Nice pots! I'm excited to see them with plants.
Big Soil Little Room, Recycled soil trial
- Thread starter FatherEarth
- Start date
Very nice! Can't wait. 
anonymousgrow
Active member
Wow, very very nice!
Pangea,
Soil monitoring will be going on indeed.
Im not sure how much the EC or ERGS will be of help though. . Here is why. ..
The soil Im using I mixed about a year ago, got it wet and inoculated with Tainio microbes and molasses. The mix was .7 -.8 on the ergs meter then..
A year later after sitting covered outdoors, the soil ranges from .2-.4
Where did the nutrients go?
I was told they are stored in the soil CEC until needed.
So its stored energy and until the CEC becomes over saturated you wont be able to tell whats available with a ergs/ms meter.
I sent in soil samples for analysis for each bed of soil, 12 all together. So we will be kicking the run off proper with the knowledge of whats in every bed prior to planting.
Also, I will be keeping regular Brix, Sap PH, and ERGS readings for the sake of logging all possible data.
To be honest, Im attempting to have a flawless run. Meaning everything dialed and on TIME.
Timing is HUGE when trying to max out everything.
Im not saying I will succeed in having a perfect run but all things are in place for it to happen. We shall see if I can maintain the pace of the plants and pull it off. Going for 3 units per bed.
Ill be using 3 cultivars I know well and are proven producers in both yield and quality. Mono cropping would be the easy route to hit the numbers but I simply cant do it. I have to have variety to keep it moving.
Ill be back with more talk of what I think it will take to amount to a "perfect" run. Please feel free to chime in with opinions and ideas of what that means to you. Thanks to all for the encouragement and well wishes! Your input and positive energy is most appreciated.
With Respect,
FE
Soil monitoring will be going on indeed.
Im not sure how much the EC or ERGS will be of help though. . Here is why. ..
The soil Im using I mixed about a year ago, got it wet and inoculated with Tainio microbes and molasses. The mix was .7 -.8 on the ergs meter then..
A year later after sitting covered outdoors, the soil ranges from .2-.4
Where did the nutrients go?
I was told they are stored in the soil CEC until needed.
So its stored energy and until the CEC becomes over saturated you wont be able to tell whats available with a ergs/ms meter.
I sent in soil samples for analysis for each bed of soil, 12 all together. So we will be kicking the run off proper with the knowledge of whats in every bed prior to planting.
Also, I will be keeping regular Brix, Sap PH, and ERGS readings for the sake of logging all possible data.
To be honest, Im attempting to have a flawless run. Meaning everything dialed and on TIME.
Timing is HUGE when trying to max out everything.
Im not saying I will succeed in having a perfect run but all things are in place for it to happen. We shall see if I can maintain the pace of the plants and pull it off. Going for 3 units per bed.
Ill be using 3 cultivars I know well and are proven producers in both yield and quality. Mono cropping would be the easy route to hit the numbers but I simply cant do it. I have to have variety to keep it moving.
Ill be back with more talk of what I think it will take to amount to a "perfect" run. Please feel free to chime in with opinions and ideas of what that means to you. Thanks to all for the encouragement and well wishes! Your input and positive energy is most appreciated.
With Respect,
FE
For the sake of logging all possible data!
I didnt see you mention measuring EC or ERGS before so I thought I'd ask, just another color in the larger picture of things, the more the merrier!
Each bed is from the same source of recycled soil? Did you or will you amend or top dress based on the soil analysis?
Im going to be doing very similar work right away, so Im quite excited to follow along and glean some tips and tricks!
I am very curious as to your thoughts on a perfect run and timing. It seems to me with big(huge) soil and no transplanting you mainly have to worry about when to flip! Do you have a complex foliar regimen to help your timing?
PS. Love the used plastic pallets as movable beds, Ive been kicking myself to come up with a cheap non-wood based solution, your innovation has made my day.
I didnt see you mention measuring EC or ERGS before so I thought I'd ask, just another color in the larger picture of things, the more the merrier!
