cannabis and human evolution

[HOVAH2.0]

Im interested in the purpose of the cannibas plant in human evolution. Theres medical properties associated relieving pain but, at what point history (millions years ago ) did the a human like animal begin to identify MJ as useful to his well being, both mentally and spiritrally. Then what can we expect form the cannibas plant 1000years from now, from an evolutionary prospective, and where else will it help?

 

[siftedunity]

no one is likely to find out at which point humans first used mj. from an evolutionary perspective, if it wasnt in existance we would be smoking something else probably.

 

[chaingmai]

Right after that caveman discovered fire....

 

[siftedunity]

they wouldnt have had good weed in those days. i mean the quality has gone up since the 80s let alone the last few thousand years+

 

[SeaMaiden]

Im interested in the purpose of the cannibas plant in human evolution. Theres medical properties associated relieving pain but, at what point history (millions years ago ) did the a human like animal begin to identify MJ as useful to his well being, both mentally and spiritrally. Then what can we expect form the cannibas plant 1000years from now, from an evolutionary prospective, and where else will it help?

The furthest back archaeologists have been able to definitely put cannabis use by humans is about 5,000 years ago. The Scythians, a nomadic group of steppe-dwellers and proficient horse-people, are the ones who've put it in the archaeological record. That's not to say that more evidence going further back won't be discovered, but being of a material that doesn't remain for long in the record makes proving anything difficult. They have to go to gathering pollen grains and then matching, which IIRC may require something a bit stronger than just a good microscope (scanning electron, I believe).

Now that we're able to sequence DNA and have somewhat standardized rates of genetic change over time, we may be able to look at the genome of the plant itself and say when humans began fussing around with it.

Now, other drug and medicinal plant use...? I'm sure it's been going on for eons, far beyond our existence as Homo sapiens. Hell, we've already pushed back art, and have discovered that Neandertal made art. I think quite a lot is going to be pushed back, archaeologically-speaking.

 

[highonmt]

This is a fascinating topic. It is quite likely that the cultivation of hemp was initially begun as many archaeologists imagine. The seeds would have been collected by hunter gather groups who realized they were desireable food. After consumption and disposal the plants were likely seen sprouting form waste piles ie midden heap cultivation which was likely the start of all cultivation.
I seems you are interested in the effect the entheogenic properties of cannabis have had and will have on the evolution of our species. You are not alone in wondering this. R Gordon Wasson wrote a wonderful book call 'Linguist of the Ineffable' In which he proposes that entheogenic plants and fungi may have played a significant role in the development of language,religion and culture. Imagine what people thought when they ate a bunch of cannabis flowers packed with seed and felt the effects...or some ergot infected grass...must have been life changing.
HM

 

[SeaMaiden]

We already observe animals eating fermenting fruit and getting high. I've read that reindeer sometimes eat psylocybin (sp?) mushrooms. I've seen documentaries showing chimpanzees consuming the leaves of an inedible plant in a particular manner to rid themselves of parasites.

I think that early humans likely used many plants both medicinally and recreationally. I'm thinking Clan of the Cave Bears-stylee! I'm thinking that we may push that activity back in time and evolution, just as we're doing with representational art and music.

 

[whodare]

Well moses spoke to the burning bush...

And the chinese have records of its use dating back 5000 bc

And they've found intact flowers and seeds preserved with a mummy...



So I'd say longer than most of our staple food crops....


A long fucking time.

 

[whodare]

We already observe animals eating fermenting fruit and getting high. I've read that reindeer sometimes eat psylocybin (sp?) mushrooms. I've seen documentaries showing chimpanzees consuming the leaves of an inedible plant in a particular manner to rid themselves of parasites.

I think that early humans likely used many plants both medicinally and recreationally. I'm thinking Clan of the Cave Bears-stylee! I'm thinking that we may push that activity back in time and evolution, just as we're doing with representational art and music.

Amanita muscaria is what they eat.

Shaman would eat them, process out the bad stuff, and people would drink the urine that had actives still.

Some believe santas flying reindeer may have originated from this.

 

[highonmt]

Amanita muscaria is what they eat.

Shaman would eat them, process out the bad stuff, and people would drink the urine that had actives still.

