Calling All Pot Sommeliers

[Silver Bullet]

sliver bullet- I asume there will be mass ammounts of crap produced because that is the way of big alcohol, tobacco and pharmacutics. Also big tobacco has already copy writ, and pattented cirtain names in preperation for legalization. Like pananma red and white widow. they are ready, so we must be ready for the change. we must get ahead of them. This is a problem that does exist in seed form, but it will growm and ruin pot for everyone.

Okay, again I have no idea where you are drawing up any of this stuff. You can't patent a name. You mean they are trying to trademark a name?

So what? It's unlikely they can pull it off, given what the requirements are to obtain a trademark. They have to prove that the term "white widow" is not already in use in the same industry. More so evidence is required if they wanted to patent certain genetics.

You see, not only do I not see a problem. I see you just confusing this whole mess.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

Okay, again I have no idea where you are drawing up any of this stuff. You can't patent a name. You mean they are trying to trademark a name?

true, they can only trademark a name, but can't copyright it nor patent it as if it came from their creativeness.

not sure how much hold a trademark gives you over a name anyway...

 

[Silver Bullet]

true, they can only trademark a name, but can't copyright it nor patent it as if it came from their creativeness.

not sure how much hold a trademark gives you over a name anyway...

Name is treated as a trademark and enforced as such. Unless it's a common generic name....(ie: if you named the grocery store that you owned "The Grocery Store")

sliver bullet- I asume there will be mass ammounts of crap produced because that is the way of big alcohol, tobacco and pharmacutics.

What type of alcohol do you drink? What type of beer do you want that you don't already have access to? Do you not think it might have something to do with lack of demand for your particular european flavor?

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^thats good to know about the trademark thing, I am glad they will have to fight for it. Like you said though they have a lot of money and a lot of sway. BTW I didnt mean patent though, I just used the wrong word on accident. oh ya my source for that particular info is time magazine. A 2002 issue I believe. Called "Is America Going Pot?" It was the first of the pro pot articles that Time put out that I read a few years ago.

There is no lack of demand for my particular flavor. Infact, some of the producers cant even keep up. Ever try getting a case of Scarecrow Cab out of nappa, or quinterelle out of italy? It's tough, you have to search a while if you really want it, or just get it from the producer, if you happen to have the connection.

It is about quality, and morals. Right now you have mass ammounts of people drinking bud light and smoking camels, and eating Burger King. All of these things are shit product contributing to the over all negative health effect on society. I simply do not want pot to become like this, once legalized. It has a bad enough rep already with half of the counrty still. I dont want big tobacco putting all kinds of addictive and harmful additives in my pot and not telling me about it. Many people that dont smoke now, or only smoke ciggaretts will become curious about pot, and want to try it. Most likely they will start will something that is prepackaged and pretty from a cigarette company. Also I dont want it to become another way for big tobacco to get kids hooked on a product.

There is no lack of demand for my particular flavor. Infact, some of the producers cant even keep up. Ever try getting a case of Scarecrow Cab out of nappa, or quinterelle out of italy? It's tough, you have to search a while and get lucky, or just get it from the producer, if you happen to have the connection.

I am totally against the malt liquer, cheap liquer, and cheap beer producers. They are all about pushing a product to take advantage of people, not about enjoyment of the product. They could easily make a better product and charge the same price. Their only agenda is to make alcoholics, for profit.

Fast food is the same way. The food is scientifically engineered to be addicting. I can go to a hole in the wall cafe by my house and spend the same 6 dollars and get quality made food for the same price as a value meal. Also the 6 bucks your paying for the fast food is a huge rip off. It cost them pennies on the dollar to produce that shit. They just have to pay for adds, and crazy overhead. Yet they still fuck their workers and customers.

The reason people go for these cheap harmful products is because the market is flooded with it, and it is right there in front of them all the time. Then at home it is being pounded into people's heads, that they need these shit products through advertising.I wish to keep pot away from these shameful practices, or at least make sure that the artisan grower outlet stay legit.

Even organic food is being threatened. Wall-Mart is lobbying in congress hard to lower the requirements for organic food to almost nothing, just so they can more easily go after the organic market, and put places like whole foods, and trader joes out of business.

