~Cannafornia Style~◆Area51~Kiddie Pool PPK◆VERT~Evolution~

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 9, 2013

high life 45 said:
Ok lets figure out what just we are trying to do here.

Awesome...

Is it a 3# tree your after, or lots of meds?

I have no idea what I would do with so much medication.
Havent really thought that far ahead... lol

I want 3 lb trees because of this...

Images for jorge cervantes 10 lb plants

If they can do this outside...
A PPK could do at least 1/2 this indoors.. IMPO...

I want to see if I can blow some minds(Mt own being the 1st)

:biggrin:

Besides... I needed a goal for season 3 and 1lb trees are easy with PPKs... lol
:laughing:

What is the sqft of your growing space? Are you going to do this in a tent?

32 square feet - 1600 watts would give me a perfect 50 watts/square foot

This will be in my 4x8 Lighthouse tent with the same 43" K-Pools
pushed together in the center of the tent with a single plant in the center of each pool.

A 600 bulb on the outsides of the pools and one in the center.

Perhaps just pure Calcined clay....

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 9, 2013

A little something to chew on..

Kong...

View image in gallery

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 9, 2013

View image in gallery

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 9, 2013

View image in gallery

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 9, 2013

View image in gallery

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 9, 2013

Pool #2

Pool #2

View image in gallery

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 9, 2013

View image in gallery

One of the top cuts I tossed in just to see...

View image in gallery

high life 45 · Jul 9, 2013

Well lets think about it some more, you are going for 2.5 oz per sq ft dry.....

I think your approach is good. ill have to think about this some more, so much goin on in my head right now.

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 9, 2013

high life 45 said:
Well lets think about it some more, you are going for 2.5 oz per sq ft dry.....

Would that not BLOW some minds :woohoo:

I think your approach is good. ill have to think about this some more, so much goin on in my head right now.

Awesome bro.. Take ya time and hurry up.... :biggrin:

All the time ya need,bro ( back burner stuff here )

:ying:

SRGB · Jul 9, 2013

Alien Dawg:

I thought you needed multiple feeds per 24 hours to achieve Hydroponic growth rates.(Bigger/faster)

--

I'm slightly surprised by the lack of difference in growth rates between multiple and singular feedings per 24 hours.

--

Stellar observations... I've noticed this same thing with my bonsai garden.

I take a tree and place it in a mound of dirt.
After 6 months I place that mound on a 3" bed of soild.
6 months later I wash the dirt from the mound(exsposing the roots to air.
They create a harden surface, yet the trees do quite well and the root live.
After another 4-6 months,
I fold the 3" root zone downwards and place into another 3" bed of solid...
6 months to 8 months later I go back and wash the soil from the root zone again.

I have some trees the stand on 8" of roots...
Ill have to take a picture for you...

--

One of the many advantages I see with SRBGB and
cant help but to see a SRBGB bag sitting in the center of a Kiddie pool half filled with CC and the bag filled with the same CC.
Sitting on a PPK system(of course) Being a great set up for growing
incredible trees.

The many ways you have experimented with your product is amazing
and inspiring to say the least.

--

This is information I have looked for and never found as well defined as you have just laid out...

Thank you SO much for this insight...

--

This sounds so right on target as a great grow style in its self...
For me, this makes me wonder if instead of tail pieces threw the 8 holes in a K-pool it might be feasible to simply cover the holes with
screening and let the roots work as the wicking agent.

Things to ponder.... I love it...

--

I have to believe you help many a stranger in the crowd,
just as you have helped this stranger in the crowd over the past year...

Hi, Alien Dawg.

Thank you for your kind words.

The description of your root layering with your bonsai sounds particularly interesting.
If you can find an illustration, that would be nice, although we can envision your
processes.

The given plant or tree can only uptake so much water per 24 hour period. We are not
certain how the concept of multiple watering per day would outperform a single watering
per day. If 1 gallon was distributed to a given plant incrementally over the course of a day, and another was provided the entire gallon at once, both would presumably drain
the excess moisture out of the media and vessel. With a recirculating `hydroponic`
system, that run-off would travel back to a centralized reservoir to be re-agitated,
possibly mixed with more nutrients and redeployed into the system. With the drain-to-no-waste method, that run-off would be held in the external basin, fully accessible by
plant roots, without and re-mixing. The question might then be does that root system inside of the vessel require additional moisture, when the roots growing out of the SRBGB have full access to moisture? As we indicated in our previous post, we found root portions to be differentiated to their zone; that is, the roots within the vessel (SRBGB) were older roots, while thosse roots that emerged from the SRBGB and continued to grow into the shallow basin of run-off were the newly formed and rapidly growing root tips.

We cannot recollect from our notes, when we did do recirculating systems, any significant difference between that and hand watering. These are simply our observations. The best way to find the difference, if any, in your garden would be to do a side-by-side. One hand watered once per day, one pulsed, waved, or on 24/7.

Concerning your current pursuits, we might here briefly touch on the subject, without
offering any definitive guides.

As with our other projects, we would perhaps begin with a rough outline of the objectives
of the project.

