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Robrites
Thank you trichrider. Definitely worth watching.
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Balancing Soil Minerals
- Thread starter m_astera
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Thank you trichrider. Definitely worth watching.
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
Michael, I have small question regarding the Zn. I'm somewhat curious in regards to the toxicity Zn carries towards microorganisms. In both anaerobic and aerobic digesters I've seen a biological slow down @ 25-50-100 ppm respectively.
That said. How important is Zn within this discipline? I know you have it lower than the numbers I've seen and I've not tested at those levels (reasons I'll be calling some colleagues about)
It very well may be an acceptable trade off, and I'm ok with that. Thanks in advance, and great book so far sir. Bravo
That said. How important is Zn within this discipline? I know you have it lower than the numbers I've seen and I've not tested at those levels (reasons I'll be calling some colleagues about)
It very well may be an acceptable trade off, and I'm ok with that. Thanks in advance, and great book so far sir. Bravo
still out of stock on amazon, could you do something about that?
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
"The specific role of Zn in growth and development of plants is not known. This nutrient is an important component of various enzymes that are responsible for driving many metabolic reactions in all crops. Growth and development would stop if specific enzymes were not present in plant tissue."
Then I see this.
"Zinc deficiency creates shortened internodes"
http://www.extension.umn.edu/agricu...ment/micronutrients/zinc-for-crop-production/
Then I see this.
"Zinc deficiency creates shortened internodes"
http://www.extension.umn.edu/agricu...ment/micronutrients/zinc-for-crop-production/
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
There may or may not be some applications in regards to purposely managing Zn levels (quasi deficient) at certain stages. The ability to manage internodal spacing is intriguing. Specifically with Sativa dominant hybrids.
I cant wait to see the results of all the soils I sent. I gave up on my thread, but my work continues on the same path intended.
I cant wait to see the results of all the soils I sent. I gave up on my thread, but my work continues on the same path intended.
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50YardLine
Member
Bummer, was following that thread.
I am about to get all my tests back from logan labs soon. You guys post that stuff in this thread?
I am about to get all my tests back from logan labs soon. You guys post that stuff in this thread?
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
I won't get any of mine back until Mid December. I have 8 lots heading to my Alma Mater AG dept. We all have that friend that graduated, but never left. They're in his trunk atm
I'd really like to know Michaels opinion on the Zn I mentioned. I did have a good discussion with my buddy about it. He's going to talk with a few people and get back with me. According to him, getting Zn down to the levels like that is tough.
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TheyCallMeJJay
Member
Hey guys, just a heads up. Look at the leading University AG dept near you. Mine has some really cool test not available at Logan and the rest I looked at.
50YardLine
Member
I posted this in another thread, but maybe this would be better. Any help would be great. I am lost on why my numbers got so far off this season. My phosporus doubled, even though I didn't use much at all. Only when the NPK was around 15-1-1 type of stuff. Totally bummed about these numbers.
I been following along and been seeing some old friends here.
orechon is right in what he said about sulfates that Michael talks about in his handbook.
One other thing is have you noticed that soil test show PPM for sulfur not sulfates.
Plants can only uptake sulfates
There is a big difference between Sulfur (S) and Sulfates (SO4)2-.
Sulfates are easily displaced but great for leaving behind what ever the compound was.
Say Gypsum a calcium sulfate when use the sulfate (SO4)2-bonds with whatever cation is in excess leaving behind Ca.
So knowing that the sulfate will bond with whatever Cation is in excess will give the grower power to change his medium. Now say your calcium was high and your Mg. was low .
Now you would use Epsom salts.
Say that both calcium and Magnesium was to high you could use Potassium sulfate.
Heh heh heh but you need a soil test to know what you actually have in your mix.
Elemental Sulfur (S) can be some nasty crap.
It forms a strong acid, sulfuric acid, when it combines with soil moisture and this takes the pH down and takes out much soil life!
The point that I want to make is in the difference between the different forms of Sulfur.
Reppin talks about P
On another note P readily binds with Ca. and Fe. and it is the fungi that breaks these apart making both element available.
