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big plant ppk

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Hola fellow ppkers! LTNS!!

I've been extremely busy ppking my ass off and finally found time to drop in and say high!

In my last post I stated I would tell about my first ppk run so here goes. I had great success with little to no issues until the very last week or so before chop. One of my biggest girls started to yellow quickly, I had already noticed it was draining slower by the day so I realized it was drowning. I cut off water to her and let her stand until she dried out the turface then I hand watered her until chop.

Root inspection showed a solid mass of root with a bit of rot in the tailpiece. There was a solid mat of roots about 3/4" thick that had literally raised up the entire plant media and all. Remember I'm using 3 1/2 gallons buckets with 6 inches of turface as media. That particular plant was the heaviest and went a bit over 18 ounces dry. In fact out of 8 plants, 5 different strains, only 3 were under a pound the smaller ones being slow veggers.

On to round 2 which I already had 4 girls vegging. Of the 4 I culled 2 because they simply weren't keepers which only left me with 2 to flower. Since I only had the 2 to flower I vegged them up to up to 42 inches then flipped with 3 1000 watters hanging between them. They outgrew the buckets 3 weeks into flower. They suddenly drained very, very slowly so I knew I had screwed up. I decided to transplant into a larger bucket similar to the newest model D9 uses with the huge tailpiece. I hated transplanting during flower but didn't see any alternatives. The transplant went pretty well considering. I noticed no shock or slow down in growth but the buds did not swell the final week like they did first round. The plants had hundreds of budsites tho and the final weight tally of the heaviest plant went a shocking 44.5 ounces dry! Again this was with 3000 watts hanging in front of it in a large vertical scrog and during the final 2 weeks I hung a 400 watt MH on the back side. I honestly think if the buds had swelled anywhere near like the first round it would have beat 5 pounds.

I learned my lesson and have since set up a perpetual with 10 girls in flower in the smaller buckets. This time I'm vegging to about 2 foot and am preparing to stick the 10th plant in tomorrow which means one more week until the first plant comes down. They look fantastic.

I have had a few problems I want to mention. Thru out each grow I get what appears to me to be calcium spots and at also a slight magnesium deficiency. As I added plants to the perpetual week by week the EC started to spike upwards getting to around 2400. The plants appeared to be suffering so I watered it back down to 1800 or so with an input of 1200 still. Looks like it's still creeping upwards so I guess I'll have to lower the input more. Is anyone else seeing this?

As far as the calmag deficiency I see the same thing in the cloners I made like D9 used to use. It acts a lot like coco with its high CEC altho D9 says turface has a lower CEC than coco.

I'm still amazed each and every day as I tend this wonderful system D9 has developed with everyones input. It truly is easy to get bored and complacent and I have to hunt for something to do :D.

I see no recent posts by D9 but I see where he logged on last week so I hope all is well. D9 I can't say enough good things about you and how much I appreciate all the effort and willingness to help others in their quest for the grail! Please let me know if you're ever in the PNW as I'd love to treat you and your wife to a nice dinner.
 

DabOnDabs

Active member
Veteran
love the write up man; Question/Comment. It seems like you may be limiting yourself to an extent w/ the smaller buckets. Any reason why you cant run a 10 plant perpetual with the bigger pots, still keeping the plants a bit smaller for space...It would allow you to grow the 10 plants to their full potential/size that you're comfortable w/ without overusing the the size of your medium containers.

Just a thought. Glad shits working out for you, and really impressed on the 44oz plant. Would love to see a pic of that bitch. Share plz ;)
 

flat9

Member
Hey since D9 took down the pics, here's the parts you really need for the main parts of the build (sans the plumbing, for which I used standard hydro parts):

Tuff Stuff 7 gallon tub: http://www.greatplainshardware.com/products/kmd102-7g-feed-dish.html
Some sort of Cycle Timer: http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=12922
3" PVC or ABS Pipe: http://www.homedepot.com/p/VPC-3-in-x-2-ft-Plastic-ABS-Pipe-1203/202300520
Carlon 3" Electrical Terminal Adapter (Male): http://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-3-in-Non-Metallic-Terminal-Adapter-E943L-CAR/100403994
Carlon 3" Electrical Terminal Adapter (Female): http://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-3-in-Non-Metallic-Female-Adapter-E942L-CAR/100184419

You'll also need a 3.5 gallon bucket for the res for each tub and a bucket lid. The only tricky part is cutting of the male adapter just after it widens (just after it screws in). I'll see if I can post some pics myself on here soon...
 

DabOnDabs

Active member
Veteran
I remember what it looked like, but the parts list definately helps. Good lookin dude.

Wasnt it Dave or someshit who tried to cut it using a miter saw ????? hahaha good times missing arms n shit.
 

flat9

Member
Grow4Flow I had that problem w/ my first PPK setup and then I cleaned the shit out of the 8822 and things started flying. Mister_D reports, however, to not clean the 8822 at all. My guess is that it comes down to the bag, but maybe it's worth giving your media a huge wash and seeing what happens?
 

flat9

Member
Okay since D9 deprived us of pics (hope you're doing well man! come back and drop knowledge on us sometime), here are some that I just took while making a PPK.

