big plant ppk

[flat9]

Thanks you two for helping out! Here are some answers...

Q: what is your "air gap" in inches?
A: I was following pretty much everything I saw in the thread, so 3".

Q: did you wash the 8822?
A: I did, but there is still a significant amount of dust that builds up around the edges of the tub. My method was to run it under water in a strainer and then dump into the tub. Then I ran water through it by throwing it in the shower.

Q: is the flood complete? that is, does it totally fill the container at least to the top of the medium?
A: Yes.

Q: how long does it take to do this?
A: 60 seconds. I have an 800 gph pump and it takes about 60 ... maybe a bit less.

Q: how long does it take to completely drain the top container after a full pulse?
A: I think the full drain takes about another 60 seconds, but I haven't timed it. It definitely isn't long.

Q: what is your water quality?
A: It's tap, but EC is 0.08 and pH is about 8. After I add Jack's it comes to about 6.4. I did in fact add some pH down to get it to 5.8 but it wasn't much.

Q: what is your solution temperature? cold water slows growth radically.
A: The reservoir is actually in the tent so it shouldn't be much different than ambient, which is 78 F.

Q: do you have any pics?
A: Not at this time. I could get some soon and upload 'em, but just been a bit busy.

I guess what would be most helpful at this point is to answer the following admittedly n00b-esque questions:

1) You recommend just ignoring pH and letting it do its own thing? Jack's has humic/fulvic acids to broaden the range of nute uptake akin to AN's pH perfect, or is pH not as important as I'm led to believe?
2) Ideally, do I want the 8822 to be damp at all times? Do I want to let it dry out? How do I know what is "optimal" for my environment?
3) Presuming the 8822 isn't washed "enough," what kind of effect would that have on this system?

Also, Alien Dawg, I have no idea whether a similar hack works for the CAP AIR-1. I just found that! I meant to buy the CAP AIR-2 but I realized I'm a bit low on funds right now to spend on more garden stuff, so I'm just using a Lux temperature sensor to toggle the extraction and (active) intake when necessary (everything is vegging right now so scents aren't a problem and I don't need to run the filter 24/7). Maybe ask the OP in that link whether or not the hack works for other models or how to modify that hack?

Alright everyone thanks again for your help! It's very much appreciated.

 

[high life 45]

What about a CAP AIR-1 ? I got more wires. ..lol

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=50146&pictureid=1174031View Image

View Image
View image in gallery​

In theory you could possibly switch the "on" and "off" wires to get it to do what you want?

Yes thats right, in theory there are possibilities. (me laughing at myself)

Do you have a multimeter? ......never mind way too many dabs deep right now


@ flat9 Id be interested to see what happens if you let some mixed Jacks sit for a day... for some reason feel like it would go below 6.4, can you let some sit after being fully mixed for a night, then take readings the next day..



For whom it may concern..Me and my grobros and patients washed a shitload of 8822, we never recycled it and had 24+top buckets at any given point.
It was a pain in the butt and I often thought about how much it would be worth to have it pre-washed "what would I pay for prewashed 8822?"
When I didnt screen it, I had lots of clogging issues, that may have had to do with many other variables though.
That said even though D9 doesnt screen it, I would in any of my environments.

Good luck, and yall better post up some pics or start threads, this is a two way street!

Sharon Is Karen

 

[flat9]

Hey HL45 ...

I'm going to wait to see what D9 has to say as well, but that's a very good suggestion. I had bought four tubs, but only set up two (that's all my space allows for currently, but I may expand the operation to if round 1 goes well enough).

I think barring D9's suggestion otherwise, I may try setting up the two other tubs w/ a brand new batch of 8822, and really wash the hell out of it this time more so than last time (though I thought I was rather thorough last time around). I'll also do a res change at the same time and record the pH levels like you suggested while just letting it sit there...

 

[bearded1]

Haven't logged in in very long time. Your first thread is why I'm back. Didn't have time to try starting a ppk. (wife got sick) logged on to reread thread and I'll be damned if you didn't take over the world. ha ha ha. I Like the changes . Now that things are better I'm going to build a small one. Sure wish I had already done it. Love the changes you've made, they make all the sense in the world.

 

[flat9]

Speaking of which, the images of the first ppk thread are largely gone. Does anyone have a printout by any chance of the original thread?!

 

[delta9nxs]

Thanks you two for helping out! Here are some answers...

Q: what is your "air gap" in inches?
A: I was following pretty much everything I saw in the thread, so 3".

Q: did you wash the 8822?
A: I did, but there is still a significant amount of dust that builds up around the edges of the tub. My method was to run it under water in a strainer and then dump into the tub. Then I ran water through it by throwing it in the shower.

Q: is the flood complete? that is, does it totally fill the container at least to the top of the medium?
A: Yes.

Q: how long does it take to do this?
A: 60 seconds. I have an 800 gph pump and it takes about 60 ... maybe a bit less.