 

[Silver Bullet]

There is no lack of demand for my particular flavor. Infact, some of the producers cant even keep up. Ever try getting a case of Scarecrow Cab out of nappa, or quinterelle out of italy? It's tough, you have to search a while if you really want it, or just get it from the producer, if you happen to have the connection.

It is about quality, and morals. Right now you have mass ammounts of people drinking bud light and smoking camels, and eating Burger King. All of these things are shit product contributing to the over all negative health effect on society. I simply do not want pot to become like this, once legalized. It has a bad enough rep already with half of the counrty still. I dont want big tobacco putting all kinds of addictive and harmful additives in my pot and not telling me about it. Many people that dont smoke now, or only smoke ciggaretts will become curious about pot, and want to try it. Most likely they will start will something that is prepackaged and pretty from a cigarette company. Also I dont want it to become another way for big tobacco to get kids hooked on a product.

There is no lack of demand for my particular flavor. Infact, some of the producers cant even keep up. Ever try getting a case of Scarecrow Cab out of nappa, or quinterelle out of italy? It's tough, you have to search a while and get lucky, or just get it from the producer, if you happen to have the connection.

I am totally against the malt liquer, cheap liquer, and cheap beer producers. They are all about pushing a product to take advantage of people, not about enjoyment of the product. They could easily make a better product and charge the same price. Their only agenda is to make alcoholics, for profit.

Fast food is the same way. The food is scientifically engineered to be addicting. I can go to a hole in the wall cafe by my house and spend the same 6 dollars and get quality made food for the same price as a value meal. Also the 6 bucks your paying for the fast food is a huge rip off. It cost them pennies on the dollar to produce that shit. They just have to pay for adds, and crazy overhead. Yet they still fuck their workers and customers.

The reason people go for these cheap harmful products is because the market is flooded with it, and it is right there in front of them all the time. Then at home it is being pounded into people's heads, that they need these shit products through advertising.I wish to keep pot away from these shameful practices, or at least make sure that the artisan grower outlet stay legit.

Even organic food is being threatened. Wall-Mart is lobbying in congress hard to lower the requirements for organic food to almost nothing, just so they can more easily go after the organic market, and put places like whole foods, and trader joes out of business.

No this isn't about morals. For you it is, sure. But for the people who are in it to win it, it's about money.

The problem of you not getting the beer you want. That italian stuff you mentioned. What needs to be done to make that beer more available to you?

Why do you think that the system needs to change and it's not simply the fault of the owner/manufacturer for not having the ability or desire to ramp up production?

Hash Zeppelin, you sound as if you were just introduced to the United States yesterday. I read what you write and say "duh, welcome to capitalist greed. Vote with your wallet. Stop complaining." Yes sometimes government intervention is necessary to protect the long term health of people. Regulate fast food, who cares. But how that relates exactly to what you're talking about with pot, again, I have no idea where that connection came from.

LAISSEZ FAIRE

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I am very aware of calaplist greed. It would be nice to limit it's influence on pot. It will always be only about money for some, you are right about that. It will also be impossible to stop big tobacco from getting involved, but we can regulate them. There is laws passed through congress that make the wine rules actual law, Thanks to Thomas Jefferson. He passed the first ones., setting president. When pot is legalized or decriminalized federally, if there is a system in place that works already, then it will probably be adopted and modified a little. Just a small bill that wont be argued agaisnt, because it logical to have one just as they do for everything. Fom wine to steak, to cars. Everything has official rating systems. Do you want us, meaning the pot community, to make it for pot; or do you want to leave it up to the overly greedy folk that dont care about it, and see it only as a comodity to buy and sell?

American consumers will buy shitty products if it sold right. Logical things like this do them a favor. most american families dont have time to shop around forever just to get the best. They depend on rating sytems fom everything, consumer reports hasnt been so succesful just do to luck.

I'm not complaining at all. I am just making you aware of what happens with capitalist greed, but you already know. The big difference between you and me is our outlooks. I enjoy this debate/ conversation a lot though.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

Why do you think that the system needs to change and it's not simply the fault of the owner/manufacturer for not having the ability or desire to ramp up production?

the problem with your statement above is that it disregards the fact that more often than not, mass-produced goods become of lower quality than those goods manufactured by the quality artisan.

we can compare the best mass-produced marinated rice vs. the marinated rice prepared by a mom who lives by the coast for example.

I don't think we can find examples of any mass-produced good that actually has a higher quality than a good not mass-produced, can we?