I. X SIZED PLANT OR TREE WITH X FRUIT OR FLOWER LOAD
A. Genetics of the cultivar.
B. Light levels and vegetative period.
C. (1) 20 gallon SRBGB. (1) pool.
D. Anchorage and supports.
E. Vertical and lateral space.
F. Training, pruning and thinning.
G. No guarantees.
H. Addendum

I.A. Genetics.
Select only the strongest specimen from your lines. If seed, there really is no way to
guage what the outcome would be. Perhaps select genetics that have been tried at least
three or four occasions. Select the strongest branch for the project, having short internodes, woodier branches and no diseases or pest infestations.

I.B. Light levels and vegetative period.
Vegetative periods do not require a dark period. Full light used for flower on 24/7
for vegetation. Not required, but adds 42 hours of light energy per week when applied.
Vegetative period is where I.A. becomes important. Without being very familiar with
the specimen, it might be difficult to determine how much elongation might occur at
fruiting onset. Generally, with the light you indicated, perhaps six to eight weeks, or more, to achieve a single specimen which would cover at least half of the entire space that your currently has - before initiating flowering.

I.C. (1) 20 gallon SRBGB. (1) pool.
We would acquire (1) new pool. That would be slightly less than four feet in diameter.
We would then sit a single (1) 20 gallon SRBGB in that pool. The SRBGB would be filled with the preferred media. For us, it would probably be a mix of fine pumice and quarter to
eigth inch pumice. We would either a) top feed approximately 1 gallon per 24 hour period,
or more, if the basin pan became damp to dry, without a thin film, at the conclusion of the 24 hour period. At most, perhaps 2 to 2.5 gallons per 24 hour period. Depending on
actual consumption and evaporation rates. With that size of pool, if the gardener desired to do an actively recirculating system, they could simply place a single pump in the pan of the pool, pour 10 gallons of water into the pool, position a single feed line emitting at the top of the SRBGB, and turn it on 24/7. Simply re-filling the pool to approximately 2 to 3 inches of water (approximately 7-10 gallons in that sized pool), or more precisely, so that the intake for the pump was always underwater. When using an SRBGB, the roots would grow into that pool, unrestricted by any `media wick`, or anything else. That is one approach that we used, rather effective and limited moving parts, limited feed lines, etc. We would generally have at least 3 pumps for every single 20 gallon SRBGB station. We would swap out those pumps and all of the feed lines every week or so, to clean. Yet another approach is the float valve method, which we are still developing, which would be a large tank above a pool, or other basin, switched to `on` or `off` by, at least in part, the level in the basin depleting. Hand water, if possible, would be the preferred method, reduces waste and overwatering, or, to put it another way, `over-systeming`.

I.D. Anchorage and supports.
Very important. We would probably create a ceiling support system to drop lines from to
hold the branches and terminal flowers. We would also employ about 36 to 48 bamboo stakes per single 20 gallon SRBGB. There really is never too much anchorage or supports. The branches have less stress to keep themselves upright and less energy is expended maintaining turgor pressure. We would generally stake at the base of the branch, the middle and just beneath the terminal flower. We would additionally attach some form of line to the same area around the terminal flower base, to further support it from the top.
During this (endless) process of rearranging branches, I.E. and I.F. become important.

I.E. Vertical and lateral space.
We would allocate approximately 36 cubic feet for each specimen in a 20 gallon SRBGB.
That is, we would picture a large box, similar to what a four washing machines in a single box might appear like. That is the box we would want to fill with foliage and eventually fruit or flowers. Roughly a six by six by six volume of space. That was needed
due to I.D. When proper anchorage and supports were used with larger plants or trees, the resulting branches and shoots would be spread out over a wider and taller area than if they had not been anchored and supported, similar to opening an umbrella. Adequate spacing
might provide better light penetration into the acquired mass of foliage that accrues after a lengthy vegetation period in a large SRBGB.

I.F. Training, pruning and thinning.
An integral part of the process. Very difficult without understanding the specifics of I.A. An endless process, especially if the gardener does not desire a large tree with
sparse or moderately sized fruit. Large plants or trees do not inherently, or by themselves, produce large flowers or fruits. It might still be the gardener`s task
to train (tying), prune (eliminating innards and new growth), and thin (reduce fruit or flower sites to maximize selected fruit or flower sites). While large plants or trees might be your objective, overgrown and unkept foliage or non-trained and supported flowers probably would not be desired and might incur other issues. Large plants or trees alone might not automatically equate to greater total fruit load; training and thinning the best genetics for that goal might be the balancing work of the soilless gardener at such a pursuit.

I.G. No guarantees.
It might be a fair amount of work to not just garden plants or tree until they are large, but to maximize the efficiency of the process at every stage.

There are no guarantees that can be relied upon for any crop, cultivar or desired fruit load. The attentive soilless gardener, might, after several occasions with the same specimen, become aware of its traits and could better deliver certain nutrients at certain times, or prune certain areas that might not develop, or know that ten to eleven weeks are the actual time required to finish the flowering or fruiting process properly.