Q: how long does it take to completely drain the top container after a full pulse?
A: I think the full drain takes about another 60 seconds, but I haven't timed it. It definitely isn't long.

Q: what is your water quality?
A: It's tap, but EC is 0.08 and pH is about 8. After I add Jack's it comes to about 6.4. I did in fact add some pH down to get it to 5.8 but it wasn't much.

Q: what is your solution temperature? cold water slows growth radically.
A: The reservoir is actually in the tent so it shouldn't be much different than ambient, which is 78 F.

Q: do you have any pics?
A: Not at this time. I could get some soon and upload 'em, but just been a bit busy.

I guess what would be most helpful at this point is to answer the following admittedly n00b-esque questions:

1) You recommend just ignoring pH and letting it do its own thing? Jack's has humic/fulvic acids to broaden the range of nute uptake akin to AN's pH perfect, or is pH not as important as I'm led to believe?
2) Ideally, do I want the 8822 to be damp at all times? Do I want to let it dry out? How do I know what is "optimal" for my environment?
3) Presuming the 8822 isn't washed "enough," what kind of effect would that have on this system?

Also, Alien Dawg, I have no idea whether a similar hack works for the CAP AIR-1. I just found that! I meant to buy the CAP AIR-2 but I realized I'm a bit low on funds right now to spend on more garden stuff, so I'm just using a Lux temperature sensor to toggle the extraction and (active) intake when necessary (everything is vegging right now so scents aren't a problem and I don't need to run the filter 24/7). Maybe ask the OP in that link whether or not the hack works for other models or how to modify that hack?

Alright everyone thanks again for your help! It's very much appreciated.

hey, flat, sorry i'm so late responding but i had some family stuff to take care of.

well, the good news is that you are doing everything right on paper and the bad news is that i still don't have a clue why you are having problems.

your small ph correction doesn't look dangerous but i would let it run untreated for 3-5 days to see if the solution stabilises on it's own.

jack's has no humic/fulvics but is still the most stable nutrient i've ever used.

you want the 8822 or turface to be wet at all times, 24/7, so you cycle through the dark period also. i allow a slight dry crust to form but, at 90 minutes, the medium just under the surface is visibly wet.

but i'm running a very tightly sealed, super insulated room and your flood timing will be slightly different.

the overall tune-ability of the device allows complete control over the moisture content of the medium.

the 8822 in the bag is full of superfine particle that blocks the micropores of each individual piece and affects the overall air filled porosity.

i don't obsess about it but i do wash it thoroughly.

i wash in a cement mixing container with running water using a hoe to turn the particles over.

well, again, sorry for the delay. d9

 

[delta9nxs]

Haven't logged in in very long time. Your first thread is why I'm back. Didn't have time to try starting a ppk. (wife got sick) logged on to reread thread and I'll be damned if you didn't take over the world. ha ha ha. I Like the changes . Now that things are better I'm going to build a small one. Sure wish I had already done it. Love the changes you've made, they make all the sense in the world.

welcome back!

 

[flat9]

Hey D9 no worries. Right now the girl in coco is about twice as large as the one in the ppk, which is frustrating, but what can I do?

I also added humidity to get the RH up to about 50-70% at all times. It isn't precisely controlled (it's a five gallon bucket w/ a pond fogger on a float and a fan to distribute the humidity) but I think this is pretty good.

I think the only possibility now is that I didn't wash it well enough. So tomorrow I'm going to make two new PPKs, wash the friggin hell out of the 8822 (I did wash a lot before but perhaps this wasn't enough), clean out my system, and give it another whirl. I'll report back on progress (or lack thereof).

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Hey D9 no worries. Right now the girl in coco is about twice as large as the one in the ppk, which is frustrating, but what can I do?

I also added humidity to get the RH up to about 50-70% at all times. It isn't precisely controlled (it's a five gallon bucket w/ a pond fogger on a float and a fan to distribute the humidity) but I think this is pretty good.

I think the only possibility now is that I didn't wash it well enough. So tomorrow I'm going to make two new PPKs, wash the friggin hell out of the 8822 (I did wash a lot before but perhaps this wasn't enough), clean out my system, and give it another whirl. I'll report back on progress (or lack thereof).

You can always run the buckets minus plants with plane water for a couple days then change over to new Jacked water for a day and add then plants...

Clean and charged...

2 cent...

 

[flat9]

I'm not sure I follow AD. How would this clean the system? Seems like any dusty bits in there would still be in there...

 

[farmari]

flat9 what type of plant containers are you using? I mean what volume and height are the plant containers for both the coco and ppk?
I ask wondering if the young ppk plant has roots a bit too high from the PWT to grow at an optimal rate. I haven't grown in 8822 only tested and read about but it sounds like it can get dry near the surface pretty quickly.

you want the 8822 or turface to be wet at all times, 24/7, so you cycle through the dark period also. i allow a slight dry crust to form but, at 90 minutes, the medium just under the surface is visibly wet.

