The thing is nobody knows how bad it can get inside a person's head. By that i mean their sanity, their mind, their psyche, whatever you want to call it. For Bill Zeller, suicide was something he comtemplated for years, so who knows how bad it had gotten?
-
As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.
-
ICMag and The Vault are running a NEW contest in October! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Bill Zeller, Princeton Grad student who took his own life, powerful suicide letter
- Thread starter herewegoboys
- Start date
- Status
The thing is nobody knows how bad it can get inside a person's head. By that i mean their sanity, their mind, their psyche, whatever you want to call it. For Bill Zeller, suicide was something he comtemplated for years, so who knows how bad it had gotten?
it's no more & no less than what I called it to begin with,
UNTREATED DEPRESSION
now who left it untreated?
what genius did that?
in all of his studies how many times did he come across the fact that untreated depression is the number one cause for suicide?
at least I was gonna kill the fucker who abused me instead of leaving a mass of people behind grieving and wondering what more they could have done had I decided to kill myself.
as eloquent as he sounded he did exactly what he set out to do, make a bunch more people feel sorry for him for something he still didn't have the balls to be completely honest about even in the final moments knowing he wouldn't be around.
sorry but Bill doesn't rate my brave man salute.......
and as far as somebody insinuating that I brought up my own abuse so I could feel superior??????? fucking stroke!
UNTREATED DEPRESSION
now who left it untreated?
what genius did that?
in all of his studies how many times did he come across the fact that untreated depression is the number one cause for suicide?
at least I was gonna kill the fucker who abused me instead of leaving a mass of people behind grieving and wondering what more they could have done had I decided to kill myself.
as eloquent as he sounded he did exactly what he set out to do, make a bunch more people feel sorry for him for something he still didn't have the balls to be completely honest about even in the final moments knowing he wouldn't be around.
sorry but Bill doesn't rate my brave man salute.......
and as far as somebody insinuating that I brought up my own abuse so I could feel superior??????? fucking stroke!
lockehead - man I know how bad it can be, been there done that. Lost close family members and friends to suicide, been on death's doorstep myself a few times and have watched people I loved die against their will to disease and cancer. In my life I have concluded if you do not appreciate what you have already and make the best of it then it's not really possible for things to ever get better. Taking the most sacred thing that exists (life) and throwing it away because of what someone ELSE did is just senseless and tragic and I know myself and most others simply don't condone or support it. I support healing, life, love, & survival.
Stoner4Life, props and respect to you bro for taking the brave path and surviving that's what it's about man living, growing, making the best of any situation. Love your life, it's so very precious and I am very glad you are here to celebrate that life brother! I agree with you fully in your post above he was weak and took the pussy way out. You are superior and that's why you are still alive dude.
Stoner4Life, props and respect to you bro for taking the brave path and surviving that's what it's about man living, growing, making the best of any situation. Love your life, it's so very precious and I am very glad you are here to celebrate that life brother! I agree with you fully in your post above he was weak and took the pussy way out. You are superior and that's why you are still alive dude.
I gotta agree with SOT. I've thought to take my own life before due to the "darkness" I felt, but along with the realization that the world never stops spinning and time CAN heal all wounds you soon begin to realize how much importance you've placed on the negative things in your own life. Ultimately, the choice to live and die is up to you, he felt that his choice was correct in selecting suicide but now he will never know for sure. Honestly, it is weak. He succumbed to his own perpetual beliefs of pain, loneliness and betrayal even though he realized and could distinguish between people such as his parents, his molester and other people. He admitted to having periods of his life where the pain wasn't so powerful. Really I don't want to write a long essay. Some people can see the light or hold onto hope long enough to see it. Some people can't. Then there are those that believe unequivocally that in a world like this it is impossible for light to exist for them. Those are the ones that choose to ignore all the positive people, ideas and things that are right here on Earth. Those are the ones that choose to spend their minds energy to dwell on the dark side of life, the evilness of people and the uncaring hurtful side of the world. I've suffered through severe depression ever since I was 8 (I think, kind of blurry) to the point of no peer human contact for weeks, didn't have enough energy to feel haflway decent about myself and even quit taking care of myself at one point in time. My brother suffers from it as well and takes medication (Paxil) for it. So reading this letter only tells me that he chose to spend his time and energy on the negative issues in his life and ignored the positive people and things around his like his school, girlfriend(S) (shit I couldn't even get a girl), the friends he chose to lie to and the blanket stereotype that he threw over every single human being untrustworthy only further pushed him into the corner with no way out. Part of getting over these things are realizing that you have a choice to live how you want to. There are people who have no legs that have chosen to run competitively with prostethics. There are people who are serving 25 yrs to life with no chance of parole who still can see the dim light at the end of the tunnel. There are people in third world countries who witness murder and rape frequently and at the same time don't know where or when their next meal is coming to feed them or their family. There is pain and hurt in every single crack, crevice, corner, country, and continent. But when you are done with living in that deep dark fog, wondering where the next disappointment will lead you or how long it will take to bounce back from the next round of hooks and jabs laced all of lifes ills and you are contemplating ending it, remember that there is always a rainbow that is beaming brightly and if you pay attention long enough, the dark cloud that followed you becomes more distant with each step.
