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Big John's Trees

Big John

Big John

Member
forkup said:
Dunno how I overlooked this but damn nice op man. Killer setup, I like the big tubs! The drt-1 is expensive for a timer but should last a long time and it makes adjustments sooo easy. The temp gun will allow you to plug leaf temps into the vpd formula giving you more accurate results.
Click to expand...


Thanks forkup! Yeah I dig the idea of an infrared heat gun but this specific one seems to get less accurate the more temps you take with it in a row, which is frustrating when trying to sample many different parts of a canopy. I just saw where they now have a DRT-1a to replace the discontinued DRT-1. Looks pretty cool, it'd be nice to have something precise and durable.
 
D

DHF

Hey Big John......Happy Independence Day if you`re in the US......Wanted ta stop in while all my meat`s on autopilot in the smokers to show respect for a well thought out and detailed setup....

D9 should be proud.....and Disciple on site for tech support`s ALWAYS a big +.....now.......although Disciple`s dead on about increasing CO2 levels for the plants to take advantage of as they ramp up metabolism with elevated ambient temps , as you said it`s difficult to increase said levels with active exhaust.....but....

If yas only have a "passive" intake into the grow area , then adding "active" intake fan with fresh outside air into said area , it`d go a long way in stabilizing room temps as long as you`re not suckin in high temp fresh air from the get.....

I grew in basements with an upper "crawlspace" I pulled in cool fresh air from foundation vents to supply my lungrooms with constantly ambient CO2 ppm`s in the 750 range per my monitors in each flip room and did well with mid 80`s temps mostly during the summer months with a/c there as a failsafe and did well for many yurs.......so......IOW.....

With higher lights on temps transpiration increases along with nutrient solution uptake , and if the plants can`t use the nutrients they`ll be stored and EC will soar and PH will drop , but in a dialed recirculating system as the plants eat ppm`s will drop and ph will rise gradually......but.....

The top off into the bulk rez will always be addin fresh juice that should equalize the difference between what`s being eaten and what`s recirculated back to rez , so if you`re seeing leaf claw reduce your e/c/ppm`s till the fans come back to stickin straight up and out with lights on/off temps kept within a 10 degree variable.....

Can`t tell yas anything about PPK`s and their tendencies , so I`ll defer to the experts , but again wanted to stop in and say although I don`t post much these days , I`ll be over here on my bucket hopin for heavy Harvey`s......now.....the only other thing is the "VPD" thingy as in 70% RH till end of stretch and as close to and below 50% till end of cycle for optimum environmental control with proper watts per sq ft IME.......anyways.....

Back to grillin and chillin , rather smokin and chokin......on bongs that is.....

Happy 4th guys......

Peace.....Freds.....:ying:.....
 
Big John

Big John

Member
disciple said:
there's a few of us in the PPK threads that have observed it's possible to find an input concentration level that is high enough for plant health and robust growth and low enough that EC readings stabilize through the crop cycle.

this can be a bit more difficult if you have large, lights on temperature swings. Temps stay down in the 76 range, nutes get used up.... temps climb and take-up slows while water disappears quicker.

this is going to sound a little unconventional. if you can figure out what your rough costs would be to burn propane (CO2 burner), even with the active exhaust, it will help your garden with those high temps. It may not be in the budget and certainly CO2 benefits sealed rooms the most, but it may make sense in this one specific situation at least until fall (lower ambient temps) and it would be the easiest thing to add (burner and tank).

You could even forgo a controller for the moment and grab some of those glass sticks. After a few days of random checks you'll know what the levels look like.

A few tanks of propane are not super expensive. (bottled CO2 would not be a route I'd consider here)


remember that in flower there is a higher demand for nutrients so expect to have to increase the concentration.

Again, really nice room. In addition to the chicken wire, I recall DHF describing the benefits of angled ceilings. You've got the full setup (minus sealed room and air conditioning).

I'd point out that a large portable A/C unit (dual hose - drawing from outside if possible) could potentially get your temps down enough with those (5) lights that you could seal the room up and add CO2 and be completely dialed. At that point tanked CO2 would be worth trying to reduce the extra heat of a burner....

If you see D9's space, it is sealed up and well insulated and that's really key... if you can get a small gap between day and night temps, you'll max out your yield (and quality).

** ok so i went back and read your first few posts. you're flipping 4 lights i think and even if you add a 600 in you will find a large portable A/C will handle the load (certainly enough to seal it up and dump in CO2).

It's always surprising just how much passive intake must be increased to really get temps down when the garden is larger than a closet or cabinet. It's like after so many hours into the photoperiod, everything in the room heats up and then seems to warm incoming air very quickly (which of course defeats the attempt to bring ambient temps down)
Click to expand...

I think I'll hold off on going sealed at this spot. I've definitely thought about it before, but the fall/winter/spring environment around here puts the room at just about perfect conditions for growth, though I could always use a little more RH for dialed VPD, and I do need to build some sort of fan controller/thermostat to really dial in temps. Going fully sealed w/ co2 just wouldn't be cost or time efficient for this space. As the temps cool down this fall I'm going to look into pulling more wire and bumping up the lighting wattage. Right now I'm pretty much maxing out what I can safely use on the circuits to the room, so any major additional equipment would require new runs of wiring.

