how about you show me proof that shows pests (be it mold/pm/mites etc) build up a resistance to chemical compounds vs organic chemical compounds.
Can ANYONE name the poison Eagle 20 with the active ingredient Myclobutanil??
- Thread starter EclipseFour20
- Start date
- Status
how about you show me proof that shows pests (be it mold/pm/mites etc) build up a resistance to chemical compounds vs organic chemical compounds.
Did that big ole biology degree teach you how to answer a question with a question?
No one said organic controls are limited to chemical compounds. Organic controls could be as simple as using beneficial insects to kill the offending insects or crop rotation but I can play your game too.
Neem Oil
"As mentioned previously, azadirachtin has a number of different modes of action. It is less likely that insects or pathogens will develop resistance to neem products compared to materials with a single mode of action."
http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/homegrnd/htms/neem.htm
The long term control is better since there are no recorded cases of insects developing resistance to neem oil.
http://www.plasmaneem.com/plasma-neem-oil-botanical-insecticide-pesticide.html
Controlled experiments confirmed that rice seedlings raised from seed treated with neem kernel extract or cake were vigorous and resistant to rice leafhoppers and planthoppers. Early observations that neem leaves were not attacked by swarming locusts were also confirmed in laboratory studies and attributed to neem's anti feedant activity against locusts.
http://www.ottawaorchidsociety.com/neem_oil.htm
And this is just neem oil.
Now lets see yours?
Neo 420 - Hey you heard of karanja oil? I just got a gallon from ****. Wild and handcrafted and of course OMRI. Also got a gallon of neem from em. Mix it 50% of the normal, so 1/2 oz/gal each and the synergy of the two is greater than the sum. Hit me up if you need more info. Don't want to look like I'm peddlin wares on here...
Karanja oil is the shit. PM the sourcing info. Thanks!!!
S
SeaMaiden
There is really no other way to say this, but I am incredulous that you hold a bio degree.
I'll call myself an autodidact.
I'll call myself an autodidact.
thanks!
eitherway sea maden, you hate eagle 20 and ive noticed one of your reasons is that the pm will build up a resistance if not used correctly. will you not be in favour of it if it was used to the point of eradicating pm in a given grow room?
tbh there are so many things in this world which hold dangers from the fibres in sofas to the eagle 20 etc. so many toxins etc, i really think eagle20 is just one of many things which could do with changing.
if you hate eagle 20 or chemicals on your bud, grow your own.
if you are willing to take the risk, dont worry about it. tbh ive never had pm. but id quarantine any new cuts. if i seem pm they go in the bin. if you go in your garden or others, change your clothes etc when you go in yours. keep conditions clean, and optimum, have good airflow and move things around now and again so you dont have stagnant unaired corners etc.thats what i do. i wont even cut veg up for dinne and touch my plants, im that cautious about it.
peace folks
yeah it did!
serious quite an interesting read. so because neem affects pm with more than one action, it is harder to build a resistance to.
so how about a multi action chemical spray. or would that still be out of bounds for you?
i found the locust thing quite interesting but if it works so well, im suprised they dont use it for locust infestations in australia and what not. but i think its because neem takes up to 10 days to effect them which is not fast acting enough for a swarm of locust. they apparently use a biochemical now anyway which is non toxic and only infects the locust rather than a general insecticide.
eitherway that kinda brings me on to my next point, the money has not really been put into cannabis to cure some parasites or disease so many growers have a limited choice. especially if you have a large crop that your worried about losing and you want it cured asap. anyway interesting topic and cheers for the links. quite interesting.
...tbh there are so many things in this world which hold dangers from the fibres in sofas to the eagle 20 etc. so many toxins etc, ...
Hello all,
Yeah I would have to agree. The modern world is full of petrochemical products. Its everywhere. Walk into a US grocery store and as you entry, look for the warning signs of know cancenogenic materials used or found within the premisses.
That does not include what is used on the fresh produce prior to sales. The grocery store we go to has the worst flavor fruits and veggies I have ever had and that is why they are so cheap(relatively). But the pesticide residues are present. To go with organic is not cost effective unless you can afford it. So I am left with no veggies (during the non-growing season) or take the risk. Most folks including myself just put in the back of our brain and go about eating what we know to be chemicals that are not found naturally in the food.
Yeah, the most organic wholesome natural product is what we all want. I have PM and am using a natural product (Greencure) to deal with it and it is working. However, it can be said that potassium bicarbonte on your buds is a foriegn substance as well leaving a residue.
So, how purest one is will dictate what one uses to combat a problem. Yet another risk to reward decision to be made of MJ.