Some believe santas flying reindeer may have originated from this.

Not so much processing the bad stuff as lapps tripping there ass off and sharing the wealth...ibotinic acid and muscimol are very potent and freaky as hell... And you wonder why santa wears a red and white suit and drives a sleigh of flying reindeer. Also have you noticed this mushroom in any fairy tales? They are there for a reason.

Plants,fungi, and humans go back a long long way. Back to the trees and savannas of africa really. As we advance in science we will likely uncover many more links between us and them. Iboga, ergot, psylocybe, aminita m., salvia, cannabis, Trichocereus , Lophophora, lets not even visit the rainforests... the list is long and dynamic we are inexorably linked to the diet, sacraments and environment of our ancestors.
HM

 

[MrSterling]

Robert Clarke's "Hashish" is a great read if you're interested in the history of cannabis use. Clarke's theory, which I mostly agree with, is that cannabis was used for a food crop for its seeds long before we discovered its use, and that the discovery probably came from the burning seeds we have discovered in burial tombs. His further conclusion is that hashish as a tradition is older than smoking cannabis itself and that ingestion of resins off the hands while picking seeds is a likely way we discovered cannabis' effect. It's good to remember most of the smoking world from the middle east to asia preferred hashish. Places with high humidity cure their buds and smoke them, low humidity tends to lead to hashish production.

As for evolution? Must have been millions of years ago; think of all the life forms other than us that have cannabinoid receptors.

 

[HOVAH2.0]

So we do have evidence that other animals use MJ for various reasons... I see dogs on the street and in despensories run staggering from something theyve ate..... I know one particular owner who accuses his dog of stealing his herb, so he hides it from the dog! The plant understands any partnership with any species is benefical to its survival, so it building an additional realtionship with the dog. One thousand years from now maybe we will see dogs cultruvating MJ, changing both species in the process.
Maybe MJ will be the engine to allow dogs the communicate verbally with Humans in the future, endless possiblities, evolution.

 

[dasher65]

My stoner mates & I were discussing this the other night.

It's generally accepted that human involvement with cannabis dates back some 5,000 years. It's also generally accepted that the oldest civilization is probably the Australian Aborigine, which has been separated from most of mankind for most that time.

Incredibly the Aborigine has all the Cannabinoid receptors as the rest of us but he "evolved" CBD receptors without the influence of Cannabis being part of his culture...

Hmmm...how could that work!!! No cannabis ingestion would likely lead to no Cannabinoid receptors being developed???

 

[highonmt]

My stoner mates & I were discussing this the other night.

It's generally accepted that human involvement with cannabis dates back some 5,000 years. It's also generally accepted that the oldest civilization is probably the Australian Aborigine, which has been separated from most of mankind for most that time.

Incredibly the Aborigine has all the Cannabinoid receptors as the rest of us but he "evolved" CBD receptors without the influence of Cannabis being part of his culture...

Hmmm...how could that work!!! No cannabis ingestion would likely lead to no Cannabinoid receptors being developed???

The cannabinoid receptor system developed independently of the cannabis plant in all human populations. The receptor system was named cannabiniod because the compounds isolated from the cannabis genus were the receptor antagonists first isolated and used to identify this receptor system. The cannabinoids in our bodies ie endocannabinoids are structurally dissimilar to the benzopyran cannabiniods of the cannabis plant. The fact that cannabis has compounds that our active cannabiniods is a chance fate or luck depending on your point of view.
HM

 

[dasher65]

That night we decided that cannabis was possibly created with humans in mind. It seems that its most unique properties have its most use with humans.


Did cannabis evolve to form compounds most useful to humans to enable survival or did humans evolve to take advantage of cannas unique properties...or...

was it "created" specifically with man in mind???

Here is a plant that thrives in just about any climate without our help...clearly shows its sex on separate plants for our advantage..and has so many unique chemical compounds that may well contain the cures of most ailments in mankind.

 

[highonmt]

That night we decided that cannabis was possibly created with humans in mind. It seems that its most unique properties have its most use with humans.


Did cannabis evolve to form compounds most useful to humans to enable survival or did humans evolve to take advantage of cannas unique properties...or...

was it "created" specifically with man in mind???

