Can synethic nutrients increase your risk of cancer?
- Thread starter Jayson420
- Start date
G
guest456mpy
Weird,
I am not against organic growing. My son still runs my farm in the same way my grandfather did, abiet not cannabis for obvious reasons. We even inter crop with plants that deter pests. I understand organic farming and it's true value, not something I read on the "inter-web".
But to insist that non-organically grown products cause cancer is nothing I would ever say or claim. It borders on fringe fanaticism and I would have a hard time proving it. I stand by the belief that the primary reason to use organics is to be a good steward of the earth, the animals and the indigenous benign insects, not due to any health hazards.
BTW I'm over 70 so you do the math and figure out if Tom Hill could possibly be my grandfather.
Try not to get too upset with the thread arguments, Weird. If you have a stroke cancer will be your last thing to worry about. Ask me how I know.
I am not against organic growing. My son still runs my farm in the same way my grandfather did, abiet not cannabis for obvious reasons. We even inter crop with plants that deter pests. I understand organic farming and it's true value, not something I read on the "inter-web".
But to insist that non-organically grown products cause cancer is nothing I would ever say or claim. It borders on fringe fanaticism and I would have a hard time proving it. I stand by the belief that the primary reason to use organics is to be a good steward of the earth, the animals and the indigenous benign insects, not due to any health hazards.
BTW I'm over 70 so you do the math and figure out if Tom Hill could possibly be my grandfather.
Try not to get too upset with the thread arguments, Weird. If you have a stroke cancer will be your last thing to worry about. Ask me how I know.
The state of Oregon has already tested 'popular MJ' fertilizer brands, search for your brand here:
http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/search.lasso
What you'll notice on average is that a lot of organic brands contain higher levels of heavy metals as compared to 'synthetic' brands. While both are well below the state of Oregon's maximums, that's an interesting fact to note.
Interesting example: Miracle Grow's 15-30-15 plant food contains less arsenic, mercury and cadmium than the Bloom formula (3-6-4) from Roots Organic.
OniusOniusOnius
Member
Hey! I use that site all the time. But what you've go to remember is that this page doesn't show all the ingredients... including harmful resins used by Miracle Grow to slow release ferts. Besides, unamended MG makes succulent plants which are more susceptible to PM and mite attack. People should be adding silica, magnesium, and sulfur to MG to make it worthwhile.
Also, a soil with mycorrhizae and bacteria can filter the heavy metals. Cannabis uses heavy metals (Ni, As, ect) in higher amounts when it is deficient of a more common element (N, P, K, ect) to replace them. With proper feeding and soil biology, organic farmers will produce cannabis with lower heavy metals in the finished product than a chemical grow using a medium that doesn't support micro-organisms. This is despite the organic nutrients carrying more heavy metals in general.
This issue has been discussed around here before
Phosphorus Poison - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=226560
This is a good point.
People misunderstand organic growing and organic fertilizers.
Plants can readily take up salt based fertilizers, therefore, it is possible to provide them with more salts than they need - or (potentially) more salts than are good for the people consuming them
In an organic garden plants plants can only uptake what microbes process. Furthermore, the plant plays an active role in controlling both the chemistry and the biology in the root zone so as to regulate nutrient uptake. The plant does this by producing root exudates to stimulate bacteria and to affect pH. Farmers that use salts manipulate this process and take the plant out of the loop. Just because your organic fish hydrolysate contains a small amount of mercury (mine contains less than 0.05 ppm) doesn't mean that the plant is going to up take that mercury.
Organic growers that grow in beds will notice that their plants yellow out and fade at the end of flowering, but that when new plants planted in the same soil they grow lush and green. What this suggest is to me is that the toward the end of its life cycle our plant regulates itself and the soil biology in such a way as to reduce the uptake of nutrients even in a soil environment that is rich in organic fertilizers. There is a long discussion of this in the thread below.
Yellowing is not necessarily a lack of N - https://www.icmag.com/ic//showthread.php?t=190022
Really? Check the infirmary.
Pine
Phosphorus Poison - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=226560
This is a good point.
People misunderstand organic growing and organic fertilizers.
Plants can readily take up salt based fertilizers, therefore, it is possible to provide them with more salts than they need - or (potentially) more salts than are good for the people consuming them
In an organic garden plants plants can only uptake what microbes process. Furthermore, the plant plays an active role in controlling both the chemistry and the biology in the root zone so as to regulate nutrient uptake. The plant does this by producing root exudates to stimulate bacteria and to affect pH. Farmers that use salts manipulate this process and take the plant out of the loop. Just because your organic fish hydrolysate contains a small amount of mercury (mine contains less than 0.05 ppm) doesn't mean that the plant is going to up take that mercury.
Organic growers that grow in beds will notice that their plants yellow out and fade at the end of flowering, but that when new plants planted in the same soil they grow lush and green. What this suggest is to me is that the toward the end of its life cycle our plant regulates itself and the soil biology in such a way as to reduce the uptake of nutrients even in a soil environment that is rich in organic fertilizers. There is a long discussion of this in the thread below.
Yellowing is not necessarily a lack of N - https://www.icmag.com/ic//showthread.php?t=190022
Really? Check the infirmary.
Pine
G
guest456mpy
Yes, I see your point and forget that some may not have the basic skills needed to apply them properly and totally concur on your point. Skills are needed for either method though, equally so. As I have been growing everything (not just cannabis) on a large scale since I was a young child I forget how steep the learning curve is or that one even exists.