There really are no magic incantations that produce `trees`. In fact, it is difficult to
even define what a `tree` is, objectively or subjectively. For the purposes of this
post, we will abandon total fruit load as a variable and focus on the foliage mass. This is due to this instance in which it appears that you have not attempted to `max-out` your garden by only trying two, or a single plant or tree in that area. You might not be fully aware of all the constant variable and adjustments required for a larger plant or tree to develop healthily throughout the season. We might consider a small `tree` to be of at least sixteen cubic feet of folaige mass, or picture 16 12 inch by 12 inch by 12 inch boxes stacked onto a pallet in rows and columns of 4. A larger `tree` might be a similar picture, yet with 36 `boxes`, or six feet by six feet by six feet.

We would probably maintain one side of the garden with your existing system, in case everything did not go as desired. On the other side, we would place a single specimen into a single 20 gallon SRBGB in a single pool, between the two lamps on either side. Perhaps when the foliage covered the entire pool, and began growing over the edge of the pools` walls, initiating flower.

Still, no guarantees. Just sharing potential options that might be considered by the soilless gardener.

I.H. Addendum
1. Dehumidification. With larger plants or trees, dehumidification might be a sound
input into the garden. A lot (5 to 10, or more) gallons of water could be pushed out of leaves and the garden over the course of a single 24 hour period.

2. pH. 5.0 - 5.5 to maintain a slightly acid media and external reservoir. pH might tend to drift into an alkaline state when a fair amount of vegetative (nitrate based) nutrients are used.

3. Apply calcium separately every week or two to make certain it is getting into and up through the plant or tree.

4. Silicon for stronger stems and branches and moderate pest defense.

5. Feed lighter strength solutions, even feed-water-feed. With longer vegetative cycles,
there might be more opportunity for accumulation of reactive compounds or solids forming in the media.

6. The less coco coir the better. Tends to attract insects, hold too much water, affect nutrient availability and pH. Also, more difficult to re-use. By employing pumice, perlite, or other inert rock based substrates, the entire soilless mix can be completely re-used.

CONCLUSION
These are merely some points that we might consider if the goal were larger plants or trees in a relatively `moderately` sized garden. Not any definitive points, but perhaps some areas that might be examined. We are not endorsing any of the above. They are only random concepts that may, or may not be possibly applicable to a given soilless garden. It would be the soilless gardener that might experiment with `maxing-out` their area to actually find if that area could support such a goal, then adjusting the points in need of such at the forward gardens.

There are several threads throughout the forums by members achieving, if not your goals,
close to those marks. In each, you might find that the gardeners had done a fair amount of experimenting (with larger plants or trees) prior to reaching those marks, and ultimately tried to keep the process as simple as possible.

A 20 gallon SRBGB in a pool, fed either once per day by hand or 24/7 from a single pump might be a relatively simple option - yet that would not be any guarantee of reaching the goal, as the primary element of success in that pursuit might be accrued awareness of the variables in that field of pursuits. That is not to post that your desire and acumen would not propel your garden to the state you are seeking. Any gardener with the space and desire could possibly reach similar marks of achievement relevant to the goals they set. Again, there are no magic or shortcut involved that we could determine, and certainly no guarantees to any prosepctive fruit or flower load.

We hope that this post might be helpful.

Kind regards,
/SRGB/

DHF · Jul 9, 2013

Hey Bro......Rule of thumb for big plants has ALWAYS been a minimum of a 5 x 5 area PER plant , AND it needsta be a 50/50 "Sat/Ind" hybrid for the upper stretch to accommodate the full potential of vertical bare bulbs hangin......IOW.....

A 3 lb`er is most definitely strain dependent as well as system driven , and although I`m sure once dialed with said proper hybrid the PPK/Love Machine is capable of doing so , but........

It`s still gonna take runs under yer belt to learn howta clean out the insides of sucker branches while opening up the plants for better lumen penetration and air movement to prevent any airborn pathogens from proliferating in late bloomage......that said.....

Texas Kid ran some single plants in kiddie pools back some yrs ago with elevated humidity levels and proper watts per sq ft with a good deal of success with DTW coco if memory serves , but regardless....

Big plants need their own area to breathe and absorb proper wattage IME....I never got more than 2 1/2 lb`ers outta my mex skunk hybrid back in the day and she was dialed to fuck and back with only 34 watts per sq ft , so again strain dependent and learnin howta exploit said strain will up bottomline returns.....bet on it.....anyways.....

Holler if I can help , but HL`s killin it with my suggested 4 plant 5 light setup , and he`s got full illustrated blow by blow details , so I`ll be on my bucket waitin fer shit ta blow up in "Dawg-ville"......but.....

10 x 10 areas for the 4 plant 5 light setup rule guaranteed.....

Peace.....Freds..... :ying:

......

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 10, 2013

Hi, Alien Dawg.

Thank you for your kind words.

The description of your root layering with your bonsai sounds particularly interesting.
If you can find an illustration, that would be nice, although we can envision your
processes.