Here is a plant that thrives in just about any climate without our help...clearly shows its sex on separate plants for our advantage..and has so many unique chemical compounds that may well contain the cures of most ailments in mankind.

Thats a heavy philosophical argument man, maybe you guys should just talk about baseball and tities like other guys...lol.

An extremely interesting plant that is for sure. The real trip is how we discovered an entire signaling system in our bodies through this amazing plant. The cannabiniod receptor system is implicated in many bodily functions including inflamation which is at the heart of many of our worst diseases like cancer, arthritis, arteriosclerosis etc as you noted.
Had it not been for cannabis showing us the way it is quite likely we would still not know of the existence of this important system. The cannabinoid receptors are fat soluble so they are extremely hard to characterize without a bound ligand. Radio labled THC and CBD were used to find the receptors and thereby were found endogenous cannabinoids which were unknown but obviously very important to our wellbeing. Since then people have found phytocannabinoids in several species of plants including our much beloved piper nigrum the source of black pepper which contains a cannabinoid called beta-caryophylene.
HM

 

[futuyama]

Would it be possible to put a date on the start of cultivation (of hemp at least) using genetic/molecular techniques? I know molecular dating can be used to date divergence of species, but is there anyway to show human involvement? I mean, the genome would be altered incredibly quickly under artificial selection.

 

[GP73LPC]

Im interested in the purpose of the cannibas plant in human evolution. Theres medical properties associated relieving pain but, at what point history (millions years ago ) did the a human like animal begin to identify MJ as useful to his well being, both mentally and spiritrally. Then what can we expect form the cannibas plant 1000years from now, from an evolutionary prospective, and where else will it help?

try this link, shows the history of medical cannabis...

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000143

 

[BullDogUK]

Hemp has been one of the preferred materials for clothes making for thousands of years, however there is little to no fiber in buds so I find it incredibly hard to imagine them not being stored for some other purpose by subsistence farmers across the globe and throughout history.

We know that farming communities typically flavored their liquors with herbs and cannabis definitely has a pungent smell and taste, again I doubt that in 7000-5000 years of cultivation, no one thought to put the two together. The hydrophobic properties of cannabinoids make them insoluble in water however they remain soluble in alcohol so they would've surely had some effect.

As to smoking cannabis; how far back in history do we find pipes? Tobacco wasn't brought back to Europe 'til the 16th century, so what the hell were they smoking before then? We have evidence that Shakespeare smoked weed http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/1195939.stm. There is also a cave near to my hometown, known as the Devil's Arse. Up until about the 19th century people lived in this cave and wove ropes, naturally using hemp. Pipes recovered from this site have all been found to contain traces of hemp so go figure.

 

[offthehook]

The cannabinoid receptor system developed independently of the cannabis plant in all human populations. The receptor system was named cannabiniod because the compounds isolated from the cannabis genus were the receptor antagonists first isolated and used to identify this receptor system. The cannabinoids in our bodies ie endocannabinoids are structurally dissimilar to the benzopyran cannabiniods of the cannabis plant. The fact that cannabis has compounds that our active cannabiniods (mimics?)is a chance fate or luck depending on your point of view.
HM

You make it sound like a fact, why would that be?


I like to think that we've coexisted /coevolved with this plant ever since we as a 'first mammals' arrived, and watched the dino's go extinct.

So we prolly must have been the size of a rat, and one cannabis seed would have prolly equaled something like a half peanutbutter sandwich in compare to modern days humans size.

Coevolution is a beautifull thing, as one will be shaping the other as we go and vice versa.

The plant helped making us who we are now, we helped making the plant as it is.

Over a time span of millions of years using this concept... Involving countless 'mutually case sensitive situations' leading to an outcome of some kind... It remains hard for me to believe that it was all just a matter of luck or chance that by now we appear ment to each other.

Now if we both each would have evolved on a different planet maybe... Nah, I better leave that to the 'inside the head /mental expansion' hobbyists on history channel. lol

Since several micro organisms also seem to have cannabinoid receptors alike, then who is to say this could not be a collective feature that some of our life forms prefered to maintain througout all of our past uptill now, and was activated by a collective denominator at microbe level?