Basic Breeding

[ganesh]

Hi,

I don't nothing about breeding, just made some F2 last year. just to play around.
But i want to do some experiences, and need some advices.

I've read some good threads here in breeders forums (Inbreeding thread from Gipsy was very good), some DJ Short's articles, and start reading Marijuana Botany by Robert Clark.

Since english is to my native language, i've serious trouble on understanding some techical terms/language, so it makes it more difficult to understand basics of breeding.

I have some Ultimate Moonshine F2 from JLP, a very nice and beautiful indica, that i want to work a little, because i have just 4 seeds left.
If i get at least one male and one female, i'll make F3, and here is where i need your help/advices:

- What to do with F3 seeds?Cross them betwenn in order to get F4, selecting the best male and female (i can't work with a big population), or select one nice male from F3 and cross it back to the F2 mother plant?

Thanks in advance

 

[fjällhöga]

heja ganesh
4 seeds is a bit low .... , but if they are the last what you have of UM , its ok ...
Grow em and let all males alive as well as all fem´s ... let them do their thing ( open pollination) , this will insure as much diversity in gene´s as possible .

take about 20-30 f3´s and choose your fem´s and your males and cross em again to reach f4

hope that helps a bit ...

Fj

PS: visit the Hill Temple Collective (og bub´s ) helpdesk , there are some stickie´s about breeding

 

[ganesh]

Hi,

fjällhöga, thanks for the reply.Very useful, but i think i'll just use pollen from one male, from what i've been reading, different males = more diversity in genes. Right?

JLP told me to do F4, and it seems that most of Dj's new line are F5, so i'll do it.
When to stop?In the 5th generation, or i can go further?

All 4 seeds germmed, after 2 years ... not bad at all!

I'll be updating this thread as it goes.

If you have any advices, please post them.

Thanks in advance.

Last year's Ultimate Moonshine F2

 

[Guest]

wow.

just wow. that moonshine f2 looks just amazing.

as to selecting one male vs open polination, fjal has it. see what he is suggesting is that in a mix of 4 beans your best genetics might not be realized. however if you open polinate you will shake it up, giving yourself more diversity on the next run. then from THERE choose your best mom/male or whatever, since you just scrambled up the dna pool and will have more variety and potentially better parents.

 

[ganesh]

Hi,

Unfortunately ended with 3 males, so i can't do the F3 i wanted.
I'll pollenate an Amnesia99 female clone with his polen.

Selected the best one: nice branching, sweetest smell, most vigourous and a nice amount of trichomes in some leafs.

He is under HPS, together with an Amnesia 99 female clone.

Here is a low quality picture of him:

I can see some seeds forming, but i'll let them together one more week to make sure, she gets nicely pollinated.

The questions:
Since i dont have any UM female, i want the closest plant to UM, what should i do?

- Grow the seeds and backcross to the male (i kept a clone) ?
- Grow the seeds, make F2 and select the best UM phenotype ?
- Grow the seeds, make F2, select the best UM pheno and then backcross a nice female with the UM male?

Thanks in advance.

 

[southwind]

some info

some info

Greetings Ganesh

I am not an expert but have some formal education in Botany and experience in Horticulture I also have a family member who is advanced degree in Bio/Botany.

I will ask him also, but I have had this problem with a type of ornamental, it is an annual and DIOECIOUS like Cannabis[ males and females]

I took my males and crossed to a similar stock.

and then picked best children and BX to my males several times.

it worked okay, but never completely lost the new genes of course.

You have already crossed to Amnesia 99 yes?

So grow those seeds and pick your best UM phenotype female., and cross her to UM male.

[Now those seeds have more UM genes than AM99]

, grow those seeds,

now I will get more complex okay?

pick another Male and Female from those seeds most like UM and breed together. and then see you if you get close to what you want...

>>>>>>>and/or pick best female again and backcross to you UM male.

This will give you lots of UM genes but have not backcrossed too much yet, which is sometimes a problem as the more times you backcross the more chance of introgression happens and you might see more bad traits and recessive traits coming out.

##This is all dependant also on qualitative or quantitative gene recombination, in the the original UM####

 

[jaykush]

basic breeding......

pollinate desired female with desired male, grow seeds do it again. and again and again.

 

[ganesh]

Hi,

Thanks for the infos, southwind and jaykush.

southwind: Yes, i read that multiple backcross is not very good for breeding cannabis.
But i think one backcroos wouldn't hurt.

