humans where the metabolism does not produce enough insulin. the only question is what does it make sense? Plants with metabolic diseases have never really surprised me where the extra effort is justified by a special aroma or higher yield. so it is not rational, it would be better to sort them out right away. The prerequisite is calculable quality and quantity. But as a hobby it is a very exciting topic to deal with the processes within the plant

2. genetics and shortened evolution. depending on experience, the plants with their direct environment collects over several generations, the plant will seek ways to adapt, to make a profit from it, to protect itself better and to learn to defend itself.

the lignification of the branches would ensure that only the fresh shoots are available to the animals, but not the entire plant being devoured.

in some varieties that I have grown to raise mother plants, this phenomenon has occurred repeatedly.

after the first large cuttings have been removed, the mother plant begins to lignify its branches. So not when 2-3 shoots are cut but when a high percentage of their total mass is lost. the cut cuttings, which are still green, begin to lignify while the roots are being formed. thus 2 processes come together that draw a lot of phosphorus. root formation and lignification.

As a result of the lignification, the stems lost their photosynthesis and thus their green color, because no more chlorophyll is produced there. the color of the branches is then replaced by other dyes of the metabolic process. that can be anything from brown to red, purple to black. also depends heavily on environmental factors and the ph value in particular.

 

[flylowgethigh]

I have plants with he top half purple and the bottom half green. Isn't the color "sunburn"?

I noticed it last nights when the lights came on.

 

[asher1er]

Purple means sugars in the sap are building up instead of being used by the roots. Purple is not a genetic trait itself, it's a symptom of sugar profile (genetic) x plant function (health). In soil, purple means your roots have stopped growing. In coco it means youre probably not uptaking enough phosphorus. And if youre under Leds, it's probably because the plants aren't pulling up enough calcium.

I can tell you that phosphorus definitely plays a role in turning the stems purple when growing in coco like stated above.. For many moons down this way they used phosphoload religiously an ofcourse you know how some always think more is better within days of some of these guys loading the plant up with phos you would see the stems starting to change and IMO it was due to a lock out of phos from such a overload. The guys who would run a low dose never experienced this issue and still gained what they needed from the product which is mainly to stop the stretch of the plant.

 

[GeraldsFinest]

Man you guys are spitting some knowledge for sure. The two things that stuck out to me in the last few posts are about cutting a big percentage of branches off, and the calcium uptake with leds. So just a week or so before I really started to notice the purple I did an aggressive branch/node strip on the bottom of the plants to improve airflow and light pen. I’ve done the same thing on previous grows and the plants never reacted this way. However I wasn’t under leds.

Also I have been using micro/bloom and Epsom salts not calmag, and just yesterday I noticed some rust colored spots just starting to appear on a few leaves which makes me think calcium. Also I’ve been noticing just an ever so slightly claw/droop. Not sure if that is related to calcium or not it’s just an observation. Usually under HPS under the same exact room conditions these plants are praying hard and just loving life. So the LED’s are contributing to the issue I just need to figure them out.

 

[Hammerhead]

I had to dim it to 70% after my 1st run.. My 1st run at 100% power was not the best. After adding Cal/mag, dimming to 70%, my plants did much better. The canopy temp needs to be hotter from what others tell me. I have not tested that. I have yet to use 100% power. After adding cal/mag they are doing much better. The distance to the canopy is 30". Hope this helps.

 

[asher1er]

I had to dim it to 70% after my 1st run.. My 1st run at 100% power was not the best. After adding Cal/mag, dimming to 70%, my plants did much better. The canopy temp needs to be hotter from what others tell me. I have not tested that. I have yet to use 100% power. After adding cal/mag they are doing much better. The distance to the canopy is 30". Hope this helps.

I've been hearing the same from some locals who have been doing the switch to LED.. they find themselves needing to run the room warmer than usual compared to the HPS rooms.

 

[GeraldsFinest]

What’s warmer like 80?

 

[Hammerhead]

What’s warmer like 80?

I was told 85f. I have not tested this.. Others with LED experience can chime in on this. It has to do with trasperation. LED doesn't produce IR heat so it hinders your plants from transpiring. Running the room warmer fixes this. This is what I was told.

 

[flylowgethigh]

When my plants first get under the LEDs the first month of veg, they crave the cal-mag. I may try adding some dolomite to the soil for my next batch. When you raise the LEDs the air gets warmed. I also have my flowering lights down around 80%, over 2' above the tops, and the temps with the lights on are running low 80's. I have to get the lung room down to 70*F and 50% for the tents to work.

 

[chronosync]

You need more cal-mag to buffer the coco, extra calcium for led, and higher temp for led to make up for lack of IR

Up the calcium and up the temps, you are probably seeing spikes in run-off because you're feeding too high, the reason the spikes go away with the multi -feeds is that you are resetting the medium with each feed. I'd try lowering base EC and make up the difference with the extra calcium, or cal-mag, and since you are running the glue keep with the epsom. Another thing to consider with higher temps you will get higher a transpiration rate, so feeds (EC) should be lowered slightly to accommodate this