What's new
  • Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Bitcoin Talk

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Oh there's money to be made, but yes I do now see it for what it is. Its a popular gambling game. As long as new players are starting up, existing players make money. Being first in first out is the way to play, but you have to understand the game. Its not like you are buying anything real. There is no country's GDP to underpin any value to any of them. There are no assets held by any of them. At least in a casino, the value of your chips is certain and backed by currency. In the game of fictional money, you have nothing to back up future value beyond new players entering the game. All the talk of these things allowing trade is from people who don't understand the need for value stability to allow confident trade and contracts to exist for the future. PayPal allows transfer of one currency to another currency elsewhere. To say crypto is needed is nonsense. Little people use PayPal, big guys use bank transfers and the whales buy currency futures for stability in their contracts.
So who needs crypto currencies? No one. Its just a gambling game. If you accept that, good luck, but to claim anyone who looks into it and decides not to play, doesn't understand it, well keep deluding yourself. Don't forget to turn your profits back into real money though. No one wants to be holding crypto currency when the players move onto the next game.
 

Guy Brush

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
PayPal allows transfer of one currency to another currency elsewhere. To say crypto is needed is nonsense. Little people use PayPal, big guys use bank transfers and the whales buy currency futures for stability in their contracts.
So who needs crypto currencies? No one. Its just a gambling game. If you accept that, good luck, but to claim anyone who looks into it and decides not to play, doesn't understand it, well keep deluding yourself. Don't forget to turn your profits back into real money though. No one wants to be holding crypto currency when the players move onto the next game.

Sure it is a game with the fluctuations , but saying PayPal does the job is just not right.
I avoid them like the plague, they fucked with me as seller and there was nothing I could do. The buyer's always right, even if he's not!
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Oh there's money to be made, but yes I do now see it for what it is. Its a popular gambling game. As long as new players are starting up, existing players make money. Being first in first out is the way to play, but you have to understand the game. Its not like you are buying anything real. There is no country's GDP to underpin any value to any of them. There are no assets held by any of them. At least in a casino, the value of your chips is certain and backed by currency. In the game of fictional money, you have nothing to back up future value beyond new players entering the game. All the talk of these things allowing trade is from people who don't understand the need for value stability to allow confident trade and contracts to exist for the future. PayPal allows transfer of one currency to another currency elsewhere. To say crypto is needed is nonsense. Little people use PayPal, big guys use bank transfers and the whales buy currency futures for stability in their contracts.
So who needs crypto currencies? No one. Its just a gambling game. If you accept that, good luck, but to claim anyone who looks into it and decides not to play, doesn't understand it, well keep deluding yourself. Don't forget to turn your profits back into real money though. No one wants to be holding crypto currency when the players move onto the next game.

You say all this as if your fiat paper money has any real value.
BTC = 1's & 0's on a computer
Pay Pal = 1's & 0's on a computer
Your paper fiat currency is no more valuable than is BTC or your Pay Pal account.

If you’re truly interested in how money works, I suggest reading “THE CREATURE FROM JEKYL ISLAND”.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Mj, any currency is backed by a nation. The infrastructure of that nation, the population of its workforce, the education of the work force, the natural assets of the land and more importantly its annual GDP. To say it has no more value than Sheldon coopers battle giraffe, is nonsense.
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
BTW, you can also make money on the decline of Bitcoin.

In the "option" world, there are "calls" and "puts". Both are binding contracts. Calls allow you to buy at a certain price...Puts allow you to sell at a certain price.

Investigate "out of the money put" on the option exchanges (particularly those with a strike price under $14,000). As long as Bitcoin is trading above $14k, the put has no value ("out of the money"). But...if Bitcoin drops to say $10k, that put will be worth not less than $4000 (difference between current price and the "put strike price"...provided the contract did not expire). One should be able to buy "out of the money" put for pennies without great risks.

Call it insurance, call it legalized gambling, call it a ponzi scheme...but if it were me I would view Bitcoin investing as a variation of the game called "musical chairs"; last one standing loses. Ride the wave, but don't be the last guy walking to the beach.
 

Moppel

Grower for Life
Veteran
What if happens if 50% of people go to the bank and take all their money of their account? Exactly.....
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
Anyone in to trading? The volatility of these coins has been great. :)

Once in a while, I'll find a coin I can make a few trades a week with. Set a low order and wait for it to get picked up. Set a high sell order and wait for it to go. Lather, rinse, repeat. It can be difficult to find a coin with regular swings, and sometimes those swings change and you get stuck with expensive coins you can't sell. lol Just like the stock market, in that respect. Patience works for me, others like faster trading. To each their own.

