Bohemian Graftcity

[Boyd Crowder]

hey just thought id add more to the confusion

was researching something and came across pics of what looked like yours
so i thought id mention these



root aphids

gimage search root aphids
your symptons dont fully match up to broad or russet mites - the leaf cupping for one, are u seeing any of that?

 

[SuperBadGrower]

I would be dunking those with something more aggressive haha. Have you considered hypoaspis miles predators? I don't know if it's a hype but they are pretty cheap here and supposedly effective.

 

[ScrogMonster]

Rrrrrr I thought I was just dealing with russets and fungas gnats! I’ll have to read and buy something.

Any way updates on the grafted up plant.

Here she is over growing her current spot... I removed a lot of the growth above the grafts, lollipoping the tops of the host to try and balance out the strains on the plant a bit.

Hopefully the 5 gallon air layered root zone is strong enough to cut it off the MOMF, let’s take a peak at the top.

There’s a decent bit of roots at the top... hopefully it’s good to go... it’s time to cut off either way...

I put in the tent and watered it, I figured I’ll let it dry out after a good watering before I transplant it.

 

[ScrogMonster]

I figured I’d start a new air layering now on the MOMF. Around a Sugar Black Rose Branch. I decided to try a cup of soil mix this time instead a RW plug. Largely in part cause I couldn’t find my RW plugs... I
Secured the cup from falling with a bit of that thickish training wire and bent it around the branches next to it. I also started training the air layering by topping it. My plan is to top those two growths when they’re big enough, get 4 equal tops big enough to graft 3 of them with other strains and grow from there.

The grafted up 5 gallon air layering seems dried out a few days later... which was earlier today... so I decided to transplant

Half way through transplanting I remembered I needed/wanted to figure out a good new way to sub irrigate... something better then what I’d been doing with the last plant. I played around with different things for support and wicking columns and whether or not to go to Lowe’s for PVC and just make a DIY Earth Box.... I didn’t leave the house... not because of Corona Virus but because I had been smoking off a joint of Sugar Black Rose since I first woke up and I was feeling lazy like I really don’t wanna go anywhere... So I came up with this.

It’s a 5 gallon bucket cut to 5”, the same height as those solo cups which I’ll later realize I probably didn’t need for support heh... lined the inside with landscape fabric to keep the perlite in for a nice wicking column which also provides a lot of support in the middle of the tray to hold up the weight of the container. I mounded the top with perlite so it should make good contact with the medium in the container above it. I put a layer of landscape fabric over it hoping it will prevent the roots from growing down into the wicking column.

Here’s a pic from a different angle with the lid on the container. The container is one I’m repurposing from when it was supposed to be a bubble cloner... that’s why there’s all those holes in the middle of it, it made cutting out a rough shape for the wicking column a lot easier.

 

[ScrogMonster]

In the tent between two vert SIL
Fixtures.

Drilled some holes in the front to fill the res. It was while I was filling it I realized between the container and the lid and the wicking column, there’s probably enough support for the container of wet medium I didn’t even need those cups in there. I did put holes in the cups so water would easily get inside them so I wasn’t about to go pulling them out at this point.

Covered the top with plastic for mulch and bent a piece of foam insulation that I rested on some boards rested on the top row of SIL’s that are turned on to direct some stray lumens back onto the tops of the plant.

I was a bit cross faded and thought this was a cool looking photo.... shapes...

 

[catman]

Hope those are not aphids, but they look suspect to me. If they though, act fast. Come to think of it, your Lemon Meringue seemingly has symptoms of aphids too. Droopy with yellowing with eventual leaf dropping. I've never dealt with them strictly in the roots, but I've had them above ground on peppers many of times. Read up on imidacloprid if your conformable with that sort of thing. No issues here with it even in closed hydroponic systems.

 

[ScrogMonster]

Okay, I’ve finished modding my light fixtures to be air cooled by the exhaust fan. See pictures.

I’m super frustrated though because somehow this didn’t seem to change the temperature much. How?! How does not drastically lower the temp in the tent?! I’m perplexed. It may have even gotten worse...

The suction is good... look the air going through those little gaps around the bulbs hold up bits of paper.

Any body got any ideas? I’m still seeing like an 18 degree difference between the tent and the room it’s in... I’d think after air cooling I was hoping for only like a 5 degree difference but it’s still 15-20 degree difference. I haven’t finished the other tent next to it and I’m questioning if I even should try because the temps are better there then in this one at the moment..

 

[starke]

Slightly off topic but maybe not. Check out this thread, especially the part where he builds the light box. I built this setup and ran it for two years. In spite of all the CFLs the grow area stayed within 3-5 degrees of ambient room temp. The hood exhaust was separate from the grow area exhaust. The piece of clear lexan prevents hot air from entering the grow area. Bet you could adapt a similar concept to your setup.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=100698

I am not an expert on airflow but I'm betting the actual air gap around each light when added up for the total is nowhere near the opening size needed for proper airflow for the entire tent. It's not a question of enough suction around each light but how much volume is able to move around each light. Check out the vent thread here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112862

 

[ScrogMonster]

Thanks Stark! I appreciate you’re input and taking the time to post those links. I will definitely be digging through those.

Much love.

 

[Boyd Crowder]

graft master!

 

[SuperBadGrower]

A 20 degree difference? Inside 80 outside 60 or 75? I also don't get that. With proper setup a LED tent's parameters should be p much equal to the room it's in. No tips here unfortunately, hope you find the solution.

 

[Zomboy]

Interesting stuff. Grafting is something I’d like to try at some point. Nice work

 

[Terpene]

Whoa, those are all quite flush with the box - so you're effectively blocking the holes. Think of an engine, the valves stick way down into the chamber and the air flows around and past them when they're open. You'll want them all to stick into the area about an inch or two so the narrowest point of the bulb is in the hole.