There's also a fair amount of work and three times the area unless we are talking bottled organics. BTW I'm not implying that bottled organics is inherently bad, it just that I won't pay for what nature will do for much less cost given enough time and the proper environment. It's really great if anyone personally wants to grow organically for their own enjoyment, and I'm not against it.
But I will never claim either method is safer or more likely to cause cancer. Maybe with more research and data, but not at present.
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I have a small organic farm (400w cab) and I think organic growing (without bottles) is almost no work. I top dress dry organic fertilizers a couple times per cycle and maybe brew a compost tea or two, and that's about it. I recently went through a whole cycle growing SSH where I did absolutely nothing but water for 17 weeks. I grow in a tote and when harvest time comes I just chop to stumps and re-plant; no new soil, no mixing, measuring, ect.
I'm not sure about other growing communities, but the organic community here has moved away from bottles and store bought products and toward a natural farming concept using things like homemade compost and EWC, plant meals (which you can grow yourself), cover crops, and quality soil-dirt and mulch material from outside.
Pine
G
guest456mpy
Pinecone, I think that if you and I sat down there would be more in common than you think.
I will say however in the defense of my statement in my personal situation that when I was young I though of this as no work too. After messing my back up and considering the actual logistics of getting any kind of soil to my grow the 1 1/2 lb weight of a brick of GH brick of coco is orders of magnitude lighter. I no longer live on a farm with my door virtually at ground level and organic soil a wheelbarrow trip away (LOL)
BTW I, too, am a sativa lover. My current grow is some 100% sativa Guawi, from one of the vendors here.
Thanks for the actual discussion instead of argumentative posting. That sort of stuff becoming all too frequent lately. Not just ICMag either.
It's all up to each grower and their set of circumstances what they choose, and wouldn't think of influencing the way you grow. Only you know what your circumstances are and you shouldn't have to substantiate your decisions.
I will say however in the defense of my statement in my personal situation that when I was young I though of this as no work too. After messing my back up and considering the actual logistics of getting any kind of soil to my grow the 1 1/2 lb weight of a brick of GH brick of coco is orders of magnitude lighter. I no longer live on a farm with my door virtually at ground level and organic soil a wheelbarrow trip away (LOL)
I never went the bottle method, but IMHO it's good to see people moving away from that method if they had. The only real community I belong to here is that of the individual breeders on the Boo/Bay section. Better S/N ratios on those forums and less BS
BTW I, too, am a sativa lover. My current grow is some 100% sativa Guawi, from one of the vendors here.
Thanks for the actual discussion instead of argumentative posting. That sort of stuff becoming all too frequent lately. Not just ICMag either.
I suspect we have a lot in common. I mean just because you grow with salts and I don't? That doesn't matter to me.
I think the trick to making it easy and cheap is soil re-use so you only have to buy and truck stuff in once (in a long while).
Thought (am thinking) about growing that strain or another strain from that vendor. Problem is that I already have lots of seeds. I like smoking the sativas better and I enjoy the challenge of growing them in my smallish space.
Pine
SKUNK420
Member
I hear & understand what you are saying about the link between cancer and synthetics. It's good common sense, less synthetics in our blood stream the better our bodies will be. I'm still of the opinion regardless of the history of man and it's use of smoking before synthetics, mans life expectancy was not very long way back then as compared today with all the synthetic crap we ingest today. We are living longer some cancer free some not so cancer free.
What about synthetics in medicine? That's a whole other can of worms with a lot good results and a lot horrible results. We as "man" think we can solve every aliment that we have with a "pill" or treat like Chemotherapy instead of accepting the fact that man is not perfect and some will live regardless of how they treat their body's and other will die no matter how well they take care of their body's. I not saying we shouldn't try but.....
That's why I now of the opinion that because man keeps cancer people alive with medicine and then they reproduce to spread the cancer gene creating super cancer genes. I also feel that there are things that we can not measure yet or have not found to exist through science. Think about all the work going into understanding DNA. So for what all these doctors and scientists know about their cancer drugs and tests claiming people are cured or in remission. Those people might not really be cured and they are still passing the cancer genes on when they reproduce.
In the animal world all they do is eat, shit, store food for the winter and reproduce. Animals do not try to cure cancer or invent useless internet crap ( facebook & twitter). They let the weak die. Ever watch the cheetahs or lions leave one of their own behind or even their new born cubs when the hyenas show up? Animals will only fight to a certain point then they say screw it I'll have another baby or they die from their battle wounds.
I sometimes wonder who are the "real" animals them or us. What just because we can talk , blog endlessly on the internet, facebook & twitter and put a man on the moon....allegedly that we are the superior beings on this plant? There are people who now think they are soo smart and compassionate that they want to sue others on behalf of animals. The Peta lawsuit against Sea World comes to mind. If that was the case those people should lead by example and kill themselves.
I hate people who think their shit don't stink, who think they are more enlightened then the rest of us all the while they are using synthetic products, burning fossil fuel, driving a Toyota Prius that still produces brake dust and use gear oils, etc....
I'm also of the opinion the subject of this thread will lead to an argument.
edit: Ya I thought someone might be butt hurt. Basically in a nut shell. My shit stinks but I don't over hype myself as a self righteous tree hugger. I race cars which means using fossil fuels and do big smokey burn outs, I surf ( waste of gas and water taking 2 showers day sometimes, waste electricity by my use of the internet etc and I not going to change a damn thing but I will adapt. On occasion I pour a quart of oil in the ocean to spite and honor Al Gore's big a$$ house and his private jet use. I surf in water that's right next to Tijuana , what? I'll probably still live longer then you.