The given plant or tree can only uptake so much water per 24 hour period. We are not
certain how the concept of multiple watering per day would outperform a single watering
per day. If 1 gallon was distributed to a given plant incrementally over the course of a day, and another was provided the entire gallon at once, both would presumably drain
the excess moisture out of the media and vessel. With a recirculating `hydroponic`
system, that run-off would travel back to a centralized reservoir to be re-agitated,
possibly mixed with more nutrients and redeployed into the system. With the drain-to-no-waste method, that run-off would be held in the external basin, fully accessible by
plant roots, without and re-mixing. The question might then be does that root system inside of the vessel require additional moisture, when the roots growing out of the SRBGB have full access to moisture? As we indicated in our previous post, we found root portions to be differentiated to their zone; that is, the roots within the vessel (SRBGB) were older roots, while thosse roots that emerged from the SRBGB and continued to grow into the shallow basin of run-off were the newly formed and rapidly growing root tips.

We cannot recollect from our notes, when we did do recirculating systems, any significant difference between that and hand watering. These are simply our observations. The best way to find the difference, if any, in your garden would be to do a side-by-side. One hand watered once per day, one pulsed, waved, or on 24/7.

Concerning your current pursuits, we might here briefly touch on the subject, without
offering any definitive guides.

As with our other projects, we would perhaps begin with a rough outline of the objectives
of the project.

I. X SIZED PLANT OR TREE WITH X FRUIT OR FLOWER LOAD
A. Genetics of the cultivar.
B. Light levels and vegetative period.
C. (1) 20 gallon SRBGB. (1) pool.
D. Anchorage and supports.
E. Vertical and lateral space.
F. Training, pruning and thinning.
G. No guarantees.
H. Addendum

I.A. Genetics.
Select only the strongest specimen from your lines. If seed, there really is no way to
guage what the outcome would be. Perhaps select genetics that have been tried at least
three or four occasions. Select the strongest branch for the project, having short internodes, woodier branches and no diseases or pest infestations.

I.B. Light levels and vegetative period.
Vegetative periods do not require a dark period. Full light used for flower on 24/7
for vegetation. Not required, but adds 42 hours of light energy per week when applied.
Vegetative period is where I.A. becomes important. Without being very familiar with
the specimen, it might be difficult to determine how much elongation might occur at
fruiting onset. Generally, with the light you indicated, perhaps six to eight weeks, or more, to achieve a single specimen which would cover at least half of the entire space that your currently has - before initiating flowering.

I.C. (1) 20 gallon SRBGB. (1) pool.
We would acquire (1) new pool. That would be slightly less than four feet in diameter.
We would then sit a single (1) 20 gallon SRBGB in that pool. The SRBGB would be filled with the preferred media. For us, it would probably be a mix of fine pumice and quarter to
eigth inch pumice. We would either a) top feed approximately 1 gallon per 24 hour period,
or more, if the basin pan became damp to dry, without a thin film, at the conclusion of the 24 hour period. At most, perhaps 2 to 2.5 gallons per 24 hour period. Depending on
actual consumption and evaporation rates. With that size of pool, if the gardener desired to do an actively recirculating system, they could simply place a single pump in the pan of the pool, pour 10 gallons of water into the pool, position a single feed line emitting at the top of the SRBGB, and turn it on 24/7. Simply re-filling the pool to approximately 2 to 3 inches of water (approximately 7-10 gallons in that sized pool), or more precisely, so that the intake for the pump was always underwater. When using an SRBGB, the roots would grow into that pool, unrestricted by any `media wick`, or anything else. That is one approach that we used, rather effective and limited moving parts, limited feed lines, etc. We would generally have at least 3 pumps for every single 20 gallon SRBGB station. We would swap out those pumps and all of the feed lines every week or so, to clean. Yet another approach is the float valve method, which we are still developing, which would be a large tank above a pool, or other basin, switched to `on` or `off` by, at least in part, the level in the basin depleting. Hand water, if possible, would be the preferred method, reduces waste and overwatering, or, to put it another way, `over-systeming`.

I.D. Anchorage and supports.
Very important. We would probably create a ceiling support system to drop lines from to
hold the branches and terminal flowers. We would also employ about 36 to 48 bamboo stakes per single 20 gallon SRBGB. There really is never too much anchorage or supports. The branches have less stress to keep themselves upright and less energy is expended maintaining turgor pressure. We would generally stake at the base of the branch, the middle and just beneath the terminal flower. We would additionally attach some form of line to the same area around the terminal flower base, to further support it from the top.
During this (endless) process of rearranging branches, I.E. and I.F. become important.

I.E. Vertical and lateral space.
We would allocate approximately 36 cubic feet for each specimen in a 20 gallon SRBGB.
That is, we would picture a large box, similar to what a four washing machines in a single box might appear like. That is the box we would want to fill with foliage and eventually fruit or flowers. Roughly a six by six by six volume of space. That was needed
due to I.D. When proper anchorage and supports were used with larger plants or trees, the resulting branches and shoots would be spread out over a wider and taller area than if they had not been anchored and supported, similar to opening an umbrella. Adequate spacing
might provide better light penetration into the acquired mass of foliage that accrues after a lengthy vegetation period in a large SRBGB.