 

[Bobby Stainless]

I like a good Pinot or Cabernet with my Blue Sonja.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

First of all I do not drink, ever.
Second the ability to rate Cannabis and Hashish is beyond most mortals, they certainly can and do try, but they have no idea of what they speak of other then the simplest approach and terms.
I do have several good friends that are Sommeliers an one of my best friends is a Master Sommelie.
When it comes to taste and smells I see a lot of the same with alcohol and herb or resin, but when it comes to the highs from alcohol vs the highs possible from Cannabis or resin. This is the real difference, the alcohol high can almost be called 2 dimensional vs Cannabis 3 or more dimensional aspects. I think you know what I mean anyway.
Unlike wine and ethyl alcohol (even with the differences between white and red wines), the high in Cannabis is dependent on many many other things besides THC that most folks have zero knowledge about. That and the well known truth that what one person would rate as the very very best ever, would be rejected by another because it is to speedy or to couchlock, or the taste too whatever. The "best" Cannabis is so subjective it is hard to rate with out a multi-tiered rating system that breaks Cannabis and Hashish down into its basic arch-types. Maybe they could then be compared to the same arch-types or tastes or whatever.
Also I predict when Cannabis is legal big biz will take over, wise-up. They have the distribution networks for alcohol and tobacco. I don't care as long as people can grow for their own use and not be jailed. I don't care who controls the industry, but I do want it legal and taxed, just like alcohol or tobacco.
Where do you get your food? Where do you get your clothing, homes, automobiles, fuel, alcohol? Aren't they all from Big Biz?
I want Cannabis normalized, and taxed and regulated just like anything else.
And by the way if you think Humboldt is a great place to grow weed then maybe you need to consider why the growers went there in the first place, for privacy. People grow Cannabis far away from authorities not because it is better to grow this way but because then they can harvest their crop without police interference. When legal it will be grown where cheapest to grow.
Legal Cannabis will be grown outdoors in fields and in Greenhouses, not under lights.
Anyway I am not trying to throw cold water on your effort, but rather I am just saying it is a task that will take much more then you believe.
Good luck,
-SamS

 

[Possum]

everybody is a critic.

 

[OrganicMeds]

First of all I do not drink, ever.
Second the ability to rate Cannabis and Hashish is beyond most mortals, they certainly can and do try, but they have no idea of what they speak of other then the simplest approach and terms.
Unlike wine and ethyl alcohol, Cannabis is dependent on many many other things besides THC. That and the well known truth that what one person would rate as the very very best ever, would be rejected by another because it is to speedy or to couchlock, or the taste too whatever. The "best" is so subjective it is hard to rate with out a multi-tiered rating system that breaks Cannabis and Hashish down into its basic arch-types. Maybe they could then be compared to the same arch-types or tastes or whatever.
Also I predict when Cannabis is legal big biz will take over, wise-up. They have the distribution networks for alcohol and tobacco. I don't care as long as people can grow for their own use and not be jailed. I don't care who controls the industry, but I do want it legal and taxed, just like alcohol or tobacco.
Where do you get your food? Where do you get your clothing, homes, automobiles, fuel, alcohol? Aren't they all from Big Biz?
I want Cannabis normalized, and taxed and regulated just like anything else.
And by the way if you think Humboldt is a great place to grow weed then maybe you need to consider why the growers went there in the first place, for privacy. People grow Cannabis far away from authorities not because it is better to grow this way but because then they can harvest their crop without police interference. When legal it will be grown where cheapest to grow.
Legal Cannabis will be grown outdoors in fields and in Greenhouses, not under lights.
Anyway I am not trying to throw cold water on your effort, but rather I am just saying it is a task that will take much more then you believe.
Good luck,
-SamS

Finally some sense

 

[mean mr.mustard]

First of all I do not drink, ever.

Unlike wine and ethyl alcohol, Cannabis is dependent on many many other things besides THC.

I am glad you prefaced that second statement with the first... it's obvious that you don't know or understand the nuances in wine or beer that set the different types apart.

I respect your knowledge of cannabis, but you could use some education on alcoholic beverages. You may as well just stated that there isn't a difference between indica and sativa...

 

[bbing]

Look at me Ma! Im in the front row!