Each bed is from the same source of recycled soil? Did you or will you amend or top dress based on the soil analysis?
Im going to be doing very similar work right away, so Im quite excited to follow along and glean some tips and tricks!
I am very curious as to your thoughts on a perfect run and timing. It seems to me with big(huge) soil and no transplanting you mainly have to worry about when to flip! Do you have a complex foliar regimen to help your timing?
PS. Love the used plastic pallets as movable beds, Ive been kicking myself to come up with a cheap non-wood based solution, your innovation has made my day.
KILLER! VERY NICE!
Just didnt take pics of the 14" holes...lol
still working on getting the pics up to show the light arrangement and other fine details ie Umol readings etc..
The soil is stuff I put together myself and mixed outdoors and loaded into smart pots. It shouldn't need amending but with the ERGS reading anomaly, I had to dbl check to be sure something wasn't off.
And Yes of course I will amend if there is something missing or low.
Aiming for Albrecht ratios as usual.. I listed the soil mix earlier in the thread, although this time I added additional crustacean meal , and Tainio products.
Spectrum Extra, Biogenesis I and Pepzyme clear was added after the mix was put into the beds on wheels. Currently waiting on the test results from Logan Labs before putting plants in. I may stick some testers in to see how they go while I wait...
So about the perfect run scenario. . . So the aim is to never have the plants waiting on me to make a move, and optimum health all around. Mother plants grown just for this run and pampered with trace minerals calcium foliars, aminos, and plenty of soil.
I Grew 3 moms for each cultivar I plan to run. This will ensure I have enough premium cuts to chose from when I pick my all star team of clones. I took 36 premium cuts of each cultivar, of those Ill pick possibly 16 of each to go to the races with.
Ill usually go after the ones with the largest, most healthy root system, I also favor clones with a large stalk girth. My clones will be rooted in 7 days if Im doing things right and the mothers were in good health. Heating the clone trays to a steady 78-80F is key as well as good lighting and proper humidity. 2 weeks to root is too long IMO. Healthy plants and a proper cloning environment are crucial. I suspect many clones that take such long periods to root run a much higher risk for fungal infections that remain undetectable until later in the grow and ultimately reduce yield.
Making your clones properly is of paramount importance .
Another issue that is to be avoided, is to never have a root bound plant in the garden.
Timing is essential and being prepared is the key to success.
I do not even think of taking cuts until Im all ready and waiting for the plants. The room has been dialed and ready for them and everyone has taken their seat for the show.. then I get the plant run started.
Young healthy, and vigorous!
I never bring a grandma or mother plant to the race.
I prefer to veg in the pot I flower in and minimize transplanting.
One transplant and thats it. I do much better veging in place than I do veging in another room and transplanting for flower.
If my soil is dialed it doesnt take long to get to size, even if going for large plants. Huge amounts of soil and a large nutrient battery x a heavy handed foliar game = turbo charged plant growth.
Im striving for nutrient density and full genetic expression in my gardens. I follow the works of Kempf, Kittredge, Lovel, and rely heavily on the guidelines laid out by Albrecht and Reams.
These are the first things that come to mind when I set out to do a run. I know some take pride in how little they do in their gardens. To each their own. Im trying to see what I can get out of these plants if everything is optimal.
I am trying to see how hard I can push this plant and just what we can really expect. Some think its too much work the way I run my setups with solid canopies and no isles.
I say that this space is for plants, and I do what is needed to get the best results out of them. This round I did include the ability to open a floating isle where ever is needed. That is what the castors are providing. I have 1.5’ on either side L or R to push the outer rows and create a 3’ isle as needed.
I also installed a drip system for a more regular and even watering of the soil. Hand watering is not nearly as effective or consistent. I am including a PDF on the subject for any who are interested as well as some foliar feeding PDF’s. Here are a few pics of the cloning I mentioned and some room pics. We are at the starting line
Respectfully,
FE
7days
Using only water at 7 days
And Yes of course I will amend if there is something missing or low.
