Are American and Canadian growers biased against Dutch breeders and seedbanks?

[Kupcha]

Mr Nice seed co = Neville (Australian) ShantiBaba (Australian) Howard (welsh) .

A lot of you seam to be missing the boat DUTCH breeders as you call them are not all dutch sure theirs a few in there ranks but most are pots people from all over the world.

This arguments stupid and if i had to pick one state in the us i would say has possibly the largest mj culture and in my eyes some of the finest cannabis or did that would not be cali it would be Hawaii and the big difference with Hawaiians to cali growers well a lot of cali growers are they the Hawaiians don't think there better than any other grower they love and respect the plant and other people that do also they are warm and giving willing to shear all they have maybe some of you elitist need to follow there example.

In the erly 80s when skunk was first being imported here yes we got lots of it different lots from more sativa type sk lines to more indica type skunks the Hawaiian genetics coming in made it look like swag.

There are also many other lines from with in the mainland of the us that a lot of you have never heard of or smoked that was very special from growers breeders from all over the us but just like the US and Australia and many other places had there own lines plus growing a lot of the same genetics columbine African Asian and so on.

Do you lot relies most of Europe were smoking hash up until say 10 or 20 years ago trying to get hold of good mj was a useless effort all you could get was hash ranging from shit to okay for the most part look at things now uk has a cannabis culture so does Spain and many more country be it an under ground one all thanks to the people from all over the world the used Amsterdam as a base i think you ow these people thanks.

Made me think... and I didn't mean to come off so hateful. My experience with self-proclaimed "Dutch" genetics hasn't been great is all. Wouldn't stop me from visiting Amsterdam in the future though. Definitely on the bucket list

 

[guest2012y]

I feel there's a certain pride out here on the West coast and in the PNW when it comes to certain things. We busted our ass out here,and a lot of people suffered under the sick archaic drug laws we were forced to endure (and still do). We were pushed in to tiny spaces and had to get real inventive to carry on with this relationship we have with this plant. Lots of history out here,lots of old timers that paved the way.
I myself at one point buried a gawd damned school bus to grow in to preserve my so called "freedom" in order to do what I felt as a human being on this planet I had the right to do.
A lot of the genetics were developed out here that ended up over there and likewise,but honestly it really doesn't matter anymore. We all grow the herb,and there are some fine breeds coming from both continents.
Like Mr. Greengenes said,the truth about these genetics is what's important,especially to future generations of growers and breeders.

For me there's no point in arguing about what's better and who grows better. We are all in the same boat,just have different jobs to do.
Pick one that works for you or the people that you share it with. Your family,friends,your business associates....those are the best strains. Oh,and of course it has to be good smoke...Sativa,Indica,a blend,whatever works,unless you are growing stuff that fails to pass the basic guidelines of growing decent smoke.
My 2 cents

 

[superbolan]

The desire for profit and gain transcends nationality if your going to blame the americans you may as well blame the romans etc

 

[elmanito]

If we go back further in the 1920-1930s there were good strains grown on Java (Indonesia), where you still can find relatives.

An addition

Cannabis indicae herba - The flowering and seed carrying buds, not separated from resin of the female plant cultivated in East Indies.

Namaste

 

[ReelBusy1]

No bias; everybody has basically the same amount of 'freedom' to grow out thousands of plants per generation, and they choose NOT TO do that, equally.

Each has the same amount of knowledge about plant breeding: Not enough to do it properly and effectively.

They each have the same burning desire for easy money.

No bias at all. They all are equally stupid, greedy and limited by cannabis prohibition laws.

I wish it were easy.

Breeding is hard work, time consuming and if I were only in it for the money I would just be selling weed (which I don't do) not an affordable line of quality seeds for medical patients like we do at MOTHER CHUCKERS.

 

[blinkisback]

I really dont care what place or country my genetics came from. We started out with pure land race genetics in the 70's everything we have now came from about the same 15 or 20 land races. I think we will keep finding new phenos every day. The only bullshit plants I ever grew came out of an old pink mix pack all hairs 90 days in flower still not finished. I look for resin content flavor and stone in my product. I grow michigan clone only strains dutch strains and west coast strains and I have stains from all three that produce my big 3. I do have American pride And I did fight in a bullshit war but I feel our people will outlast our corrupt government. 30 Years ago my dad started growing every crop was a risk now 30 years latter my wife an I are growing 96 plants worry free from any state prosecution. America is wakeing up and I think the next 5 years will see America as a power house in the strain genetics field.

