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Bitcoin Talk
- Thread starter englishrick
- Start date
Is bitcoin flopping because of the season? Or has the bubble burst? I keep reading that its trending downwards now
The South Sea Company (officially The Governor and Company of the merchants of Great Britain, trading to the South Seas and other parts of America, and for the encouragement of fishing)[3] was a British joint-stock company founded in 1711, created as a public-private partnership to consolidate and reduce the cost of national debt. The company was also granted a monopoly to trade with South America, hence its name. At the time it was created, Britain was involved in the War of the Spanish Succession and Spain controlled South America. There was no realistic prospect that trade would take place and the company never realised any significant profit from its monopoly. Company stock rose greatly in value as it expanded its operations dealing in government debt, peaking in 1720 before collapsing to little above its original flotation price; the economic bubble became known as the South Sea Bubble.
Tulip mania (Dutch: tulpenmanie) was a period in the Dutch Golden Age during which contract prices for some bulbs of the recently introduced and fashionable tulip reached extraordinarily high levels and then dramatically collapsed in February 1637.[2] It is generally considered the first recorded speculative bubble;[3] although some researchers have noted that the Kipper und Wipper (literally Tipper and See-saw) episode in 1619–1622, a Europe-wide chain of debasement of the metal content of coins to fund warfare, featured mania-like similarities to a bubble.[4] In many ways, the tulip mania was more of a hitherto unknown socio-economic phenomenon than a significant economic crisis. And historically, it had no critical influence on the prosperity of the Dutch Republic, the world's leading economic and financial power in the 17th century. The term "tulip mania" is now often used metaphorically to refer to any large economic bubble when asset prices deviate from intrinsic values.[5]
In Europe, formal futures markets appeared in the Dutch Republic during the 17th century. Among the most notable centered on the tulip market, at the height of tulip mania.[6][7] At the peak of tulip mania, in February 1637, some single tulip bulbs sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsworker. Research is difficult because of the limited economic data from the 1630s — much of which come from biased and speculative sources.[8][9] Some modern economists have proposed rational explanations, rather than a speculative mania, for the rise and fall in prices. For example, other flowers, such as the hyacinth, also had high initial prices at the time of their introduction, which immediately fell. The high asset prices may also have been driven by expectations of a parliamentary decree that contracts could be voided for a small cost—thus lowering the risk to buyers.
In Europe, formal futures markets appeared in the Dutch Republic during the 17th century. Among the most notable centered on the tulip market, at the height of tulip mania.[6][7] At the peak of tulip mania, in February 1637, some single tulip bulbs sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsworker. Research is difficult because of the limited economic data from the 1630s — much of which come from biased and speculative sources.[8][9] Some modern economists have proposed rational explanations, rather than a speculative mania, for the rise and fall in prices. For example, other flowers, such as the hyacinth, also had high initial prices at the time of their introduction, which immediately fell. The high asset prices may also have been driven by expectations of a parliamentary decree that contracts could be voided for a small cost—thus lowering the risk to buyers.
The modern discussion of tulip mania began with the book Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, published in 1841 by the Scottish journalist Charles Mackay; he proposed that crowds of people often behave irrationally, and tulip mania was, along with the South Sea Bubble and the Mississippi Company scheme, one of his primary examples. His account was largely sourced from a 1797 work by Johann Beckmann titled A History of Inventions, Discoveries, and Origins.[11] In fact, Beckmann's account, and thus Mackay's by derivation, was primarily sourced to three anonymous pamphlets published in 1637 with an anti-speculative agenda.[36] Mackay's vivid book was popular among generations of economists and stock market participants. His popular but flawed description of tulip mania as a speculative bubble remains prominent, even though since the 1980s economists have debunked many aspects of his account.[36]
According to Mackay, the growing popularity of tulips in the early 17th century caught the attention of the entire nation; "the population, even to its lowest dregs, embarked in the tulip trade".[10] By 1635, a sale of 40 bulbs for 100,000 florins (also known as Dutch guilders) was recorded. By way of comparison, a ton of butter cost around 100 florins, a skilled laborer might earn 150-350 florins a year, and "eight fat swine" cost 240 florins.[10] According to the International Institute of Social History, one florin in 1637 had the purchasing power of €11.51 in 2016.