Aiming for Albrecht ratios as usual.. I listed the soil mix earlier in the thread, although this time I added additional crustacean meal , and Tainio products.
Spectrum Extra, Biogenesis I and Pepzyme clear was added after the mix was put into the beds on wheels. Currently waiting on the test results from Logan Labs before putting plants in. I may stick some testers in to see how they go while I wait...
So about the perfect run scenario. . . So the aim is to never have the plants waiting on me to make a move, and optimum health all around. Mother plants grown just for this run and pampered with trace minerals calcium foliars, aminos, and plenty of soil.
I Grew 3 moms for each cultivar I plan to run. This will ensure I have enough premium cuts to chose from when I pick my all star team of clones. I took 36 premium cuts of each cultivar, of those Ill pick possibly 16 of each to go to the races with.
Ill usually go after the ones with the largest, most healthy root system, I also favor clones with a large stalk girth. My clones will be rooted in 7 days if Im doing things right and the mothers were in good health. Heating the clone trays to a steady 78-80F is key as well as good lighting and proper humidity. 2 weeks to root is too long IMO. Healthy plants and a proper cloning environment are crucial. I suspect many clones that take such long periods to root run a much higher risk for fungal infections that remain undetectable until later in the grow and ultimately reduce yield.
Making your clones properly is of paramount importance .
Another issue that is to be avoided, is to never have a root bound plant in the garden.
Timing is essential and being prepared is the key to success.
I do not even think of taking cuts until Im all ready and waiting for the plants. The room has been dialed and ready for them and everyone has taken their seat for the show.. then I get the plant run started.
Young healthy, and vigorous!
I never bring a grandma or mother plant to the race.
I prefer to veg in the pot I flower in and minimize transplanting.
One transplant and thats it. I do much better veging in place than I do veging in another room and transplanting for flower.
If my soil is dialed it doesnt take long to get to size, even if going for large plants. Huge amounts of soil and a large nutrient battery x a heavy handed foliar game = turbo charged plant growth.
Im striving for nutrient density and full genetic expression in my gardens. I follow the works of Kempf, Kittredge, Lovel, and rely heavily on the guidelines laid out by Albrecht and Reams.
These are the first things that come to mind when I set out to do a run. I know some take pride in how little they do in their gardens. To each their own. Im trying to see what I can get out of these plants if everything is optimal.
I am trying to see how hard I can push this plant and just what we can really expect. Some think its too much work the way I run my setups with solid canopies and no isles.
I say that this space is for plants, and I do what is needed to get the best results out of them. This round I did include the ability to open a floating isle where ever is needed. That is what the castors are providing. I have 1.5’ on either side L or R to push the outer rows and create a 3’ isle as needed.
I also installed a drip system for a more regular and even watering of the soil. Hand watering is not nearly as effective or consistent. I am including a PDF on the subject for any who are interested as well as some foliar feeding PDF’s. Here are a few pics of the cloning I mentioned and some room pics. We are at the starting line
Respectfully,
FE
7days
Using only water at 7 days
1st gavita layout looking through Method Seven glasses
Drip Irrigation for Every landscape and all climates PDF 210 pages
Good info and proves why drip irrigation is the best way to water..
http://www.mediafire.com/view/hz1k7qvb86swk60/Drip_NP.pdf
Foliar nutrition for various types of plants..
http://www.mediafire.com/view/ye2tmrpkskd9hkg/_mwlabsfoliarnutrition_copy.pdf
Good info and proves why drip irrigation is the best way to water..
http://www.mediafire.com/view/hz1k7qvb86swk60/Drip_NP.pdf
Foliar nutrition for various types of plants..
http://www.mediafire.com/view/ye2tmrpkskd9hkg/_mwlabsfoliarnutrition_copy.pdf
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words.
I must admit if it wasnt for this site and a handful of its members I wouldnt know half of what I know today.
Some I know in real life others are still just really smart people behind screen names.