Suicide IS a cowards way out. Choose to live in the positive, choose to overcome the negative instead of swimming in it. Its not water, its quicksand.
Suicide IS a cowards way out. Choose to live in the positive, choose to overcome the negative instead of swimming in it. Its not water, its quicksand.
Yeah seemed like he was trying to treat his depression on his own since he didnt feel comfortable letting others know about his past, and couldnt find a solution
Quoted for pure epic truth and respect! 
1001% agree with you on every single point in there brother, stay alive & always keep on keepin on!
herewegoboys
Member
I'm about to go to bed and will save a considered response till the morning. I'll just ask people to remember why it is that most humans will have an emotional inclination to vilify most suicides: because we're in a constant state of self-justification, so what the fuck else are we going to do? Say "I get it," then go to bed and wake up the next day? Ha. No. That takes serious self awareness on a level that doesn't lend itself well to a one-liner about manliness, or courage.
I'd rather condemn a senseless selfish self-imposed death rather than support it and encourage anyone else to even for a second think that path is a reasonable option. I'm going to fuck my girlfriend, smoke some good herb, sleep in a big nice cozy bed and think about happy thoughts despite all the imperfections and bad shit I have had happen in my life but now if I followed the cowards logic I would have ended it all a long time ago and never paddled my way out of the shitholes we sometimes find ourselves in at various stages in life. There is an important lesson here to be learned the positive message to be sent out is..(in terms everyone can understand) Don't kill yourself because it's just plain fucking stupid and it does far more harm and damage than you can imagine. If you think you are gonna do it, call the cops on yourself or a suicide hotline, anything you can do to get help and survive the urge. You are here to live as long as possible and make the best of your life which is the most precious gift God gave you (along with Cannabis) Things can always be worse but they can always get better NO MATTER WHAT.
Disclaimer - if you did ever have to call the cops on yourself please do hide your stash or your plants before they get there! Safety first, so make sure not to get ahead of yourself and be stupid! Also, who is going to take care of your plants if you are gone?
The lack of empathy and understanding I see in this thread is sad and pathetic.
It's pathetic because for all your pearls of wisdom about what this guy "should have done" and all that, you are doing nothing but displaying your own ignorance.
The fact is, everyone's life is different. You don't even know this guy. All you know is a few general facts from his suicide note, no details, and you think you know enough about his life to judge him and say he's stupid and wrong? You don't know what his experiences were. Obviously (to people with brain cells) they were profound and life shaping. You have no clue what he "knew" about the world around him, or how he viewed the world and the people in it. You obviously don't have the slightest clue how the human brain even works. You don't know a fucking thing. So fuck you and your loud mouths.
Everyone views the world through his own lens. It's shaped by our experiences, and we only have a certain small measure of control over this. When someone experiences something extremely traumatic, especially in early childhood, it can dramatically alter this viewpoint, for life. In many cases there is very little people can do about it, especially if it happens so early on in life that the person's entire world is built around these early experiences. Such as this guy for example, who for his entire life, could not undo his pants to go the bathroom without (completely unconsciously and outside of his control) feeling extremely uneasy and fearful. In many cases there ARE things that could be done about it, but the person's built-in thoughts and feelings are preventing him from seeing this. The person (this guy being a prime example) is not even aware that his viewpoint has been colored in such a way. He might know it to some extent consciously, but he doesn't realize the full extent of it, and how this greatly differs' from others perspectives. All he knows is how he feels, and nothing he does seems to change it.
Here's another example for you clueless morons: What about people, grown men who have had a chance to grow up and live a normal life, who are then involved in wars where all kinds of terrible things happen, and they develop post traumatic stress syndrome? They wake up screaming from nightmares every night, staring off into space, drifting off and out of reality "back into the war" and shit, unable to cope or function in life, and often end up committing suicide. You think these people can just DECIDE not to feel this way? You think telling them to "just suck it up and deal with it, bad shit happens, big deal" is helpful to anyone?
You think it's as simple as "well he should have just went and got counseling" when the person's entire fucking reality is built around the idea (not entirely false) that nobody can be trusted and that nobody cares or will understand? (Weird that someone would think nobody would understand, when this thread is full of asshats who obviously don't and won't make any effort to...) You just view things through your own particular subjective lens, and ignorantly pass judgment on anyone else who doesn't innately feel the same way, as if they could possibly see the same things you see, since their life was completely different than yours.
