on my 4th bale with no probs in socal. i just switched cause the higher perlite content of number 4
Be Careful With Sunshine Mix 4
- Thread starter HossCartwright
- Start date
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vonforne
You should mix and lime the soil months before you use it. NEVER use anything out of the bag.
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HossCartwright
Member
Pretty sure they were locked out, burned and deficient. No way I would add heavy fertilizer to a medium that is reading 3000+ppm/5.0-ph at runoff. 2 days since flush, new growth is green and looks good. Plants will be fine.nothing wrong with peat based mediums , the uniform water holding capcity of peat is a plus especially when going for the "wet-dry" approach to watering which i've seen stellar results & higher resin production from those that lovingly handwater their crops . But its good that u sound some alarm for vigilance is always a plus when using these mass produced mediums .
Its true that they have to dolomite/lime these peat based products because of the natural acidity of the peat itself , so that your ppms initially will give sky high readings at the first . This is about true of all soil planting mixes as a rule though , when u test the runoff from the first few waterings . Am using Sun#4 myself which has been working just fine all along but your questioning here does raise some concern for me too . The ProMix HP is an equivilent product & what i've liked about both is ease of use & the lightness of the mix for good root airation . Presently having no problems at all with the SunMix4, with no bugs etc ... and plants looking just fine .
As with any sterilized non fertilized medium , one has to remember to "Charge" the medium first with some 3 waterings in of slightly higher ppms of nutes , say around the 1200-1400ppm range with 200ppms of that being CalMag which has some nitrogen value too being Calcium & Magnesium Nitrate both . As with Coco or R/w , alot of people have some nutrient deficiencies right off forgetting to really go ahead & "CHARGE" the medium in the first 3 waterings . Think u might find this is your problem instead of lockout issues you are not hitting it hard enough , tat first . Once u get the medium charged then back off to 1000ppms or so & all should be fine ....also try some goode ol heavy doses of Liquid Karma Or Florlicious + along qith the extra heavy nutes .
Think u will find you & your plants are good to go !
best regards
mr
PS: Just remember sun4 is a sterile non nuted mix & must be charged first .
LOL, Nah, Sunshine #4 SHOULD be fine out of the bag with no amendments.
So anyway, wasn't really looking for advice folks, just an FYI/heads up thread to warn about quality control when using this stuff so you don't fry your babies.
Cheers
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vonforne
I know that but I do not trust commercial companies and their advertising bullshit.
Yes, it should be but........it never is.
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Castelvetro
Member
im surprised to find that mircale grows potting mix which is compost n peat has out grown anything ive ever done both soil and coco. i added about 25 more perlite and a little lime. cheap , readily available and plants absolutely luv it, i think its funny when people spend big bucks for dirt and additives and make an elaborate mix and get deficiencies, not hating but i just enjoy hearing about it., i feed chems and am looking into bio bizz bloom. local hydro store says it outsells fox farms ocean forrest.
Youre right Castelvetro. The best growth i get outdoors is miracle grow with a cup of lime added and wholly molly where did that monster come from.
I still uses sunshine for containers, but as an outdoor soil the Mg with lime blows Sunshine and anything else ive used right out of the water.
I still uses sunshine for containers, but as an outdoor soil the Mg with lime blows Sunshine and anything else ive used right out of the water.
Castelvetro
Member
its crazy to me how good mg soil is, the texture is dam near spot on right out of the bag!! i was used to 1ft in plant height from seed in one month but know im almost getting 2ft. watering less then once a week........screw coco and expensive mixes for me, a friend is almost done with his run useing it, plants look incredible and he barely did anything, cheap, convienant, dont have to go to a grow store police sting shop to get it. im sold.
Well I've got 25, 3 gal pots going now using Sunshine #4 as a base. Another 25 going in 3 weeks or so.
But I added lime and other things, wet it with water and some liquid karma and let it sit in 20 gal bins in the garage for 5 or 6 weeks. So far it is looking good.
I just followed the directions in the "organics for beginners" thread on how to mix and prepare the soil. I've never had long term good luck just using any soil straight from a bag to pot (had a couple of grows using "roots organic" that I never limed that always showed problems around week 3 or 4, just as the plants started feeding like crazy. Just because it is a nursery bale of soil, why would you think the professional nursery operators use it straight from the bag like you did?
Just saying. I'll know more about this #4 mix in 7 weeks or so.
I also have some roots organic soil used as a base in a LC#2 mix just to see how that takes an eight week grow also.