This way you're not sealing off the openings and you're allowing the air to follow the curvature of the bulb (which also aids in cooling the surface of the bulb as well as exhausting heat). The more they block the openings, the less your fan is moving cause you're effectively making it suck air through a straw.

 

[catman]

Maybe I'm not seeing how you've got that put together, but you've got your fan, the output, and what's the input? Just the tiny gap surrounding each bulb? You could do the math, but the exposed surface area isn't going to be much and there's lot's of "turbulence" involved with getting air through them gaps. Imagine the air as water.



If there really isn't any other inputs, I'd cut a big hole, a square, at the bottom of your airflow box so you can feed your fans some easy-to-get air rather than making them work so hard to suck around those small gaps.

 

[Boyd Crowder]

bro, smokin joe just literally cooked the aphids out of his rooms/rootzones recently

maybe u should ask him how he got up to 120F in veg to eradicate them and no damage to his moms - hes also a led guy - a rep for hlg to boot

maybe while u are tuning yourairflow , u could maybe influence those out of ur soil for good

 

[ScrogMonster]

Thanks for dropping by everyone!

Terpene - thank you for re affirming what Stark and my friend that comes over to my house has suggested, that the bulbs are too flush/holes are too small. I’m thinking maybe the the easiest and quickest solution here will be for me to drill small holes in the ply wood next to the bulbs to increase the air flow. I’ll try it out here and post the results.

 

[starke]

Good Luck!

 

[ScrogMonster]

A little update on that fixture cooling situation... I drilled small holes next to each circle to allow for more airflow... I started with two small 3/8” size holes next to each circle... 36 x 2 = 72 3/8” size holes added all together... it didn’t help anything... so I then added 3 more 3/8” size holes next to each circle... 5 x 36 = 180 3/8” size holes all together added...

I even did this too a few of the circles just for fun

It really just seemed to just make things worse(hotter). So I figure 6” around 400cfm fan with a carbon filter having to work through probably around 20ft of duct between the line aiming the heat out the door of the room and the lines pulling from each light fixture after the T in the box.... just isn’t enough fan for all of it... I ordered 4 - Vivosun 6” $20 240cfm duct booster type fans. I think maybe just one of these boosters between the T and the fixture box might add enough suction for this too actually work... but I ordered 4 just incase. Because if that doesn’t do the tricks I’ll get some damn plexi or Lexan or w/e and cut 4” sq peices of it and build out the face of those boxes enough to seal off the fixtures completely and give each one its own dedicated 240cfm of separate through and through air cooling. I might just go straight for that seeing how I ordered 4 fans any way. I’d expect the temp to be same as ambient at that point , maybe just 1-2 degrees difference.

 

[Terpene]

Its not just suction, its overall flow. Here's what my cabs work out to:

Small flowering cab:
size:
2'x3'x3.5' = 21 cubic feet
lighting:
twelve 15w SIL = 180w
ventilation:
two 120mm 74cfm pc fans / one 120mm 44cfm pc fan = 192cfm
intake opening surface area:
four 3.5" holes / five 2" holes = 54.2 square inches
vented hood panel opening total surface area:
twelve 2.5" holes = 58.9 square inches
bulb surface area blockage:
twelve 1.75" stems = 21.2 square inches
panel openings - blockage:
58.9 - 21.2 = 37.7 square inches
exhaust opening surface area:
three 4.5" holes = 47.7 square inches


Large flowering cab:
size:
2'x3.5'x4' = 28 cubic feet
lighting:
twelve 23w SIL = 276w
ventilation:
two 120mm 74cfm pc fans = 148cfm
intake opening surface area:
1.5"x42" slot = 63 square inches
vented hood panel opening total surface area:
twelve 2.5" holes = 58.9 square inches
bulb surface area blockage:
twelve 1.75" stems = 21.2 square inches
panel openings - blockage:
58.9 - 21.2 = 37.7 square inches
exhaust opening surface area:
two 4.5" holes = 31.8 square inches

Both cabs stay at room temps, though the smaller cab with the heavier ventilation draw does dry them out a bit faster. The smaller cab also will clear a lung's worth of cannabis smoke in about 10-15 seconds - which is super cool to watch, but completely overkill.

To get static pressure as close to zero as possible (maximum CFM from vent) you need 2x as much intake area as exhaust area - which the large cab has almost exactly. The small cabinet has more of a 1 to 1 relationship with intake area, but also draws more air to fight the higher amount of static pressure. The downside to just adding more fans is by increasing air velocity / creating a wind tunnel, you dry out the plants.

Panel surface area also plays a part in restricting how effectively things work. The big cab panel openings are not a restriction, flowing more air than the exhaust 37.7 / 31.8, where the small cabinet is pulling more air through the exhaust making the panel a restriction at 37.7 / 47.7.

Based on the pics, you're running a 6" fan on each panel, which means you've got 56.5 square inches of draw. There are thirty six 2.5" holes (176.6 square inches), which look to be mostly blocked by the bulbs - call it 2.25" stems (143.3 square inches) making the difference between the two almost half what it should be at 33.3 square inches. If you move the panel back, or the bulbs forward to where they stick out a bit, the stems will allow more air by.

The reason I point all this out is so you can measure the space and find a happy medium between the two. The bigger cab doesnt have to work as hard to move air, the smaller one is a bit of a wind tunnel (and I could probably turn the 44cfm fan off if I'm honest).

Another thing to consider other than surface area of openings, is that with your panels, you're sideways. Since heat rises inside the panel, meaning you should extract heat from the top, or as near the top as possible. The panel acts as a light trap, so you can pretty much run the exhaust straight out the tops of the tent.

Hope all this helps!

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

Very detailed journal. Learns some. Thanks for the share.