I'm not much for doing things halfway, If I go sealed I'd want a mini split, a dehuey, a humidifier, co2, environmental control, etc. Of course, a Texas sized power bill ain't exactly what I'm aiming for either. It's also a lot more equipment, any piece of it going wrong could mean big problems. To be honest with ya half my motivation for going with ppks was getting my room to a point where I'd feel comfortable getting away for a weekend :)

I know a lot of guys are going sealed these days, but Heath always did pretty well with an active exhaust. And if I could do half as well as that guy I'd be happier than a pig in shit :biggrin:
 
Big John

Big John

Member
DHF said:
Hey Big John......Happy Independence Day if you`re in the US......Wanted ta stop in while all my meat`s on autopilot in the smokers to show respect for a well thought out and detailed setup....

D9 should be proud.....and Disciple on site for tech support`s ALWAYS a big +.....now.......although Disciple`s dead on about increasing CO2 levels for the plants to take advantage of as they ramp up metabolism with elevated ambient temps , as you said it`s difficult to increase said levels with active exhaust.....but....

If yas only have a "passive" intake into the grow area , then adding "active" intake fan with fresh outside air into said area , it`d go a long way in stabilizing room temps as long as you`re not suckin in high temp fresh air from the get.....

I grew in basements with an upper "crawlspace" I pulled in cool fresh air from foundation vents to supply my lungrooms with constantly ambient CO2 ppm`s in the 750 range per my monitors in each flip room and did well with mid 80`s temps mostly during the summer months with a/c there as a failsafe and did well for many yurs.......so......IOW.....

With higher lights on temps transpiration increases along with nutrient solution uptake , and if the plants can`t use the nutrients they`ll be stored and EC will soar and PH will drop , but in a dialed recirculating system as the plants eat ppm`s will drop and ph will rise gradually......but.....

The top off into the bulk rez will always be addin fresh juice that should equalize the difference between what`s being eaten and what`s recirculated back to rez , so if you`re seeing leaf claw reduce your e/c/ppm`s till the fans come back to stickin straight up and out with lights on/off temps kept within a 10 degree variable.....

Can`t tell yas anything about PPK`s and their tendencies , so I`ll defer to the experts , but again wanted to stop in and say although I don`t post much these days , I`ll be over here on my bucket hopin for heavy Harvey`s......now.....the only other thing is the "VPD" thingy as in 70% RH till end of stretch and as close to and below 50% till end of cycle for optimum environmental control with proper watts per sq ft IME.......anyways.....

Back to grillin and chillin , rather smokin and chokin......on bongs that is.....

Happy 4th guys......

Peace.....Freds.....:ying:.....
Click to expand...

Good to see ya in here Fred! Hope your day of brews, bowls, bikinis, and barbeque is a good one :biggrin:

I've learned a lot listening to your advice over the years, in fact many of the decisions I've made setting up this room came from that. It's not a 4 plant 5 lighter, but only because I had enough extra length to turn it into a 6 plant 6 lighter. Just gotta get those two other sites filled and I'll get this perpetual thing really fired up. Between you, D9, Disciple, and the rest of the vert crew this thread is filling up with more knowledgeable vets than I could have hoped for.

Adding an active intake fan in parallel to the passive intakes does sound like a good idea, I'm going to look into that. Right now it's a bit more complicated than passive intake --> active exhaust, as the veg exhaust mixes with the passive intake air before being pulled into the room. I've got it set up now where they both pull from a shaded area, which is how I've gotten the temps down to a max of 82 even though outside temps were over 90.

I'm definitely working on getting the min/max temp within a 10 degree range. One idea I have is to get a fan speed controller hooked up to a thermostat for the 10" max fan exhaust. I'd like the fan going full blast over a set temp, say 70 degrees or so, then dial down to a real low speed when temps drop below 70. Unfortunately most of the shit they sell at hydro stores just straight shuts the fan off when temps drop, which can't happen. I need air coming in for co2 and RH purposes, and I need constant negative pressure in the room so that the only air getting out has gone through the fan/carbon filter setup, and isn't stinking up the neighborhood.

What I'm thinking right now is a SPDT relay hooked up to the thermostat and speed controller. The neutrals would go straight through. The open side would be wired to the fan's hot line. The closed side would first go through a variac or solid state speed controller, then be wired to the same hot line. So when the relay is in "open" position the fan gets full power, when it flips to "closed" the power goes through the speed controller first. I'd like to find an electrician to run this by first for advice, and find out what kind of thermostat I'd need.

For now though I need to get off the computer and get to a barbeque. Y'all have a good 4th!
 
Big John

Big John

Member
I had an idea for reducing the heat a little bit and increasing humidity. I could get some of the replacement pads for evaporative coolers and set them across my intakes. I'll have to set them up so they have a water supply. The exhaust fan would then pull air through them, hopefully cooling it down a bit and adding some humidity. It might add too much static pressure, could be I need separate fan to make it work. But if I can find some pads on the cheap I think I'll give it a shot. Even if it pulls the temps down it wouldn't be good for all year round, but it might help me through this heat wave. What does everyone think?