Get a fucking clue. In the mean time, shut the fuck up.
It's pathetic because for all your pearls of wisdom about what this guy "should have done" and all that, you are doing nothing but displaying your own ignorance.
The fact is, everyone's life is different. You don't even know this guy. All you know is a few general facts from his suicide note, no details, and you think you know enough about his life to judge him and say he's stupid and wrong? You don't know what his experiences were. Obviously (to people with brain cells) they were profound and life shaping. You have no clue what he "knew" about the world around him, or how he viewed the world and the people in it. You obviously don't have the slightest clue how the human brain even works. You don't know a fucking thing. So fuck you and your loud mouths.
Everyone views the world through his own lens. It's shaped by our experiences, and we only have a certain small measure of control over this. When someone experiences something extremely traumatic, especially in early childhood, it can dramatically alter this viewpoint, for life. In many cases there is very little people can do about it, especially if it happens so early on in life that the person's entire world is built around these early experiences. Such as this guy for example, who for his entire life, could not undo his pants to go the bathroom without (completely unconsciously and outside of his control) feeling extremely uneasy and fearful. In many cases there ARE things that could be done about it, but the person's built-in thoughts and feelings are preventing him from seeing this. The person (this guy being a prime example) is not even aware that his viewpoint has been colored in such a way. He might know it to some extent consciously, but he doesn't realize the full extent of it, and how this greatly differs' from others perspectives. All he knows is how he feels, and nothing he does seems to change it.
Here's another example for you clueless morons: What about people, grown men who have had a chance to grow up and live a normal life, who are then involved in wars where all kinds of terrible things happen, and they develop post traumatic stress syndrome? They wake up screaming from nightmares every night, staring off into space, drifting off and out of reality "back into the war" and shit, unable to cope or function in life, and often end up committing suicide. You think these people can just DECIDE not to feel this way? You think telling them to "just suck it up and deal with it, bad shit happens, big deal" is helpful to anyone?
You think it's as simple as "well he should have just went and got counseling" when the person's entire fucking reality is built around the idea (not entirely false) that nobody can be trusted and that nobody cares or will understand? (Weird that someone would think nobody would understand, when this thread is full of asshats who obviously don't and won't make any effort to...) You just view things through your own particular subjective lens, and ignorantly pass judgment on anyone else who doesn't innately feel the same way, as if they could possibly see the same things you see, since their life was completely different than yours.
Get a fucking clue. In the mean time, shut the fuck up.
vaped
Active member
shit sucks the world is fucked up. Im not gonna come on here and profess my life or make any bullshit claims. I look around this world and see way to many people surviving on feelings. Shit the hot thing is now awe youre not feeling well here is an efexir how do you feel now. FOR REAL !!!!!!!!!! I look back to one of the first things my drill Sgt. ever said to me tuffen up buttercup. I still hold the same attitude life is what you make it. It some times sucks bigtime and its not fun to be here. My problem is I love fucking with folks if me killing myself makes your life easier well maybe i should stay fuck with you and you will off yourself. Also this guy was a grown ass man if he was ok with killing himself why didnt he kill the perv that fucked him up before he killed himself so said perv couldnt hurt another.
@gingerale
Yeah that's rational bro, so very productive.
I think people (including myself) are saying suicide is not the answer and really everything else beyond that is static and bullshit filler. I have empathy beyond the meaning of the word bro, mostly for his family at this point because he has ceased to exist now. Should we all get depressed about it or use this as a lesson to maybe help others? Help people see this is what NOT to do and if you feel bad for him, like truly feel bad for him then go down to your corner store and get a box of fucking tampons because you are gonna need em!
No sympathy for killers of innocent and precious life and that's exactly what he did.
Not kill, at least beat him half to death or bring him to justice at bare minimum
Yeah that's rational bro, so very productive.
I think people (including myself) are saying suicide is not the answer and really everything else beyond that is static and bullshit filler. I have empathy beyond the meaning of the word bro, mostly for his family at this point because he has ceased to exist now. Should we all get depressed about it or use this as a lesson to maybe help others? Help people see this is what NOT to do and if you feel bad for him, like truly feel bad for him then go down to your corner store and get a box of fucking tampons because you are gonna need em!
No sympathy for killers of innocent and precious life and that's exactly what he did.
vaped said:
Not kill, at least beat him half to death or bring him to justice at bare minimum
herewegoboys
Member
Well, I see now that soft is coming from a religious point of view. Therefore his disposition is innately irrational by definition, rooted in "faith." I imagine he would admit as much. There is not much a secular person can say to someone like that. He believes life is a gift from God, and Bill is going to hell, and so on.
What can you say to a religious person about such difficult philosophical questions? Nothing.
What can you say to a religious person about such difficult philosophical questions? Nothing.
herewegoboys.......well then where did life come from expert?