As to passing buds with known pesticide residue without informing them is wrong. That is why there are warning signs at grocery store hospital, jails and such.
Next year I will get better cuts from acclimated strains in the 707 to avoid PM through genetics.
minds_I
Yes My point exactly. That is why I use the least amount possible of anything be it organic or chemical to get the job done. I would have my bud all natural but I am growing in a unnatural environment and making the plant do what I want.
I pass my buds out and I have no problem telling my customers that I use some chemical products and how much I use. I did this yesterday and the lady had no problem with it at all. That said I had another last week who won't buy from me because I do use some chemicals. To each his own I have more buyers then not after letting them make their own decision.
I think it is unethical to pass along a product with out full disclosure.
S
SeaMaiden
My own jury is still out on that. I still believe that it's probably better to use the tobacco corollary here, since we're still talking not about a berry that's going to be going through an entire fermentation process, along with filtration, etcetera, instead of something that's simply going to be dried and smoked.thanks!
eitherway sea maden, you hate eagle 20 and ive noticed one of your reasons is that the pm will build up a resistance if not used correctly. will you not be in favour of it if it was used to the point of eradicating pm in a given grow room?
I do grow my own, and I try to help others who are so inclined do the same. That is, in fact, the entire goal of the patient advocacy group I work with.
And yes, of course there are many, many things in this world that hold dangers. But we each get some small choice in what dangers we will embrace and those we will eschew, yes? If I have no other choice about anything, I can choose *not* to use something. What you're talking about is what I call risk assessment and mitigation, and I believe some thought must go into it.
I personally utilize the methods taught to me at a large public aquarium. One direction in handling (quarantined organisms are handled LAST. Why? They're still in QT!), quarantine, QT for a minimum of 30 days so as to observe that minimum period as disease-free. Vectors and vectoring are another issue that requires attention, and you're right, we humans make fantastic vectors.if you are willing to take the risk, dont worry about it. tbh ive never had pm. but id quarantine any new cuts. if i seem pm they go in the bin. if you go in your garden or others, change your clothes etc when you go in yours. keep conditions clean, and optimum, have good airflow and move things around now and again so you dont have stagnant unaired corners etc.thats what i do. i wont even cut veg up for dinne and touch my plants, im that cautious about it.
peace folks
I advise for cannabis cultivation much the same as I do for aquatic cultivation--get and keep parameters optimal for the organism in question (excellent water quality, high O2 saturation levels, proper specific gravity, water flow, lighting and photoperiod, FEED)--so that disease is instead more simply prevented than treated.
What's that saying...? A penny of prevention is worth a pound of cure? That doesn't sound right, and I can't remember how it goes. Sheesh.
I do much the same. I have recently broke my grow down to six plant rooms in order to minimize cross contamination. If I notice some thing wrong with some plants I tend to those plants last so I do not contaminate the other plants. It is a small step but a big preventive measure that takes no additional measures to protect the rest of the grow. Thus it limits the amount of Chemicals both organic or man made that I have to use.
While I find your "answers" below interesting and something we can chat about later, I just did not walk away feeling like my question was answered. But I want to ensure to keep the conversation on point, factual and friendly!
yeah it did!
serious quite an interesting read. so because neem affects pm with more than one action, it is harder to build a resistance to.
so how about a multi action chemical spray. or would that still be out of bounds for you?
i found the locust thing quite interesting but if it works so well, im suprised they dont use it for locust infestations in australia and what not. but i think its because neem takes up to 10 days to effect them which is not fast acting enough for a swarm of locust. they apparently use a biochemical now anyway which is non toxic and only infects the locust rather than a general insecticide.
eitherway that kinda brings me on to my next point, the money has not really been put into cannabis to cure some parasites or disease so many growers have a limited choice. especially if you have a large crop that your worried about losing and you want it cured asap. anyway interesting topic and cheers for the links. quite interesting.
Last edited:
I commend you on the containment program. Thats proper shit! But I do find PM is everywhere... (minus natural radical environments or sterilized rooms) I, myself am just coming into the realization it is better from the jump to raise a healthy ass plant. Period. You pretty much wonder why PM issues is becoming more resonant on ICMag and every other type of internet board out there. It damn sure is not because there more internet users being added. -
IMHO proper mineralization, proper utilization of micro and macro nutes, inducing SARS in early veg, foilars with silicon, aloe vera etc.., proper microbes (and much more) is one of the ways to stop all that mess. I know I am far from a perfect gardner but I am definitely taking steps toward trying to become that great gardner. And to each his own way in that travels. As long as your moving forward.