Any of ya used swamp coolers or evaporative coolers before?

I got an update on the ladies for y'all later tonight. For now though, back to work!
 
Big John

Big John

Member
Ok, here's the photo update! We're at day 21 past the flip now, and, though not for lack of trying, they're still not dead :biggrin:



I had the thought once or twice this week "perhaps they're finished stetching." Then I took a look at the pictures... Nope. I shoulda got with the bondage already, gonna start to tie em and spread em here real soon.



#2, what a gal.



#4 Frankenstein over here still going strong. This tree has a split trunk, I bent the main top early on in an effort to control the height, and she just started pumping away on one of the lateral branches. It's now almost become dominant. I'll get photos next time, it's on the back side of this photo, facing the 600.



Close up.

So where are we at, still got a bit of leaf claw. Temps still hotter than a two dollar pistol. 76-84 or so. Swamp cooler here I come!

System EC still at 1.15 mS, Ph still low, 5 or so. The batch of turface I got was real acidic. I thought it would sort of buffer it's way up with the nutrient solution, but it seems it's the other way round. I know others have gotten turface that's perfect at 6 or 6.5, not these bags. I added some calcium carbonate to the control reservoir today to try and bring the solution up a little bit, I'll see where that ends up by tomorrow.

What else, got started on the veg room ppk setup, a few things on order, awful lot brewing. Literally brewing, I've got a 5 gallon bucket for ACT going right now

Enjoy yourselves out there amigos, it's summer, that might be a bummer for growing but it sure is great for living!
 
moritzst

moritzst

Active member
big johns big trees, they ll still stretch out for some inch :), nice style going on there
greez mo
 
Big John

Big John

Member
I NEED A MEDIC! Vert triage unit, assemble in the barn, stat!

Ok, ok, maybe a bit dramatic :biggrin:

But I got some deficiencies popping up, and I wanna take care of this ASAP before it get's worse.

YW9TB7o.jpg


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Got back from a weekend away and saw this. It wasn't an awful lot of leaves affected, these were the worst. Also seeing reddish/purplish leaf stems. Some of these look like a potassium deficiency to me. It could be I've locked some things out with the pH swings my system has been going though. I'd just finally gotten it to settle around 5.5 with a high pH tap water/CaCO3 solution. EC is at 1.05.

I'm thinking I'll go drain and refill the reservoir with fresh solution, as I have the new larger res and 1800gph mag drive to install anyways.

What do y'all think? What's the best course of action here?
I was thinking of a potassium sillicate foliar, good idea, bad idea, worst idea?
 
Big John

Big John

Member
v2eTlOx.jpg


U5py22D.jpg


e0vU0n4.jpg


Couple I couldn't fit into the last post, and a wide shot so you can see the condition of the full plant. All those images are from BD #4, I have not seen these symptoms on any of the others so far.
 
icdog

icdog

Member
I haven't had time to read all the posts but my ppk ph hung around the low 5 range for awhile and the plants were very unhappy, first time with the system so I was testing. Now I raise it to 6.5 in the res and in 5 hours or so it drops back down so I raise it back up. Since I've done that they are growing and recovered, the difference is dramatic. I'd say its ph.
I also put changed out the water, this didn't effect the ph changes though. I might get a doser for this problem.
 
B

Born Loser

Member
icdog said:
I haven't had time to read all the posts but my ppk ph hung around the low 5 range for awhile and the plants were very unhappy, first time with the system so I was testing. Now I raise it to 6.5 in the res and in 5 hours or so it drops back down so I raise it back up. Since I've done that they are growing and recovered, the difference is dramatic. I'd say its ph.
I also put changed out the water, this didn't effect the ph changes though. I might get a doser for this problem.
Click to expand...

Ditto. Exact look I had. My meter was off, and once I got the ph up it was all good.
 
D

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
hey, it can only be the water, the nutrients, and the additives, of course as there is nothing else there to cause this.

something that you are putting in the res is not working well with something else.

i've just scanned your thread and don't see what your water is like. maybe i missed it but if you could list everything you are putting in the res it would help.

type of water, ro or tap with ppm.

nutrients at the concentration you are using.

and any additives including ph adjusters.

there is some kind of stimulation or antagonism going on.
 
B

Born Loser

Member
Big John said:
Some of these look like a potassium deficiency to me. It could be I've locked some things out with the pH swings my system has been going though. I'd just finally gotten it to settle around 5.5 with a high pH tap water/CaCO3 solution. EC is at 1.05.

I'm thinking I'll go drain and refill the reservoir with fresh solution, as I have the new larger res and 1800gph mag drive to install anyways.

What do y'all think? What's the best course of action here?
I was thinking of a potassium sillicate foliar, good idea, bad idea, worst idea?
Click to expand...

Personally Id shoot for higher than 5.5 ph.
Check your meters too. Nothing like chasing your tail to find out it was a faulty meter.
 
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