Wait, let me guess. Some random explosion happened out of pure non-existence right? Then we somehow and someway just randomly evolved with all of our bodily functions and organs, senses, brains, seemingly impossible abilities? That my friend is a debate you simply cannot even hope to win if you have a lick of sense anywhere in that God made brain of yours.
You can attack me for my beliefs but you are correct you won't change them.
Not getting into that discussion here but yes I sincerely believe in God (whomever he or it is) and that God created life as we know it. You guys quote him and the bible versus from Genesis all the time about the Cannabis plant and all that so let us not turn a blind eye to something we already give credit to around here lest we be some blasphemers.
To support an action like suicide is really poor judgement and I think a sign of some inner demons you need to probably work out within yourself. Suicide is never the right answer, it wasn't here either.
There is such a thing as religious beliefs about suicide of course, and maybe some faith would have really done this kid some good. Might do alot of people some good who feel lost and alone.
If it saved his life and he had some hope or a LIGHT in that darkness then maybe he would still be alive and working to live a better happier life and make the best of his situation. He kept talking about darkness in his letter and I sincerely think that was evil and the influence of the devil haunting him. People who exist in love and light usually have faith and hope and when times get really tough you don't find yourself all alone and suicidal because you know there is more to life than your current problems, a bigger picture if you will. Faith is very important even just for basic quality of life.
Also it does not take a brain surgeon to figure out the kid really had it better than most of us likely ever will, despite his purported and alleged childhood trauma which I think he really fixated on entirely too much if it actually did even happen and he seriously needed to be more honest, open, and brave about the whole situation and it would have certainly turned out differently for him. If I knew him I would have done my best to help him but we must also remember that not everyone can be helped, saved, fixed whatever you want to call it. It is Survival Of The Fittest and the kid just did not make it, some sink some swim if we sit around and feel sorry for him we ourselves might end up in that negative state of depression and darkness and it's not a fun place to be trust me spent enough years there and survived it luckily! Let me repeat it for the short bus riding tards out there - Suicide sucks!
Wait, let me guess. Some random explosion happened out of pure non-existence right? Then we somehow and someway just randomly evolved with all of our bodily functions and organs, senses, brains, seemingly impossible abilities? That my friend is a debate you simply cannot even hope to win if you have a lick of sense anywhere in that God made brain of yours.
You can attack me for my beliefs but you are correct you won't change them.
Not getting into that discussion here but yes I sincerely believe in God (whomever he or it is) and that God created life as we know it. You guys quote him and the bible versus from Genesis all the time about the Cannabis plant and all that so let us not turn a blind eye to something we already give credit to around here lest we be some blasphemers.
To support an action like suicide is really poor judgement and I think a sign of some inner demons you need to probably work out within yourself. Suicide is never the right answer, it wasn't here either.
There is such a thing as religious beliefs about suicide of course, and maybe some faith would have really done this kid some good. Might do alot of people some good who feel lost and alone.
If it saved his life and he had some hope or a LIGHT in that darkness then maybe he would still be alive and working to live a better happier life and make the best of his situation. He kept talking about darkness in his letter and I sincerely think that was evil and the influence of the devil haunting him. People who exist in love and light usually have faith and hope and when times get really tough you don't find yourself all alone and suicidal because you know there is more to life than your current problems, a bigger picture if you will. Faith is very important even just for basic quality of life.
Also it does not take a brain surgeon to figure out the kid really had it better than most of us likely ever will, despite his purported and alleged childhood trauma which I think he really fixated on entirely too much if it actually did even happen and he seriously needed to be more honest, open, and brave about the whole situation and it would have certainly turned out differently for him. If I knew him I would have done my best to help him but we must also remember that not everyone can be helped, saved, fixed whatever you want to call it. It is Survival Of The Fittest and the kid just did not make it, some sink some swim if we sit around and feel sorry for him we ourselves might end up in that negative state of depression and darkness and it's not a fun place to be trust me spent enough years there and survived it luckily! Let me repeat it for the short bus riding tards out there - Suicide sucks!
Last edited:
dragongrower
Active member
maybe his life was just so much more worse than any of us can think..
It is easy for us to say that life is most precious, but nobody of us know how bad he felt inside...
It is easy for us to say that life is most precious, but nobody of us know how bad he felt inside...
Aksala
Active member
For you....
Life is not always as precious as us happy people assume.
IMO this guy was well on his way to becoming a murderer in order to "feel". Killing himself was almost heroic in my book.
Aksala
Active member
I am absolutely blown away man.
The fact that you say that if we sit around and feel sorry for him we may end up in that state of depression and darkness is so fucking ignorant.
People like you make me sick to my stomach.
And embarassed as well.
Do a little research on the human mind and what childhood trauma can do to it.
You act as if this guy had any control at all over the way he felt....
So sad
- Status