By 1636 tulips were traded on the exchanges of numerous Dutch towns and cities. This encouraged trading in tulips by all members of society; Mackay recounted people selling or trading their other possessions in order to speculate in the tulip market, such as an offer of 12 acres (49,000 m2) of land for one of two existing Semper Augustus bulbs, or a single bulb of the Viceroy that was purchased for a basket of goods (shown in table) worth 2,500 florins.[35]
Many individuals grew suddenly rich. A golden bait hung temptingly out before the people, and, one after the other, they rushed to the tulip marts, like flies around a honey-pot. Every one imagined that the passion for tulips would last for ever, and that the wealthy from every part of the world would send to Holland, and pay whatever prices were asked for them. The riches of Europe would be concentrated on the shores of the Zuyder Zee, and poverty banished from the favoured clime of Holland. Nobles, citizens, farmers, mechanics, seamen, footmen, maidservants, even chimney sweeps and old clotheswomen, dabbled in tulips
According to Mackay, the growing popularity of tulips in the early 17th century caught the attention of the entire nation; "the population, even to its lowest dregs, embarked in the tulip trade".[10] By 1635, a sale of 40 bulbs for 100,000 florins (also known as Dutch guilders) was recorded. By way of comparison, a ton of butter cost around 100 florins, a skilled laborer might earn 150-350 florins a year, and "eight fat swine" cost 240 florins.[10] According to the International Institute of Social History, one florin in 1637 had the purchasing power of €11.51 in 2016.
By 1636 tulips were traded on the exchanges of numerous Dutch towns and cities. This encouraged trading in tulips by all members of society; Mackay recounted people selling or trading their other possessions in order to speculate in the tulip market, such as an offer of 12 acres (49,000 m2) of land for one of two existing Semper Augustus bulbs, or a single bulb of the Viceroy that was purchased for a basket of goods (shown in table) worth 2,500 florins.[35]
Many individuals grew suddenly rich. A golden bait hung temptingly out before the people, and, one after the other, they rushed to the tulip marts, like flies around a honey-pot. Every one imagined that the passion for tulips would last for ever, and that the wealthy from every part of the world would send to Holland, and pay whatever prices were asked for them. The riches of Europe would be concentrated on the shores of the Zuyder Zee, and poverty banished from the favoured clime of Holland. Nobles, citizens, farmers, mechanics, seamen, footmen, maidservants, even chimney sweeps and old clotheswomen, dabbled in tulips
As a result of the rapidly-increasing usage of the Internet, many investors were eager to invest, at any valuation, in any company that had one of the Internet-related prefixes or a ".com" suffix in its name, leading to a stock market bubble.[5] During the bubble, the valuations of companies in the quaternary sector of the economy increased rapidly.[6] Venture capitalists, eager to profit on this investment demand, moved to raise and invest capital faster and with less caution than usual. A combination of rapidly increasing stock prices, market confidence that the companies would turn future profits, speculation in stocks by individuals, and widely available venture capital created an environment in which many investors were willing to overlook traditional metrics, such as the price–earnings ratio, in favor of basing confidence on technological advancements. The low interest rates of 1998–99 helped increase the availability of funding.[7] The Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997, which lowered the top marginal capital gains tax in the United States, is also cited as a reason that people were willing to make more speculative investments.[8]
An unprecedented amount of personal investing occurred during the boom, and the press reported the phenomenon of people quitting their jobs to engage in full-time day trading.[9] The value of the Nasdaq Composite stock market index, which includes many technology companies, rose from 1,000 in 1995 to 5,000 in the year 2000.[5] By the end of the 1990s, the NASDAQ Composite reached a price–earnings ratio of 200, dwarfing the peak price–earnings ratio of 80 for the Japanese Nikkei 225 during the Japanese asset price bubble of 1991.[6] In 1999, shares of Qualcomm rose in value by 2,619% and 12 other large-cap stocks each rose over 1,000%.[10] Even though the Nasdaq stock market index rose 85.6% and the S&P 500 stock market index rose 19.5% in 1999, more stocks fell in value than rose in value, as investors sold stocks in slower growing companies to invest in Internet stocks.[10]
At the height of the boom, it was possible for a promising dot-com company to become a public company via an initial public offering and raise a substantial amount of money even though it had never made a profit—or, in some cases, realized any material revenue whatsoever.
An unprecedented amount of personal investing occurred during the boom, and the press reported the phenomenon of people quitting their jobs to engage in full-time day trading.[9] The value of the Nasdaq Composite stock market index, which includes many technology companies, rose from 1,000 in 1995 to 5,000 in the year 2000.[5] By the end of the 1990s, the NASDAQ Composite reached a price–earnings ratio of 200, dwarfing the peak price–earnings ratio of 80 for the Japanese Nikkei 225 during the Japanese asset price bubble of 1991.[6] In 1999, shares of Qualcomm rose in value by 2,619% and 12 other large-cap stocks each rose over 1,000%.[10] Even though the Nasdaq stock market index rose 85.6% and the S&P 500 stock market index rose 19.5% in 1999, more stocks fell in value than rose in value, as investors sold stocks in slower growing companies to invest in Internet stocks.[10]
At the height of the boom, it was possible for a promising dot-com company to become a public company via an initial public offering and raise a substantial amount of money even though it had never made a profit—or, in some cases, realized any material revenue whatsoever.