I.F. Training, pruning and thinning.
An integral part of the process. Very difficult without understanding the specifics of I.A. An endless process, especially if the gardener does not desire a large tree with
sparse or moderately sized fruit. Large plants or trees do not inherently, or by themselves, produce large flowers or fruits. It might still be the gardener`s task
to train (tying), prune (eliminating innards and new growth), and thin (reduce fruit or flower sites to maximize selected fruit or flower sites). While large plants or trees might be your objective, overgrown and unkept foliage or non-trained and supported flowers probably would not be desired and might incur other issues. Large plants or trees alone might not automatically equate to greater total fruit load; training and thinning the best genetics for that goal might be the balancing work of the soilless gardener at such a pursuit.

I.G. No guarantees.
It might be a fair amount of work to not just garden plants or tree until they are large, but to maximize the efficiency of the process at every stage.

There are no guarantees that can be relied upon for any crop, cultivar or desired fruit load. The attentive soilless gardener, might, after several occasions with the same specimen, become aware of its traits and could better deliver certain nutrients at certain times, or prune certain areas that might not develop, or know that ten to eleven weeks are the actual time required to finish the flowering or fruiting process properly.

Solid opinions and observations
(once again)...

For me...
This is a great road map from which to work from.
Just a lot of well thought out
and perfectly presented information.
The effort you put forth in your
reply's truly show you kind and giving character .

There really are no magic incantations that produce `trees`. In fact, it is difficult to
even define what a `tree` is, objectively or subjectively. For the purposes of this
post, we will abandon total fruit load as a variable and focus on the foliage mass. This is due to this instance in which it appears that you have not attempted to `max-out` your garden by only trying two, or a single plant or tree in that area. You might not be fully aware of all the constant variable and adjustments required for a larger plant or tree to develop healthily throughout the season. We might consider a small `tree` to be of at least sixteen cubic feet of foliage mass, or picture 16 12 inch by 12 inch by 12 inch boxes stacked onto a pallet in rows and columns of 4. A larger `tree` might be a similar picture, yet with 36 `boxes`, or six feet by six feet by six feet.

My 1st season was real eye
opener and almost
caused me to quit growing all together.

After a couple months of reflecting
on the season and looking at
all the dried bud that was simply un~smoke-able
(Due to spraying for mite's in late flowering)
and not having a clue about the right soil mix to use... lol

I realized that the experiences gained
was more than enough payback
for the cost of the lost season.
Something like
12 oz (dried and trimmed)
simple thrown away.

When setting up my goals for my 5 years journey
and deciding what it was I am after.

The 1st thing I came to terms with
(Which has truly taken the pressure off)
was that this is not going to be for
financial gains at this point.

I wont get into the reason
I dont believe this to be a good time
to try and break into the MMJ,
Even with pounds of the kindest nugs
one could hope for(high Bag appeal)...

As it would take another page to get it all out... :woohoo:

I (for what ever reason) believe that
in 3-6 years we in the U.S.
will have some form of De-criminalized
(on a federal Level ) 420 law.

I simply want to ready for the day
I can open a store (Clones/seeds)
Pay the state and uncle sam their taxes
and not worry about getting locked in a cage
for years on end
(before or after I made a boat load of greenbacks...lol)

I guess what im trying to express is...
( im a little high...Shhhh...)

Until the end of season 4 I have the freedom
(self given)
to have any season go to shit
and as long as I've learned a boat load.
I'm golden and carefree....

The best way to think of my grows are Leaning curve grows.
I try to not me at peek production
yet at the same time
I am looking for the skills and understanding
needed to achieve peek production.

This season has provided me with both
smoke and experiences beyond my set
goals and it is not even over yet...

understanding life itself is fluid and tomorrow unknown.
I have simple main goals for each season and add to
desires to see this and that as I go.

Season 3 is to put into practice what I've gained to date.
To prove only to me..
That I could in fact understand
and in fact have gained the skills/knowledge needed to
achieve a production/quantity size plant/grow.

To me a test of ability needs to be a challenge and not easily
undertaken...

I do understand the multi layers of complexities
that come along with trying to grow trees
(singular plant gaining you 1 lb of finished medication)
Being my simpleton definition of a tree... lol

We would probably maintain one side of the garden with your existing system, in case everything did not go as desired. On the other side, we would place a single specimen into a single 20 gallon SRBGB in a single pool, between the two lamps on either side. Perhaps when the foliage covered the entire pool, and began growing over the edge of the pools` walls, initiating flower.

Still, no guarantees. Just sharing potential options that might be considered by the soilless gardener.

I value you opinions highly and appreciate you sharing them...
Nothing set in stone and I have already gone through a good 10 thoughts/builds of what to do for season 3.

I feel this idea of 2 pools with one
plant/strain each having a long veg time
(summer break for me)
Training is a joy, not a job for me.