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

First of all I do not drink, ever.
Second the ability to rate Cannabis and Hashish is beyond most mortals, they certainly can and do try, but they have no idea of what they speak of other then the simplest approach and terms.
Unlike wine and ethyl alcohol, Cannabis is dependent on many many other things besides THC. That and the well known truth that what one person would rate as the very very best ever, would be rejected by another because it is to speedy or to couchlock, or the taste too whatever. The "best" is so subjective it is hard to rate with out a multi-tiered rating system that breaks Cannabis and Hashish down into its basic arch-types. Maybe they could then be compared to the same arch-types or tastes or whatever.
Also I predict when Cannabis is legal big biz will take over, wise-up. They have the distribution networks for alcohol and tobacco. I don't care as long as people can grow for their own use and not be jailed. I don't care who controls the industry, but I do want it legal and taxed, just like alcohol or tobacco.
Where do you get your food? Where do you get your clothing, homes, automobiles, fuel, alcohol? Aren't they all from Big Biz?
I want Cannabis normalized, and taxed and regulated just like anything else.
And by the way if you think Humboldt is a great place to grow weed then maybe you need to consider why the growers went there in the first place, for privacy. People grow Cannabis far away from authorities not because it is better to grow this way but because then they can harvest their crop without police interference. When legal it will be grown where cheapest to grow.
Legal Cannabis will be grown outdoors in fields and in Greenhouses, not under lights.
Anyway I am not trying to throw cold water on your effort, but rather I am just saying it is a task that will take much more then you believe.
Good luck,
-SamS

Thanks for stopping by man. I am fully aware this this is not a task that I will be able to get done. This is just a thread talking about the benifits a system like this would have. I would like to see something like this.

Wine is dependent on many other things than alcohol. the same is true about people trying to rate it. Most just cant, and dont know what they are talking about except in the simplest terms. The Wine system would translate almost directly to weed and hash. The out-line of this thing has already been done for us.

Wine is 100% subjective as well. I think there is some wine that smells like feet, and it cost a fortune because it is rated so high, and is very rare. I wouldnt buy it. It just isnt for me. Pot is the same way. All ratings are based on opinion. The reason your opinion would be more valued than mine is because of your experience. You have a much broader perspective than me on what is truely great, thus making it more reliable. Put a title behind your experience in a legal market then you have a well paying job that lets you protect the pot community. We know big business will break in, but with out a good artisan system they will crush small business. Just look at the way the overall craftsmanship and quality of all american products has gone down over the last 75 years. Now we just get everything from china.

I think it would be cool if you just talked about it will other people in The Netherlands for fun. Read up on the wine somm, region, and rating systems and see what it's about more, I think you will find it interesting even if you dont drink. Nothing serious, I just think that you, and your group are passionate, and knowledgable enough to do something like this. Even if just for fun on a small scale. It will bring a new perspective to your conversations.

 

[Silver Bullet]

the problem with your statement above is that it disregards the fact that more often than not, mass-produced goods become of lower quality than those goods manufactured by the quality artisan.

we can compare the best mass-produced marinated rice vs. the marinated rice prepared by a mom who lives by the coast for example.

I don't think we can find examples of any mass-produced good that actually has a higher quality than a good not mass-produced, can we?

There was nothing wrong with my comment. Supply and demand. If people demand it, there will be supply, because people like to make money and are always looking for a way to make a buck. I know I am (Hot white male, 175 lbs, 6'0", lean, just showered. pm for details).

But anyways. No offense, but this is just economics 101. And you asked for examples so.... KFC --->Boston Market--->Chicken Out

Dominos--->Papa Johns ---> Your neighborhoold mom and pop NY style pizza place.

McDonalds---->Burger King--->Five Guys or Fuddruckers

It's an endless list that spans every market. Gotta enroll in that economics 101 man. I've taken a total of like 2 semesters of economics in my life time (1 high school and 1 college), so I dont consider myself to know shit. But help me god, the backwards things that are dreamed up in this forum have me scratching my head.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^ you are missing the point there a little. We are saying the demand is high for shitty products because the public is uneducated. This system would be put there to protect them. We are not claiming that we can stop big tobacco from mass producing. We just want it to not be harmful. The mass produced product wont be high quality at least it wont be poison, like cigarettes.

I talked more to my wine somm buddies and they think the idea is great still after reading this thread.