Y
Yard dog
there's only something like 20% left to go or 4.2mil coins, so the higher the btc price the cheaper to mine... I get it in $ to cost $5880 about to mine 1 btc in US taking the cost at about $112 per month to mine for 0.01905 btc so for 1 btc you'd get $6334 profit or abouts... guess it pays to mine where elecy is cheap for the big players
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Too much!
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/bitcoins-insane-energy-consumption-explained/
One good reason why, in the long run (think when fiat currencies start falling), another system is likely to win out.
Y
Yard dog
Thanks for that, I started looking at it myself hence the edited post above, mind boggling that the network is consuming the same as Denmark per year!! It seems when the price of btc is too low ie like it was below $1000 the small miners aint making unless they keep/kept the coins... bit yeah as it rises so does that power consumption!!!
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
It seems the development teams of other coins have been more active than the bitcoin team. Instead of implementing code changes, which would have increased the abysmal transactions per minute rate, bitcoin is still one of the slowest blockchains. Since the demand on the network is massive (all of a sudden), it's costing $50'ish USD in fees so your transaction goes through in 15 minutes (the very next block).
There ARE other coins, though it's tough to buy in at 10,000 to the dollar like bitcoin started. I see room for a few coins at the top, like Visa/mc/ex, and then various other decent options. SOME of them are even able to handle 2-3k transactions per second, on par and better than the Visa/MC/Ex networks.
Bitcoin is rather limited to asset transfer services, with fees. However, the landscape of services which can be created/supported through blockchain IP is just beginning to be drawn. I'm looking forward to the "advanced" coins coming. The ones which will make Bitcoin look as useful as a hungry infant.
Look around and start reading white papers. Look into the background of the teams and see who actually has the skills and who's making progress daily/weekly. You may pay a nickel or a penny each, for the biggest hit of 2020, the real question is who is it going to be?
For how long...anyone's guess, eh?Bitcoin plunged as low as $10,400 in volatile trading on Coinbase; now down 27 percent from record.
Bubble up,then a pin prick or tear in that balloon losing value. Rough when it loses 27% within 2 days. Yikes!
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Imagine if the USD had "competitive dollars" in circulation, each with their own distribution and redemption abilities. How long do you think the USD would last, if people could make a new one themselves?
You'd see commodity and precious metal backed currencies again, service backed currencies and more. In the crypto world, there are now digital alternatives to starting up a mint. Whether bitcoin lives or dies, crypto is here to stay.
I have some $ to invest. Still not sold on electronic currency. I may just buy bulk gold or silver.
to me it's not just speculation ...
decentralised banking is what the world demands. dlt is the future banks ...
bitcoin Solves something that economic scientists previously had issues with ... it's called the "double spending problem" blockchain solved it..
in parts of the world where being eligible for a bank account is very difficult..bitcoin or crypto asset exchange superseded this and gives tremendous utility to people in 3rd world economic states ...
function is needed to support groth and speculation..it has function ..just it needs an upgrade giving rise to new coins and New functions
I myself love smart contracts and the idea of making my own etherium token and distributing them as assets in my company at some point...
I'm currently trying to build an exchange built on a dapp idea I have..just looking for interested parties now..
decentralised banking is what the world demands. dlt is the future banks ...
bitcoin Solves something that economic scientists previously had issues with ... it's called the "double spending problem" blockchain solved it..
in parts of the world where being eligible for a bank account is very difficult..bitcoin or crypto asset exchange superseded this and gives tremendous utility to people in 3rd world economic states ...
function is needed to support groth and speculation..it has function ..just it needs an upgrade giving rise to new coins and New functions
I myself love smart contracts and the idea of making my own etherium token and distributing them as assets in my company at some point...
I'm currently trying to build an exchange built on a dapp idea I have..just looking for interested parties now..
I remember trying to buy seeds somewhere(think it was here) in 2010 ish. I couldn't get it back then or a few months ago. Imagine what my extra $5 would be worth now.
Has anyone gotten any money back? I'm ignorant to this stuff. Chimera has to be a billionaire
Bitcoin money from thin air...You can mine it....like with a pick...no like with nothing, it's fucking bitcoin lmao. How long til this turns the other way? For every action there is a opposite and equal reaction. Please ladies and gents have an exit strategy
Has anyone gotten any money back? I'm ignorant to this stuff. Chimera has to be a billionaire
Bitcoin money from thin air...You can mine it....like with a pick...no like with nothing, it's fucking bitcoin lmao. How long til this turns the other way? For every action there is a opposite and equal reaction. Please ladies and gents have an exit strategy