Ive still got a lot to learn, thats why I share these runs, so others can chime in and help me refine my techniques, and maybe we can learn something new together. I dont think Ive ever done two grows the same. Im always trying something new and trying to push the envelope. If I just cash cropped run after run I would probably be bored with it by now.
Im having camera troubles so looks like Ill be grabbing a new camera to keep the show going. Hopefully have more stuff to show by tomorrow. Should have soil test results back on Tuesday so it should be a great week for progress.
With Respect,
FE
Last edited:
right on
Soil analysis
Soil analysis
So I got my soil analysis back today... and I must say its wildy inconsistent. I know a few reasons for this.. 1. allowing the help to work unsupervised 2.poor mixing, 3. Poor quality compost.
Perfect example of why soil testing is important..
So originally I added 6lbs of the amendment mix per yard and when I planted in it I wasnt impressed with the speed of growth as with the original recipe. So as I mixed each bed I added the remaining 3lbs per yard. Seems to be part of the folly on this one. Im not overly concerned, Im just going to add what is needed to fix the issue.
Some of the results I wonder wtf!? Like one bed has a base saturation of 45% exchangeable Hydrogen ? How does that happen? A good portion of values are consistent and others vary wildly. makes me wonder how? when all the amendments are added premixed.
How could some things be so far off?
I kinda feel as though some tests may be lab error. Out of 12 tests seems like a few are weird. Have a look. Comments and advice all welcome. Lets make it a learning experience for all. Ill detail what Im going to do to correct the issue, firstly correcting the low Ca values, which should address some of the low PH. . . seems some of the beds had compost added when it should of been the the previously mixed soil throwing the balance way off...
To test my theory Im going to mix 2 yards of soil separately using the original recipe. One with the same compost, the other with newly sourced compost. Ill also redo the soil amendment mix and add 9lbs per yard. Then have another test done on each yard. I may even send the same samples to a second local lab just to have a second opinion.
SB correlates to each Soil Bed 1 2 and so on..
Soil analysis
So I got my soil analysis back today... and I must say its wildy inconsistent. I know a few reasons for this.. 1. allowing the help to work unsupervised 2.poor mixing, 3. Poor quality compost.
Perfect example of why soil testing is important..
So originally I added 6lbs of the amendment mix per yard and when I planted in it I wasnt impressed with the speed of growth as with the original recipe. So as I mixed each bed I added the remaining 3lbs per yard. Seems to be part of the folly on this one. Im not overly concerned, Im just going to add what is needed to fix the issue.
Some of the results I wonder wtf!? Like one bed has a base saturation of 45% exchangeable Hydrogen ? How does that happen? A good portion of values are consistent and others vary wildly. makes me wonder how? when all the amendments are added premixed.
How could some things be so far off?
I kinda feel as though some tests may be lab error. Out of 12 tests seems like a few are weird. Have a look. Comments and advice all welcome. Lets make it a learning experience for all. Ill detail what Im going to do to correct the issue, firstly correcting the low Ca values, which should address some of the low PH. . . seems some of the beds had compost added when it should of been the the previously mixed soil throwing the balance way off...
To test my theory Im going to mix 2 yards of soil separately using the original recipe. One with the same compost, the other with newly sourced compost. Ill also redo the soil amendment mix and add 9lbs per yard. Then have another test done on each yard. I may even send the same samples to a second local lab just to have a second opinion.
SB correlates to each Soil Bed 1 2 and so on..
The low CEC stands out, is it not a peat moss / perlite mix?
Pro-Mix has tested at 195meq, and sphagnum peat ranges from 100 - 200meq.
I had this problem with my local lab recently and got a refund after they admitted they could not being able to process peat moss based soil properly. I was going to ship to logan labs but now am not so sure.
Pro-Mix has tested at 195meq, and sphagnum peat ranges from 100 - 200meq.
I had this problem with my local lab recently and got a refund after they admitted they could not being able to process peat moss based soil properly. I was going to ship to logan labs but now am not so sure.