Maybe you've just been lucky so far using bag soil without preparing it properly first.
But I added lime and other things, wet it with water and some liquid karma and let it sit in 20 gal bins in the garage for 5 or 6 weeks. So far it is looking good.
I just followed the directions in the "organics for beginners" thread on how to mix and prepare the soil. I've never had long term good luck just using any soil straight from a bag to pot (had a couple of grows using "roots organic" that I never limed that always showed problems around week 3 or 4, just as the plants started feeding like crazy. Just because it is a nursery bale of soil, why would you think the professional nursery operators use it straight from the bag like you did?
Just saying. I'll know more about this #4 mix in 7 weeks or so.
I also have some roots organic soil used as a base in a LC#2 mix just to see how that takes an eight week grow also.
Maybe you've just been lucky so far using bag soil without preparing it properly first.
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vonforne
and I would put money on it that you will not have one problem. You simply followed what has been tried and completed successfully before.
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HossCartwright
Member
I've been using FFOF, light warrior and happy frog right out of the bag for years with no problems. Recently ran a few plants in Canna Coco right out of the bag with no probs either. I like right out of the bag. Why aren't there instructions on how to properly use this stuff on the bag?
Stoned Crow
Member
My soil set up right now revolves around a Black Gold peat based mix, cut with perlite, EWC, lime, different guanos rock dusts or sand and seaweed (basically whatever is on hand or what is on sale). I always let it cook for 30 days minimum. No problems with seedlings, veg or flower at all. It gets even better with age...SC
localhero
Member
You said u limed it? not the pelletized right? not hydrated lime? if you used the powdered DOLOMITIC lime and to the right amounts, then you shouldnt have had an issue. other than that, if you used the right lime, did u add perlite? If you added perlite to your mix, did you add the lime to the perlite and mix? that could have fucked it up. I know i did that once lol. I only buy the peat, no crappy perlite mixed peat and then mix up the peat first with the lime, then add in whatever else is getting thrown in. well yeah they add some lime to the #4 but you should still add lime. thats another reason not to mess with mixed peat, you dont know how much they limed. or maybe that batch of #4 was under-limed and you got screwed. make your own, better quality control.
Rinsing any medium at the start isn't a bad idea..and then to "charge it" if soiless .
Recently starting up my new place decided to go completely with Sunshine mix#4 & did test it the other night getting a reading of around 2000ppms & PH of 6 which is in acceptable limits given almost all soil/mediums contain lime & buffers plus nutes .
(Testing some Humboldt Basement mix a few months back the PPM reading was off the chart over 3000ppms, though many have great experiences with it .)
Almost everything these days from growing mediums to the horti- lights we use , there is unprecedented increase in demand & strain put on production because of you, me , and ALL OF US ! And quality control becomes more of an issue with many companies . Speaking just today with one of the heads at Lumatek was mentioning that the 1000Eye Hortilux Bulbs have completely fallen down with quality issues due to such high demand & bulbs are constantly "popping" because of quality control being lost . Same thing can always be expected with with soil where complete composting isn't always done or in this case mediums like Sunshine mix .
In any case here's a nice SourD girl (tx Chemdog) in Sunshine #4 2wks into Flower & looking pretty healthy and to date have had nerry a problem with it . But had more problems with Coco than the Sun#4 so for the ease of use & results sticking with it for now .
(And this was using country well water to , thats reading 400-500ppms !
Next thing to fix asap..but this SD girl looking pretty good still , huh ?
)
Recently starting up my new place decided to go completely with Sunshine mix#4 & did test it the other night getting a reading of around 2000ppms & PH of 6 which is in acceptable limits given almost all soil/mediums contain lime & buffers plus nutes .
Mine tested similarly. I have a couple questions - if you are trying to watch nutrient load by watching your ppms, is part of that number from the lime and should be 'discounted'? For new clones, should some of that be flushed?
How long does that lime charge stick around for? If you are doing a long (over one month) veg, should you plan on supplementing with more calcium at a certain age?
So much to learn! I appreciate your information!
Mine tested similarly. I have a couple questions - if you are trying to watch nutrient load by watching your ppms, is part of that number from the lime and should be 'discounted'? For new clones, should some of that be flushed?
How long does that lime charge stick around for? If you are doing a long (over one month) veg, should you plan on supplementing with more calcium at a certain age?
So much to learn! I appreciate your information!