Materials were listed in the post above, but I forgot to mention:

-- gutter screen w/ 1/8" or smaller squares
-- 14" zip ties

See the pics attached. Basically, you gotta saw off the male fitting just above the threads, just above where it becomes wider. This male fitting then goes through a 3.5" hole (get a hole saw for this) that you have drilled in the bottom of the tub, and screws into the female fitting on the underside of the tub. Silicon or amazing goo (plumber's edition) in your 3" diameter PVC or ABS into the female fitting to make the tailpiece. Use a couple of 14" zip ties to hold on the gutter screen, add some glue to it, let dry, and build of tub + tailpiece is complete.

The tub is centered on the bucket by the bucket lid, which has a 4.25" hole drilled (by hole saw) in the center.
 

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flat9

Member
Also I think D9's original build called for the PVC being 4.5 inches, but I'm not quite sure. 5 inches should be plenty (and that's about what was shown above).
 

flat9

Member
Since I forgot to post a pic, here's what the male adapter looks like before you saw it down.
 

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hotboxes

Member
yup that's it.

just started a new round, for some reason after 2 weeks i still see no growth at all

How long since.you transplanted into the ppk top container? I.know in my experience once I transplanted into the ppk it took at least a week to settle into the pot before she took off. Also idk where.Your are but for me right now it's freezing out and its been hard for me to keep my humidity where it needs to be this may also be stopping or slowing growth. Hope you get it sorted man
 

Ttystikk

Member
Hey guys, forgive the noob, before posting this I actually did go back to the beginning of this thread only to find discussion referring to pics that weren't there.

Can y'all define 'PPK' for me?

What exactly are you trying to build in the pics above? I see construction pics, but I have no idea what you'll use it for?

Anyway, hello all, I'm just trying to learn about what you all had posted here, I'm always looking for new tips and tech.
 

Mister_D

Active member
Veteran
A PPK (a.k.a passive plant killer) is a hybrid growing system that combines wick feeding with top fed recirculating flood/drain setup. Premise is that the wick removes the perched water table, acts as a drain for the flood cycle, as well as feeding the plant in the event of pump failure. In addition there is top feed that floods the upper pot every 1.5-3 hours to refresh oxygen levels, and keep nutrient and ph consistent. There are quite a few grow threads on the site using various versions of the ppk. All operate on the same basic principals, but the design has gone through a lot of revisions over the last couple years.
 

Ttystikk

Member
Thank you, Mister D, I do appreciate a well crafted explanation. If I may, do the proponents of the approach claim any performance advantage over more traditional deep tub RDWC, or other methods? So far, it sounds like a robust system for dealing with trouble spots, I like that.
 

flat9

Member
Ttystikk if you look back in the thread I was asking the same question, and also had run RDWC before. Basically you get comparable growth rates without any of the pitfalls (root rot) and you also forgo the extra electric costs associated with running air and water pumps 24/7 (although the air pumps aren't really necessary if you top feed through hydroton). I'll post some pics here shortly...
 

flat9

Member
Some pics. Phantom cookies at day 1 from rooted clone and again at day 16. Should mention that I don't quite have everything dialed down yet (how often to pulse feed, humidity, etc.), but it's growing pretty well under LED.
 

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Ttystikk

Member
Ttystikk if you look back in the thread I was asking the same question, and also had run RDWC before. Basically you get comparable growth rates without any of the pitfalls (root rot) and you also forgo the extra electric costs associated with running air and water pumps 24/7 (although the air pumps aren't really necessary if you top feed through hydroton). I'll post some pics here shortly...

Yes, I'm reading from the beginning, although there seems to be some missing spots. Thanks for the quick heads up.

I do a similar airless RDWC, I just let a 1/2" line waterfall into each site, churning the water's surface. Would it be better if I were to run it through the hydroton instead?
 

Mister_D

Active member
Veteran
Thank you, Mister D, I do appreciate a well crafted explanation. If I may, do the proponents of the approach claim any performance advantage over more traditional deep tub RDWC, or other methods? So far, it sounds like a robust system for dealing with trouble spots, I like that.

Flat9 pretty well summed it up. Comparable growth rates to RDWC without needing all the bells and whistles to keep the nasties at bay. The other advantages being the design allows you adjust the moisture content of your chosen media via the air gap (removes the perched water table resulting in more prolific rooting). Then maintains that specific level automatically (as long as your reservoir lasts) without any power inputs required (wick fed hydro). The regular flood/drain cycles keep your media rich with oxygen while maintaining consistent ph and EC. That combined with removing the perched water table results in explosive root growth, which leads to big fuckin' plants that grow big fuckin' nugs :biggrin:
 
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