Since UM plants have nice blue hues, and knowing A99 very well, it will be easy to identify both phenotypes.
But, the blue color is recessive, right? Will it be hard to keep the blue color?

So i think i'll do this: grow these seeds (A99xUM), backcross the more UM phenotype to the original male, and cross this result between them and make F2,F3, etc, and stop when i get what i want.

Sounds correct?

Ultimate Moonshine

Amnesia 99

 

[redlevels]

today i pollinated lower buds on the weed, i did it like this, i added 10 drops of rain water to a spoon, then i added pollen into the water, then took this water w/ the pollen in it, and driped it on the buds to pollinate them.

Do you think this will work.

 

[The Budfather]

water destroys pollen!!!!!!!!! BAD ADVICE lol

 

[Fire]

Hi,

I don't nothing about breeding, just made some F2 last year. just to play around.
But i want to do some experiences, and need some advices.

I've read some good threads here in breeders forums (Inbreeding thread from Gipsy was very good), some DJ Short's articles, and start reading Marijuana Botany by Robert Clark.

Since english is to my native language, i've serious trouble on understanding some techical terms/language, so it makes it more difficult to understand basics of breeding.

I have some Ultimate Moonshine F2 from JLP, a very nice and beautiful indica, that i want to work a little, because i have just 4 seeds left.
If i get at least one male and one female, i'll make F3, and here is where i need your help/advices:

- What to do with F3 seeds?Cross them betwenn in order to get F4, selecting the best male and female (i can't work with a big population), or select one nice male from F3 and cross it back to the F2 mother plant?

Thanks in advance

"Marijuana Botany" by Robert Connell Clark

 

[deZerTomB]

hey ganesh, nice plants, that a99 looks like my cindy bubble.

Blue or purple isn't neccesarily recessive, I think it's just rare to find a purple dom plant.

 

[southwind]

ganesh i sent you a PM

Hi,

Thanks for the infos, southwind and jaykush.

southwind: Yes, i read that multiple backcross is not very good for breeding cannabis.
But i think one backcroos wouldn't hurt.

Since UM plants have nice blue hues, and knowing A99 very well, it will be easy to identify both phenotypes.
But, the blue color is recessive, right? Will it be hard to keep the blue color?

So i think i'll do this: grow these seeds (A99xUM), backcross the more UM phenotype to the original male, and cross this result between them and make F2,F3, etc, and stop when i get what i want.

Sounds correct?

Ultimate Moonshine

Amnesia 99

 

[Ganico]

That second diagram was the best I've seen on plant breeding so far anywhere

 

[Elevator Man]

I've been thinking for some time how useful it would be to adapt some of these graphical symbologies, and standardize them for use here. That chart from Marijuana Botany is one of my favourites also. In another chart on 'Hybrid Vigor', Clarke also uses some other great symbols to denote plant traits - a 'plant' with one leaf, one calyx, a stalk and primitive roots - sorry for the cheap photo, but my scanner's bust:

 

[redlevels]

water destroys pollen!!!!!!!!! BAD ADVICE lol

Is that right? So then my designated buds will not pollinate with the pollen filled water so I can get seeds?

I was thinking the water would dry and absorb into the buds, and being that it has pollen in the water, the pollen residue would be on the bud causing it to seed the weed.

 

[Elevator Man]

Art Class...

Art Class...

Do it like this...



3 weeks later - et voila! Forming seeds...

 

[Raco]

Nice shots Elevator Man!!
here are some DC flowers and pollen :smile:

 

[XyZ]

good pics amigos, let it breed

...here is some more DC powder

 

[ganesh]

Hi,

Thanks for the diagrams .. very usefull.
And nice looking polen.


southwind, i hope you dont mind if i quote your PM, since it is very informative, and it could be handy for other users:

you can backcross more than once here, since you have added new genetic material from THE A99

You see?

If you are only working with ONE type then bxing is worse faster , but with new material you have more times you can BX.

I do not know, I am sure NO ONE knows if BLUE IN THIS STRAIN is recessive.

You will know if it is masked right away in the A99 X UM,

But if you cross back to UM you will have more chances of getting blue, even if it is recessive.

if it were recessive it looks like this in punnet square:
little r

ULT MOON
female male
rr rr

If A99 has dominant and recessive genes
it will be

A99
female MALE
Rr Rr

when combined to UM

you will get some RR some Rr and some rr

this is very simplified but gives an idea.


southwind

If you want, i can edit and remove the above quote.

Thanks for posting everybody!