Just hit it with a good solid 1200ppms of any complete Nute formula with botanicare's CalMag @ rate of tsp/gal ( and Floralicious Plus/Liquid Karma to be extra fancy but great stuff ) & a little SuperThrive . Water this strength in about 3 times in succession till the run-off is about the same, then back off to 1000ppms & the medium is then charged . Plants should be green & really thriving ..and from there its plain water in between nutes using the "feel method" & the look of the plants . Important to always have some runn-off when watering ...
Down the road at any time u can run some plain water thru any size container while veggin/flowering , then catching the run-off in a qt jar/cup & measure the ppms/ph of that . That will tell u how much ppm's are in the medium & if u've gone too far or have had too much build up (1400-1600ppms or higher) . Then u flush ! Most plants really do fine around 1000-1200ppms especially when a good 200ppms of that is Cal/Mag which is fairly close to the magic bullet for getting the greenest & healthiest looking plants each time . Cal/Mag are two of the macro minerals that even people are usually not ever getting enough of, ' less u eats lots of spinach (chard kale etc) and are extremely important in the human diet as well .
PS: Most often i veg using only FloraNova Bloom & the CalMag which has/is in the form of Calcium & Magnesium nitrate. So the NPK is boosted from 4-8-6 to ---->6-8-6 or something like that & the floralicious plus has some nitrogen as well so u have almost a perfect veg formula without overdosing on the Nitrogen & plenty of phos for the rooting in. Have always found "FloraNova Grow" excessive on the nitrogen & getting wayyy too dark green leaf action ...any plant will grow/veg just fine with the above NPK ratio. So in effect i've improvised my own veg formula though fertilizer companies like to sell their "grow" formulas .
PPS : the largest selling standard fertilizer in the world has an NPK of 15-30-15.....most any plant generally will grow beautifully with that ratio
microgram
Member
Sunshine Mix #2 comes with powdered dolomite, #4 does not. #4 wont balance/sweeten out any PH issues.
Like vonforne said, always amend. Just because it says something on the bag doesn't represent what is in the bag. The label represents a "Perfect batch", not what might get mixed into it. Bugs will get into any mix if they are given an opportunity, the factory isn't vacuum sealed and im sure the workers aren't all as bright as our fellow sun.
UG!
Like vonforne said, always amend. Just because it says something on the bag doesn't represent what is in the bag. The label represents a "Perfect batch", not what might get mixed into it. Bugs will get into any mix if they are given an opportunity, the factory isn't vacuum sealed and im sure the workers aren't all as bright as our fellow sun.
UG!
obey
Member
Well I bought a bail of Sunshine mix #4 early December and have been very happy with it. Its fairly cheap, and I can get it at places like home depot etc.
As far as NEEDING to amend it right out of the bag, I'm on the fence I did some plants in this mix:
60% Sunshine mix #4
25% perlite
15% worm castings
They did well, had no issues.
I've also ran plants in straight Sunshine right outta the bail into the pots, they did well I had no drainage problems although I would recommend adding more perlite to the mix.
As far as NEEDING to amend it right out of the bag, I'm on the fence I did some plants in this mix:
60% Sunshine mix #4
25% perlite
15% worm castings
They did well, had no issues.
I've also ran plants in straight Sunshine right outta the bail into the pots, they did well I had no drainage problems although I would recommend adding more perlite to the mix.
microgram
Member
obey, did you grow indoors or out? What kind of quality control did you have(Organic?Synthetic)? Did you adjust PH all the time? What method did you use to grow(synthetic-hydro, organic, hydro-organic)?
Most times people will have good luck without having to worry about having a very rotten batch, but sometimes, you're out of luck. Sunshine is pretty good with consistency, but with all massive businesses, there are times of doubt. Each circumstance varies, every possible factor comes into play, including geological location.
Most times people will have good luck without having to worry about having a very rotten batch, but sometimes, you're out of luck. Sunshine is pretty good with consistency, but with all massive businesses, there are times of doubt. Each circumstance varies, every possible factor comes into play, including geological location.
obey
Member
Hey man sorry it took me a day + to get back to this thread...
I use the sunshine mix inside totally synthetic using General Hydroponics Flora Micro/Bloom Lucas formula, I also add a bloom booster during flowering(trying BigBud/Koolbloom) Cal - Mag is added if needed usually to the tune of 1ml once or twice.
I am finding that if I adjust the ph of my nutrient solution to around 6.5-6.8 then water they do great. The Run off is usually around 5.5+/-. This plant is in its second week of flowering grown in straight Sunshine mix #4 no amendments.
I really like this stuff its easy to use and cheeeap.