I opine that the fungus favorite food is soft rock phosphate it's like 23% P but only 3% of this is readily available.
So if your recycling your mix this P source keeps on giving.
I also got it in my pea melon that keeping you P ratios low at 8 % or under works best for the mycorrhizae.
I also like to add most of my P sources as spikes or layers or zones (buried treasures) in that it gives the roots (fungi) a choice.
It is this mixing P in high globally and or any liquid P sources that I opine screws things up.
So 0-3-0 SRP is one of the best P sources for organic gardening.
If you see a P deficiency and you know that you P is up to snuff chances are that you fungi has been harmed in some way.
I opine that it would be better to re inoculate with mycorrhizae fungi then to add more Phosphorus.
On trace minerals Iron and Manganese are twins/opposites and synergists as are Copper and Zinc.
All four are Cations.
Then there is also the relationship that Boron has with Calcium.
The saying that Calcium is the truck and Boron is the driver.
Notice it all is about balance.
Calcium transports many nutrients into the plant and within the plant, but it needs boron to keep it mobile.
In August of 2013 I had Longan labs do a soil test which I sent to Michael @ soil mineral.
The test showed that only my trace minerals were all on the low side.
In fact Michael said that I should be proud of my mix.
It was almost dead on.
I got all the trace stuff in sulfate form and Michael told me how much in weight of each to add.
He made it so simple!
I have made 4 runs with this batch and only now am seeing something amiss.
Little smears of yellow on a few leaves of a few plants so I'll take this as a sign that I am due for another test.
Thinking it is something to do with calcium.
I only use rain water and have not been adding any cal-mag to my teas so maybe it something to do with that.
Not anything that will stop me from harvesting another great run.
If a grower works on getting the base saturation ratios of calcium to magnesium ratio close,
Between both they should add up close to 80% of the base saturation ratios with Ca. 60-70% and Mg.@10-20%.
Crazy HUH?
Rats
orechon is right in what he said about sulfates that Michael talks about in his handbook.
One other thing is have you noticed that soil test show PPM for sulfur not sulfates.
Plants can only uptake sulfates
There is a big difference between Sulfur (S) and Sulfates (SO4)2-.
Sulfates are easily displaced but great for leaving behind what ever the compound was.
Say Gypsum a calcium sulfate when use the sulfate (SO4)2-bonds with whatever cation is in excess leaving behind Ca.
So knowing that the sulfate will bond with whatever Cation is in excess will give the grower power to change his medium. Now say your calcium was high and your Mg. was low .
Now you would use Epsom salts.
Say that both calcium and Magnesium was to high you could use Potassium sulfate.
Heh heh heh but you need a soil test to know what you actually have in your mix.
Elemental Sulfur (S) can be some nasty crap.
It forms a strong acid, sulfuric acid, when it combines with soil moisture and this takes the pH down and takes out much soil life!
The point that I want to make is in the difference between the different forms of Sulfur.
Reppin talks about P
On another note P readily binds with Ca. and Fe. and it is the fungi that breaks these apart making both element available.
I opine that the fungus favorite food is soft rock phosphate it's like 23% P but only 3% of this is readily available.
So if your recycling your mix this P source keeps on giving.
I also got it in my pea melon that keeping you P ratios low at 8 % or under works best for the mycorrhizae.
I also like to add most of my P sources as spikes or layers or zones (buried treasures) in that it gives the roots (fungi) a choice.
It is this mixing P in high globally and or any liquid P sources that I opine screws things up.
So 0-3-0 SRP is one of the best P sources for organic gardening.
If you see a P deficiency and you know that you P is up to snuff chances are that you fungi has been harmed in some way.
I opine that it would be better to re inoculate with mycorrhizae fungi then to add more Phosphorus.
On trace minerals Iron and Manganese are twins/opposites and synergists as are Copper and Zinc.
All four are Cations.
Then there is also the relationship that Boron has with Calcium.
The saying that Calcium is the truck and Boron is the driver.
Notice it all is about balance.
Calcium transports many nutrients into the plant and within the plant, but it needs boron to keep it mobile.