I dont care if the season goes great and
I only pull 15 oz total or just at the tail end
it all goes south and whatever.. lol

As long as I get to a point in the flowering
that would prove to myself.
I could have
(if not for whatever stupid thing I did that kills it all)
made it to a estimated pound per...

I will call it a success and move
forward to season 4.

If I fail my season 4
will be the same as this season(2)
with 6 plants / 1 strain per pool
for a re education season...lol

I.H. Addendum
1. Dehumidification. With larger plants or trees, dehumidification might be a sound
input into the garden. A lot (5 to 10, or more) gallons of water could be pushed out of leaves and the garden over the course of a single 24 hour period.

2. pH. 5.0 - 5.5 to maintain a slightly acid media and external reservoir. pH might tend to drift into an alkaline state when a fair amount of vegetative (nitrate based) nutrients are used.

3. Apply calcium separately every week or two to make certain it is getting into and up through the plant or tree.

4. Silicon for stronger stems and branches and moderate pest defense.

5. Feed lighter strength solutions, even feed-water-feed. With longer vegetative cycles,
there might be more opportunity for accumulation of reactive compounds or solids forming in the media.

6. The less coco coir the better. Tends to attract insects, hold too much water, affect nutrient availability and pH. Also, more difficult to re-use. By employing pumice, perlite, or other inert rock based substrates, the entire soil less mix can be completely re-used.

This should be in a sticky someplace..
Flip-pen Gold guys...

CONCLUSION
These are merely some points that we might consider if the goal were larger plants or trees in a relatively `moderately` sized garden. Not any definitive points, but perhaps some areas that might be examined. We are not endorsing any of the above. They are only random concepts that may, or may not be possibly applicable to a given soilless garden. It would be the soilless gardener that might experiment with `maxing-out` their area to actually find if that area could support such a goal, then adjusting the points in need of such at the forward gardens.

There are several threads throughout the forums by members achieving, if not your goals,
close to those marks. In each, you might find that the gardeners had done a fair amount of experimenting (with larger plants or trees) prior to reaching those marks, and ultimately tried to keep the process as simple as possible.

Simple is as simple does... lol
If successful..
I will have simply applied many growers hard learned lesson...
With the help of some of the best growers and thinkers
(insert your name here) :biggrin:

and quite a few others
that have already helped me achieve my goals so far.

I am confident, I can achieve some self
mind blowing results next season...

If successful next season (1 lb per )
IMHO
I will have shoved 6-10
years of growing experiences and knowledge
into 4 years.
Saving myself (how much time,money,stress) lol

Priceless stuff o me..

A 20 gallon SRBGB in a pool, fed either once per day by hand or 24/7 from a single pump might be a relatively simple option - yet that would not be any guarantee of reaching the goal, as the primary element of success in that pursuit might be accrued awareness of the variables in that field of pursuits.
That is not to post that your desire and acumen would not propel your garden to the state you are seeking.
Any gardener with the space and desire could possibly reach similar marks of achievement relevant to the goals they set.

Again, there are no magic or shortcut involved that we could determine, and certainly no guarantees to any prospective fruit or flower load.

Totally on the same page and talking
the same language...

Im hoping to plant a seed in the back of
your mind that lead you into a pool at some point.
( Pools are quickly becoming my thing)lol

Given the foundation and resources you have, which I lack.
I would be more than happy to find someone wanting
(even achieving much more success than I)
to take my work/desires and expands upon them...

Its all about my minds eye... :crazy:

Im more than happy seeing someone eles
show me how to get er dun.

I have seen whats in my tent right this second.
(with my minds eye)

Since the second I came across a Kiddie pool joke challenge
in another and my minds eye saw pools full of doughnuts.

The second I saw a picture of a 10 lb tree, the pot it was in and
How it was achieved...

I can see through my minds eye
the top of my tent 80% filled with
heavy frosted de fanned colas with hundreds of stings holding the monster up.

I also see a couple different paths to achieve this canopy.
Some much more difficult than others..

I can in fact see this
and
with any luck
I will show you what my minds eye see's.
Just as you can
now see
a tent with pools full of doughnuts
that was stuck in my head for months.

Guess that why I like taking pictures so much...
:biggrin:

We hope that this post might be helpful.

Kind regards,
/SRGB/

You have no idea
HOW MUCH
you help me
in more ways
than one.

:ying:

.

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 10, 2013

Some of my root work...
I worked on these for good 6 years
in order to get what was in my minds eye..lol

Which I have totally abandoned
beyond watering over the past 2 years...ops...

View image in gallery

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 10, 2013

I could now turn that in to this
Just bigger and better...

View image in gallery

The canopy on this tree must weigh a good 10 pounds easy and the roots support it through wind storms every year.

I Love, looking at these,
kinda make me want to get out back and clean thing up..lol :woohoo:

.

Born Loser · Jul 10, 2013

Good stuff in the dawghouse.

Do your thing brother. Take the good advice (LIGHT!) and see what you can come up with.