Does the dry top get dusty at all or does the dust formation stop after the initial washing? 8822 is calcined which apparently is a lot more hazardous than natural / food grade diatomite and can cause lung disease, or at least it does to workers chronically exposed to it. Just a heads up for yourself and others. I've had enough hazardous dust this year in the form of perlite (I can feel immediate irritation to my sinuses and lungs when opening a bag of both 8822 and perlite) so I think I'm going to return the floor dry and go back to coco

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

I'm not sure I follow AD. How would this clean the system? Seems like any dusty bits in there would still be in there...

Running the system a couple days will wash the dust out into the res.
Then change out the dirty water and refill with jacks...

The water in my pools ran dirty for the 1st day or so.
Then you could see the dust settle on the bottom pool...

Changed out the water and she runs clean...

I did a lousy wash. .lol...

 

[flat9]

Ahh I gotcha. Thanks for the suggestion I think I'll just try changing out the water first (it's been running for quite a long time) to see if that has an effect...

 

[flat9]

flat9 what type of plant containers are you using? I mean what volume and height are the plant containers for both the coco and ppk?
I ask wondering if the young ppk plant has roots a bit too high from the PWT to grow at an optimal rate. I haven't grown in 8822 only tested and read about but it sounds like it can get dry near the surface pretty quickly.



Does the dry top get dusty at all or does the dust formation stop after the initial washing? 8822 is calcined which apparently is a lot more hazardous than natural / food grade diatomite and can cause lung disease, or at least it does to workers chronically exposed to it. Just a heads up for yourself and others. I've had enough hazardous dust this year in the form of perlite (I can feel immediate irritation to my sinuses and lungs when opening a bag of both 8822 and perlite) so I think I'm going to return the floor dry and go back to coco

I'm using 3.5 gallon black buckets from home depot, and the tuff stuff tubs that D9 uses. The girls in coco are fed once a day (at best) hand watered and they're in 5 gal geopot containers (which I realize is totally unnecessary but that's all the store I went to had).

Yeah, I think I gotta chalk up the bad results to a shitty wash job. I'll go ahead and clean out my stuff and see what happens.

 

[high life 45]

Set up my first glueless ppk last night thanks to d9 innovations!

Had one leak and tightened a fitting and it stopped!!!



Famari you dont want to inhale any dust from any grow products ever.

I know that certain sources of DE are supposed to be better than others, and I have used agricultural grade de and it was visually identical to some of the auto stores floordry.

The people who mention lead levels are usually the one selling the "food grade" de. I think the stuff you want to stay away from is the kind used for chemical processing and for swimming pool filtration.

Calcined just means they heated it right? I think its to remove moisture and make the product more absorbant more than anything.

IDK just methinks..

 

[Grow4Flow]

is there a need to glue the sawed drain fitting in the tub?

 

[farmari]

The people who mention lead levels are usually the one selling the "food grade" de. I think the stuff you want to stay away from is the kind used for chemical processing and for swimming pool filtration.

Calcined just means they heated it right? I think its to remove moisture and make the product more absorbant more than anything.

IDK just methinks..

IIRC from what I read (just wikipedia and some other sites) the heating changes the silica into a crystalline form that is a lot more damaging to the lungs.

from wikipedia:

Silicosis is the most common occupational lung disease worldwide; it occurs everywhere, but is especially common in developing countries.[17] From 1991 to 1995, China reported more than 24,000 deaths due to silicosis each year.[8] In the United States, it is estimated that one million-two million[18] workers have had occupational exposure to crystalline silica dust and 59,000 of these workers will develop silicosis sometime in the course of their lives.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomite#Specific_varieties

I think next I'm going to try coco PPK trays using those Lowes mixing tubs. The tailpieces will be 6" net pots, so they better not clog! lol
An arsenal of Bt, fly traps, ladybugs, and predator mites hopefully will attempt to keep the gnats at bay. (and probably fail!)
No turface for me because I lack the facilities and brain capacity to prepare the stuff.

 

[high life 45]

Yes, Im pretty sure its absorbant properties are what cause damage to your lungs.

More absorbant=more damaging (to your lungs and to bugs)

What I was goin after was the calcined stuff shouldn't necessarily have more lead.

If anyone out there is really afraid just buy a 27 gallon tote and put the bag in there and fill it up halfway with water.

After the waters in there poke holes in the bag and the water will seep in and you shouldn't have to deal with any dust.

Cut the bag away, remove it, and begin your washing process.

IMO if ya want to use coco you should have a good understanding of CEC, "cal mag issues" and why people often run into them with coco...(mmmmmm K)

D9 im sure will chime in on his precharging levels..

 

[Devoted1]

hey d9, do you put a screen on top of the 3" fitting and the bottom? or just the bottom, thanks.

ohh shitt i had a brain fart, i was thinking about somehting else, i just looked at the pics and there was never a screen on the top of the tail pipe, im embarressed hahaha. i also need to edit my post in deserts thread.

 

[ProvisionSeeds]

looks interesting,