In August of 2013 I had Longan labs do a soil test which I sent to Michael @ soil mineral.
The test showed that only my trace minerals were all on the low side.
In fact Michael said that I should be proud of my mix.
It was almost dead on.
I got all the trace stuff in sulfate form and Michael told me how much in weight of each to add.
He made it so simple!
I have made 4 runs with this batch and only now am seeing something amiss.
Little smears of yellow on a few leaves of a few plants so I'll take this as a sign that I am due for another test.
Thinking it is something to do with calcium.
I only use rain water and have not been adding any cal-mag to my teas so maybe it something to do with that.
Not anything that will stop me from harvesting another great run.
If a grower works on getting the base saturation ratios of calcium to magnesium ratio close,
Between both they should add up close to 80% of the base saturation ratios with Ca. 60-70% and Mg.@10-20%.
Crazy HUH?
Rats
MJtheIndicator
Member
Interesting that its often used as an acaricide. The United States produced 32.5 million metric tons in 2010 and more sulfuric acid every year than any other inorganic industrial chemical. Those numbers reflect a principal use for the acid in the extraction of phosphate ores for the production of fertilizer i.e., sulfates. It would be fair to state soil bacteria can convert crystalline, elemental sulfur into soluble derivatives which can then be utilized by plants. If anyone has experience with Aqueous Sulfur Sols I would love to hear about it.
In days of old before antibiotics were found they used sulfur to treat many things.
I think of gonorrhea and how it got its name the "CLAP".
When the poor sucker with the clap pecker would swell up with puss they would take two pieces of wood and lay his pecker on one and take the other piece of wood and slam it down on his pecker (CLAP) and then sprinkled SULFUR on his pecker.
No shit!
Ratz
I know you all needed to know that!
Practicing my curmudgeoness.
I think of gonorrhea and how it got its name the "CLAP".
When the poor sucker with the clap pecker would swell up with puss they would take two pieces of wood and lay his pecker on one and take the other piece of wood and slam it down on his pecker (CLAP) and then sprinkled SULFUR on his pecker.
No shit!
Ratz
I know you all needed to know that!
Practicing my curmudgeoness.
I'll remember that story for christmas dinner this year. S makes really useful compounds as well. I beat a bout of shigella last week by eating a head of raw garlic/day for three days. I basically looked like I was on my deathbed, shitting blood every half hour with 103+ fever. The allicin and whatever else in the garlic put me straight in a few days, with noticeable reduction in symptoms after 6 hours of eating the first few cloves. What is this thread about? Did we scare Michael away? haha
Reppin I don't know that you need that much perlite. Maybe 35/35/20/10 peat/topsoil/perlite/compost , its just that much perlite is taking away from your battery. I'd only use a super aerated mix like that if I had 4-5 yards of soil per plant. Yes on the topsoil in the mix though, especially if its a good high cec one, it's more likely a better thing than just straight compost imo.
Yup...our buddy gary r is not pushy at all but he really hammers me about that exact point. He recommends 2/3 top soil and the other 1/3 divided equally between peat, perlite and either vermiculite or coco depending if your soil needs k or mg. Given the right numbers I would think compost or ewc would work also
You would be surprised what you can grow in a 200 gallon pot with decent weight/tcec
Having said that the coot amendments are great quality. I definitely try to fit in kelp, crab and basalt
You would be surprised what you can grow in a 200 gallon pot with decent weight/tcec
Having said that the coot amendments are great quality. I definitely try to fit in kelp, crab and basalt
Hi Repp!
While not being outside I have been using Agricola's 4-8-4 mostly to replenish my mix after a run. I been using it @ 1 TBLSP/gal.
I do add in other things but overall I think Agricola's one of the best all purpose total fertilizers.
I also think anything over 20% top soil/compost makes a mud pie.
I bet you will need every bit of 35% of that perlite.
I guess it all depends how light and loamy it is.
Then again you learn by doing and your doing much grander things then I.
What I am saying is you learn by your mistakes so how was your last mix?
You had to get to those numbers of yours some how?
Ratz
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