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 10, 2013

Hey Bro......Rule of thumb for big plants has ALWAYS been a minimum of a 5 x 5 area PER plant , AND it needsta be a 50/50 "Sat/Ind" hybrid for the upper stretch to accommodate the full potential of vertical bare bulbs hangin......IOW.....

The 5x5 per is whats popping
my bubble at this point.
im already thinking of how I could
move the complete exhaust and ducting
off the ceiling and perhaps
out of the tent all together.

Giving me maximum growth space.
Also, though I dont think possible I would like to lower
the pools to the floor giving me more space.
As i type this my minds eye comes up with.. lol

This might done by say taking a pool and making
it the bottom tote by adding a
PVC frame in the center and holding the top pool say 5"
off the ground, allowing for a PWT and room
for wicks :woohoo:

A 3 lb`er is most definitely strain dependent as well as system driven , and although I`m sure once dialed with said proper hybrid the PPK/Love Machine is capable of doing so , but........

My True/main goal
for season 3 is for 1 pound per.
To achieve this
I plan to shoot for 3-5 pounds per
cause..

Im just a Dawg that dont know
he cant do what he does,
till its already done and over..
:biggrin:

It`s still gonna take runs under yer belt to learn howta clean out the insides of sucker branches while opening up the plants for better lumen penetration and air movement to prevent any airborn pathogens from proliferating in late bloomage......that said.....

So true and accepted risk taken
(nothing gained but knowledge/lessons)
if i lock this grow in and move forward
with it.....

It's insights just as this
that
I believe will allow me to
at least achieve my 1 lb per goal
and move forward.

Texas Kid ran some single plants in kiddie pools back some yrs ago with elevated humidity levels and proper watts per sq ft with a good deal of success with DTW coco if memory serves , but regardless....

Big plants need their own area to breathe and absorb proper wattage IME....I never got more than 2 1/2 lb`ers outta my mex skunk hybrid back in the day and she was dialed to fuck and back with only 34 watts per sq ft , so again strain dependent and learnin how ta exploit said strain will up bottom line returns.....bet on it.....anyways.....

Holler if I can help , but HL`s killin it with my suggested 4 plant 5 light setup , and he`s got full illustrated blow by blow details , so I`ll be on my bucket waitin fer shit ta blow up in "Dawg-ville"......but.....

10 x 10 areas for the 4 plant 5 light setup rule guaranteed.....

Peace.....Freds...........

Going ta have to Google TEXAS KID lol
I want ta see... :biggrin:

I will at some point have
or
Be in a possition to help someone with
at least 10 x 10
to work in and if ever I do
a combo of your wisdom/experiences
and D9's will shine though in every aspect...

Though I think Id love to work in rows
as D9 has and call it heaven.

Say 2 D9 set ups being on a flip
as my
ultimate stoner dream set up...

Short of a wearhouse with 10 rooms of 10 x 10 set ups ....

Now that would be a hand full... Anyways..

Tossing around Ideas and working on feasibility issues
at this point.

As for strains to grow with..

IMO
Kong could,
if done correctly
beat a lb per with ease.

GCS gave me 64g
from a 1 gallon smart pot and long spaces
between bud sites.

Incredibly heavy dense buds.
This has really got me wondering what GCS
will do in the pools and I should have an idea of
what to work with after this wave.

I could even get something proven from seedbay
over the summer and go with that.

mex skunk hybrid~

I believe the Mex Golden sativa will help
kong and BH achieve greatness in the right hands.

Which mine are far from being.

HL45 and the love machine are both pure gold
and if I thought for a second that
I could do something with a large amount
of medication and make a difference that way.

I would be aiming for a love machine or D9
clone set up for sure.

Always good ta see ya DHF...

DHF · Jul 10, 2013

My dead and gone Uncle "God rest his soul" was a pot smuggling SOB back in the mid 70`s - 80`s till Satellite imagery and EPIC(El Paso Information Center) took over air surveillance on the gulf coast due to Columbian motherships haulin tons of bullshit bales to cover up the cocaine shipments goin to the cigarette boats and he retired ......and ....

One of the trips we made to Vera Cruz Mexico landed some of the best dope we`d ever gotten over the yrs as far as being a "hybrid" instead of the Sativa-zilla`s he was usedta haulin back under ice in his shrimp boats....and....

ALL Mexican dope was semi or full seeded at the time and I ALWAYS kept the beans from good shit cuz I KNEW I was gonna grow dope at some point in the game so I stored shit in mason jars , and when the opportunity arose I went with all the varieties and ended up with my bitch as the main contributor........

Once we ran all the pure Sativas that grew 20 ft tall and MAYBE had a lb and a lil more on em come finish , I started concentrating on this donkey dick "forearm" sized colas and laterals from the "odd bitch" , and went from there.......

Needless to say all other applicants got culled and we concentrated on the yield machine that went maybe 10' tall with 2-3 lbs once dialed...and .....If anyone that`s in the know has ever run Mexican genetics they`ll tell you that ALL will hermie to proliferate the species , and they did.......but......