 

[Silver Bullet]

^ you are missing the point there a little. We are saying the demand is high for shitty products because the public is uneducated. This system would be put there to protect them. We are not claiming that we can stop big tobacco from mass producing. We just want it to not be harmful. The mass produced product wont be high quality at least it wont be poison, like cigarettes.

I talked more to my wine somm buddies and they think the idea is great still after reading this thread.

I tried to get further understanding of a sommelier from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sommelier It sounds like they are only involved in how the wine tastes.

Can you please help clarify what it would mean to be a sommelier in marijuana? In what profession would it be beneficial? Like a coffee shop? Like you would suggest to customers what type of coffee tastes good with Northern Lights #5?

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

There was nothing wrong with my comment. Supply and demand. If people demand it, there will be supply, because people like to make money and are always looking for a way to make a buck. I know I am (Hot white male, 175 lbs, 6'0", lean, just showered. pm for details).

But anyways. No offense, but this is just economics 101. And you asked for examples so.... KFC --->Boston Market--->Chicken Out

Dominos--->Papa Johns ---> Your neighborhoold mom and pop NY style pizza place.

McDonalds---->Burger King--->Five Guys or Fuddruckers

It's an endless list that spans every market. Gotta enroll in that economics 101 man. I've taken a total of like 2 semesters of economics in my life time (1 high school and 1 college), so I dont consider myself to know shit. But help me god, the backwards things that are dreamed up in this forum have me scratching my head.

uh? I'm pretty sure your reply has no bearing to the point I was making.

my point is simply that mass-produced herb is simply no competition for the herb grown in smaller numbers with greater care for detail.

in colombia, we can see this very clearly in regards to our good herb...

in the lowlands, where big fields exist, very big crops get grown, they always get seeded, it is virtually impossible picking all the males/hermies out of so many plants.

then at higher elevations, you find smaller crops, with different genes too, but the treatment given to these smaller crops is much higher; sometimes the bud will even be dried under the shade (unlike big crops all dried under the sun).

etc...

 

[Silver Bullet]

uh? I'm pretty sure your reply has no bearing to the point I was making.

my point is simply that mass-produced herb is simply no competition for the herb grown in smaller numbers with greater care for detail.

in colombia, we can see this very clearly in regards to our good herb...

in the lowlands, where big fields exist, very big crops get grown, they always get seeded, it is virtually impossible picking all the males/hermies out of so many plants.

then at higher elevations, you find smaller crops, with different genes too, but the treatment given to these smaller crops is much higher; sometimes the bud will even be dried under the shade (unlike big crops all dried under the sun).

etc...

You asked for examples. I provided them. I would just like one real world example where what you're talking about takes place...and how marijuana could be done similarly.

The market will never really care how the product came about. As long as it smokes like quality. People can have their own health requirements in regards to how its grown organically. But as far as how long the bud was left in the shade... The market isn't going to care about unless they can taste the difference. Shit, just put "sun dried" on them like they do sesame seeds

You can't tell the consumers to like cherry pie, if they don't like cherry pie. The only thing you can do is make a case for it's nutrition because cherry's are high in antioxidants (or some shit like that).

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

You asked for examples. I provided them. I would just like one real world example where what you're talking about takes place...and how marijuana could be done similarly.

The market will never really care how the product came about. As long as it smokes like quality. People can have their own health requirements in regards to how its grown organically. But as far as how long the bud was left in the shade... The market isn't going to care about unless they can taste the difference. Shit, just put "sun dried" on them like they do sesame seeds

You can't tell the consumers to like cherry pie, if they don't like cherry pie. The only thing you can do is make a case for it's nutrition because cherry's are high in antioxidants (or some shit like that).

um... well, first you have to understand that drying our good herb under the sun does make a big impact on the final quality; what the colombians are doing is to basically destroy the crop that took so many months to grow right after harvest by lumping all buds together under the sun.

people buy this herb because it is the most widely available and because it is the one most people can afford... good herb from colombia is more expensive per gram than good cocaine from colombia, so here the demand has nothing to do at all with the taste of the people, but merely by what the suppliers are willing to produce.

it is the same with the examples you gave... sure, a lot of people eat at fast junk food spots, but a lot of the people would rather be eating at a restaurant with more wholesome foods, but these are usually a lot more expensive...

many times the people will buy mass-produced products not because it is what the consumer wants, but it is because what the consumer can only afford...