In the organic world its not about using the least of anything so that has no bearing.... Not a knock on salts at all but i want to make that differential known..
Your last statement surprises me. I also grow in unnatural environments and I make the plant do what I want too!! But I grow organic. What are your circumstances? Maybe someone here can provide some positive input for you to make that change?
BTW
According to your nutes you use in your pic gallery.... I dont see no organics....... (But I digress.....)
@Ichabod Crane
In what manner do you use this?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=38856&pictureid=918838
In what manner do you use this?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=38856&pictureid=918838
I don't use organics. A mineral is a mineral. The only difference is how it is acquired. Organics used incorrectly can kill just as can man made chemicals. Just look at the use of chicken crap on rice. I will not change my mind on this as I am sure that neither will you.
If you use to much nitrogen that is bad is it not. If you use to much chicken manure you can get that. So it is a matter of using what is needed and what is not.
I am currently trimming some bud that has bud rot now. I chose not to treat it as it was late in flower and I don't feel it is prudent to treat it. So I lose a few buds.
I simply wanted to reinforce sea maidens point that you can quarantine plants as a viable option if you use organics or man made chemicals.
If you use to much nitrogen that is bad is it not. If you use to much chicken manure you can get that. So it is a matter of using what is needed and what is not.
I am currently trimming some bud that has bud rot now. I chose not to treat it as it was late in flower and I don't feel it is prudent to treat it. So I lose a few buds.
I simply wanted to reinforce sea maidens point that you can quarantine plants as a viable option if you use organics or man made chemicals.
Understood and agreed...
I do not use manures personally but some well aged (chicken, horse, cow and depends on animal feed ), composted manure works but like everything else on earth, too much of a good thing blah blah... (u get my drift..) Soo..I agree... sort of..
I apologize... I had misinterpreted your post... Well.... I agree also!!
Last edited:
It is ok if you misinterpreted me, it does not bother me. To many people get upset here and miss the point that these threads are here to learn and post what you have learned.
A couple pages back I took Wierd way out of context as a joke to liven things up as people were insulting each other and not getting there points out. That was taken poorly even though it was a joke.
Point is both sides need to get their points out and agree on some thing that work. Sea Maiden had a good point that I agree with completely. So I had to back it up. I may not grow organically but I still can accept good info no matter where it comes from.
Can anyone tell me how horribly this stuff effects the soil food web? I'm curious. I'd bet it's not good though.
Eagle 20 and the System of Systemics
Eagle 20 and the System of Systemics
I was at my local Hydro shop today and was more less shocked at all the support there was for the use of Eagle 20. Considering the fact that this product was created by Dow Chemical should be enough for all of us who choose to make Cannabis an alternative to not only medicine, but also the development of the products associated with Industrial Cannabis.
I asked these MMJ growers to do some research on not only the product, but also the company who's coffers they were enriching with their purchase of Eagle 20.
Being that Cannabis is at the forefront of 'change' in the USA as well as the world, should be enough for us to focus on the direction we choose to follow in our quest for a better alternative to the Toxic Chemical Environment created over the last 65 years.
With the resurgence of Organic Farming across the globe, and the resistance to Roundup ready crops as one example, I feel the need to pose this question to all past, present and future Cannabis Growers.
Is the use of Eagle 20 on ANY Cannabis crop ethical?
I feel this new generation of Pot Farmers have know idea of the Legacy of Dow, DuPont and Monsanto. Do you know Eagle 20's cousin Agent Orange?
Eagle 20 and the System of Systemics
I was at my local Hydro shop today and was more less shocked at all the support there was for the use of Eagle 20. Considering the fact that this product was created by Dow Chemical should be enough for all of us who choose to make Cannabis an alternative to not only medicine, but also the development of the products associated with Industrial Cannabis.
I asked these MMJ growers to do some research on not only the product, but also the company who's coffers they were enriching with their purchase of Eagle 20.
Being that Cannabis is at the forefront of 'change' in the USA as well as the world, should be enough for us to focus on the direction we choose to follow in our quest for a better alternative to the Toxic Chemical Environment created over the last 65 years.
With the resurgence of Organic Farming across the globe, and the resistance to Roundup ready crops as one example, I feel the need to pose this question to all past, present and future Cannabis Growers.
Is the use of Eagle 20 on ANY Cannabis crop ethical?
I feel this new generation of Pot Farmers have know idea of the Legacy of Dow, DuPont and Monsanto. Do you know Eagle 20's cousin Agent Orange?
- Status