It just gave me more beans to play with before we knew what "clones" were and EVERY yr they`d hermie on the lower limbs and give us beanage for the upcoming season......anyways......

Too much to go into so just suffice it to say I lost her in a random break in from crack monkey`s and Chem D hasn`t got a clue how bad my bitch was , but I digress........regardless.....

Strain dependent and "dialed" is the ticket my buddy........Find it and exploit her by all means necessary , with.....adequate watts per sq ft and proper footprint to make her be all she can be as a big bitch.....

Peace.....DHF..... :ying:

......

Born Loser · Jul 10, 2013

DHF said:
My dead and gone Uncle "God rest his soul" was a pot smuggling SOB back in the mid 70`s - 80`s till Satellite imagery and EPIC(El Paso Information Center) took over air surveillance on the gulf coast due to Columbian motherships haulin tons of bullshit bales to cover up the cocaine shipments goin to the cigarette boats and he retired ......and ....

One of the trips we made to Vera Cruz Mexico landed some of the best dope we`d ever gotten over the yrs as far as being a "hybrid" instead of the Sativa-zilla`s he was usedta haulin back under ice in his shrimp boats....and....

ALL Mexican dope was semi or full seeded at the time and I ALWAYS kept the beans from good shit cuz I KNEW I was gonna grow dope at some point in the game so I stored shit in mason jars , and when the opportunity arose I went with all the varieties and ended up with my bitch as the main contributor........

Once we ran all the pure Sativas that grew 20 ft tall and MAYBE had a lb and a lil more on em come finish , I started concentrating on this donkey dick "forearm" sized colas and laterals from the "odd bitch" , and went from there.......

Needless to say all other applicants got culled and we concentrated on the yield machine that went maybe 10' tall with 2-3 lbs once dialed...and .....If anyone that`s in the know has ever run Mexican genetics they`ll tell you that ALL will hermie to proliferate the species , and they did.......but......

It just gave me more beans to play with before we knew what "clones" were and EVERY yr they`d hermie on the lower limbs and give us beanage for the upcoming season......anyways......

Too much to go into so just suffice it to say I lost her in a random break in from crack monkey`s and Chem D hasn`t got a clue how bad my bitch was , but I digress........regardless.....

Strain dependent and "dialed" is the ticket my buddy........Find it and exploit her by all means necessary , with.....adequate watts per sq ft and proper footprint to make her be all she can be as a big bitch.....

Peace.....DHF...........

great story.

There were only a handful that I kept for yrs. There was definitely some magic in those beans, but I didn't have the power (wattage) to get it all. The weather got most of them outdoors...
I hope Alien's 80s sativa has that punch.
Hit the roof of that tent. :woohoo:

Lights are cheap.

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 10, 2013

DHF said:
My dead and gone Uncle "God rest his soul" was a pot smuggling SOB back in the mid 70`s - 80`s till Satellite imagery and EPIC(El Paso Information Center) took over air surveillance on the gulf coast due to Columbian motherships haulin tons of bullshit bales to cover up the cocaine shipments goin to the cigarette boats and he retired ......and ....

One of the trips we made to Vera Cruz Mexico landed some of the best dope we`d ever gotten over the yrs as far as being a "hybrid" instead of the Sativa-zilla`s he was usedta haulin back under ice in his shrimp boats....and....

ALL Mexican dope was semi or full seeded at the time and I ALWAYS kept the beans from good shit cuz I KNEW I was gonna grow dope at some point in the game so I stored shit in mason jars , and when the opportunity arose I went with all the varieties and ended up with my bitch as the main contributor........

Once we ran all the pure Sativas that grew 20 ft tall and MAYBE had a lb and a lil more on em come finish , I started concentrating on this donkey dick "forearm" sized colas and laterals from the "odd bitch" , and went from there.......

Needless to say all other applicants got culled and we concentrated on the yield machine that went maybe 10' tall with 2-3 lbs once dialed...and .....If anyone that`s in the know has ever run Mexican genetics they`ll tell you that ALL will hermie to proliferate the species , and they did.......but......

It just gave me more beans to play with before we knew what "clones" were and EVERY yr they`d hermie on the lower limbs and give us beanage for the upcoming season......anyways......

Too much to go into so just suffice it to say I lost her in a random break in from crack monkey`s and Chem D hasn`t got a clue how bad my bitch was , but I digress........regardless.....

Strain dependent and "dialed" is the ticket my buddy........Find it and exploit her by all means necessary , with.....adequate watts per sq ft and proper footprint to make her be all she can be as a big bitch.....

Peace.....DHF...........

Sparked me a fat joint and really enjoyed this...

Were those seed monster fat freaky looking things...
Ill have to post some pictures of my freaky
Mexican bag seed beans.

All I know is when it was special
I made sure to save some..
No Idea if any are viable
yet want to find out someday.

Thanks for the great reflections...

DamnUglyDogE · Jul 10, 2013

Male B.A.T.F.

Male B.A.T.F.

Dude is waking up and fingers are crossed the
36
12
36

Light cycle will have stalled the ladies just long enough
to take his pollen...