@GMT, Bitcoin has an extremely high intrinsic value, btw. It's value is in NOT being a fiat coin from another realm, it's a fiat coin from a decentralized community. A community which has it's own faults, and is also missing a great many of the faults of a standard country.

Huge Advantage: You can carry billions through an airport or country, without fear of seizure. Try that with any other fiat currency today. :tiphat:
 

mushroombrew

Active member
Veteran
You say all this as if your fiat paper money has any real value.
BTC = 1's & 0's on a computer
Pay Pal = 1's & 0's on a computer
Your paper fiat currency is no more valuable than is BTC or your Pay Pal account.

If you’re truly interested in how money works, I suggest reading “THE CREATURE FROM JEKYL ISLAND”.

I love the way it is written! Hilarious. Thanks for that link.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
What if happens if 50% of people go to the bank and take all their money of their account? Exactly.....

The bank goes under and the govt pays the account holders out. Look up northern rock UK.

Bitcoin has no intrinsic value at all. Just because it costs money to do something, didn't give that thing intrinsic value

Why would you carry billions through an airport? You don't even hold billions in cash. You hold it in a secure account that can be accessed from anywhere.
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
Why would you carry billions through an airport? You don't even hold billions in cash. You hold it in a secure account that can be accessed from anywhere.
Funny. :) Up until bitcoin, your comment was the only viable option.

Yes, the word intrinsic is wrong for BTC value. I'm afraid my memory retrieval is down and I'm unable to find the correct word. lol I appreciate the chuckle. :tiphat:
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
What if happens if 50% of people go to the bank and take all their money of their account? Exactly.....

The bank goes under and the govt pays the account holders out. Look up northern rock UK.

Bitcoin has no intrinsic value at all. Just because it costs money to do something, didn't give that thing intrinsic value

Why would you carry billions through an airport? You don't even hold billions in cash. You hold it in a secure account that can be accessed from anywhere.

I reiterate,...
Read “THE CREATURE FROM JEKYL ISLAND” & you will KNOW how banking works.
Every bit of it is, & always has been, a ponzi scheme for the removal of wealth from the poor & middle class to the banking elite.

IF... citizens started a bank run only about 10% could draw the cash that they have in the entirety of the banking ledgers, world wide! Possibly even less since most of the printed cash is in circulation.

ALL banks, the world over, practice “fractional reserve banking”!!!
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Each country has its own banking rules. I can only talk about the UK.

Nearly every bank on earth is run by one family... the Rothschilds!

Last I looked there were exactly 3 banks that weren’t Rothschild ran.
Iran
N Korea &
Either Chili or Peru (it’s been a while since I looked).
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Please conspiracy theories are meant to be for mental gymnastics and entertainment. When you start to believe in them, you sound a little crazy. People write books on everything from magic kids like Jesus and harry potter to ancient aliens collinating the earth. It doesn't make it true just because there's a book about it. I understand how banking works, I understand the adjustments to the rules that was negotiated during the crisis. The UK govt owns 2 banks at the moment. I understand the recapitalisation of the banks going on at the moment. Please don't start telling me that I don't understand things I learned 30 years ago and made a living working within the parameters ever since.
Most people get it, and most need the system to keep on going just to survive. If you want to farm your own food, make your own clothes and do without medical care, then the hills are there for you. Most of us want a better life than that though, and for that we need the banking system to keep functioning. Not to mention how much easier it is than trying to barter part of a pig for a loaf of bread.
 

geneva_sativa

Well-known member
Funny how the people pull the conspiracy, race, and/or pretty much any other kind of bullshit card you can think of, when the status quo gets called out for their fraudulent practices.
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Hmmm, when the Feds measure USA's money supply there is "cash" and, then there is "cash".

If you want to count JUST greenbacks & coins then the "money supply data" called "M0" is what you want to investigate (rounded to the nearest Million).

If you want to count all greenbacks plus bank deposits (let's call these "digital dollars" since they are not in the form of "paper money"), then follow the data for M1 (rounded to the nearest Billion).

If you want to include individual's savings & money market balances (more "digital dollars") then follow M2.
If you want to include institutional money (more "digital dollars") then follow M3.

Issue...the cash reserve (amount of cash banks are required to have on hand) is different for each country. USA banks are required to have 3% (that is--3% of customer deposits must remain in cash and not be loaned/invested out) while Euro area banks have a 1% cash reserve ratio.

In the USA, the Federal Government is the biggest issuer of "digital dollars" (all those entitlement payments are direct bank deposits--no cash is ever directly given).

Moral of the story: There will never, never be enough "cash"--lots of "digital dollars", but not enuf dough (period).
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Funny how people without an understanding of something start to make up their own stories to explain it. The process is often a combination of cognitive dissonance and sophistry. Often blaming their situation on a group of people conspiring against them.
 

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top