Well said.

 

[blinkisback]

blinkisback i believe that pureknowledge probably doesnt want a no govt but a limited govt that the original consitution and bill of rights; which sadly has been subverted and seems most people really dont understand everything spelled out in it, provides and was ment to secure.

he and many others would move to country that didnt have a central bank and whos currency was backed by something with intrinsic value.

Ron Paul knows whats up and he could save america. hes for civil liberties and personal responsablity, meaning he would legalize all drugs and prostitution and citizens would be responsable for the decisions they make.

hes for non interventious foreign policy, meaning no bullying other countries or making allies, just protect our own borders and citizens

the biggest one, hes for auditing the federal reserve and a reform our monetary policy, meaning no more inflation!!!!

p.s. afganistan and iraq are about putting more people under control of a central bank. oil and opium trades are an added plus

You summed it up much better. The people in charge have gotten away from where it started. He should have been more clear.

 

[Growbrass]

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[Growbrass]

Reality is cannabis was not native to Canada or the US like most places in the world it was taken there imported in.

If you want to get technical, cannabis origins are central asian.


So in a discussion of America/Canada vs Europe, why would you even make that statement? I guess you should have said "Reality is cannabis was not native to Canada, US, Europe or most other places in the world"

 

[Rednick]

Baised to the Dutch?

Baised to the Dutch?

I love your:
seeds,
weed,
cheese,
milk,
beer,
art,
architecture,
and women.

Variety is the spice of life.

 

[Dalaihempy]

If you want to get technical, cannabis origins are central asian.


So in a discussion of America/Canada vs Europe, why would you even make that statement? I guess you should have said "Reality is cannabis was not native to Canada, US, Europe or most other places in the world"

Well they in fact also claim cannabis origins are Africa and all cannabis was once sativa but as the worlds plates separated forming continents and evaluation took over creating also indicas but i was not there or were you so who is right ?.

Since i logged into the online community all i see is cali does it better i am so tired and sick of people claiming there cannabis is better than other peoples cannabis or we do it better its like a dick swinging competition the evaluation of indoor growing and methods of growing has allowed people in all country's to grow any type of strain they like were before they were limited by there weather to what they could grow the genetics alone governs whether you have good cannabis or shit cannabis not the nationality the person growing it or the area it is grown in.

 

[Dalaihempy]

Made me think... and I didn't mean to come off so hateful. My experience with self-proclaimed "Dutch" genetics hasn't been great is all. Wouldn't stop me from visiting Amsterdam in the future though. Definitely on the bucket list

Mate there's people id like to met in the dam and many i would ignore and avoid my self but there is a history relating to the cannabis community that involves the dutch and lots of work were most of the modern genetic pool came from using genetics from all over the world from people from all over the world working there.

There are many strains i would not grow but there are many i would and a lot i have and love very much so lets just take 3 lines created in the dam kali mist a classic and a legend Mango Haze a legend also and lets not forget the widow 3 completely different lines not related and could stand next to the best old school genetics and any of the so called elite lines that i would bet 99.9% are from dutch breed lines any way.

 

[Hip Cat]

Let's look at the facts. Breeders in Amsterdam were able to work in a more open society without fear of arrest. Breeders in the US have to work underground. Breeders in Amsterdam acquired landrace strains from the US and around the world. Skunk#1, Afghani, Haze, NL, Bubblegum and the list goes on. What good strains are left from that pool? A few good Hazes? They acquired the best genetics in the world and bred them to the point of boring, blandness. Breeding for all the wrong traits. Sweetness in Skunk#1 instead of the RKS, red hairs and heavy yielding strains were traits that Dutch breeders looked for. With quality taking a back seat. What else can you expect from people who mix their weed with tobacco because the weed is too strong! LOL

 

[Farang]

Are American and Canadian growers biased against Dutch breeders and seedbanks?

Hi all well in short i find some Cali growers / kids are and they think they are gods gift to the cannabis community.

Reality is cannabis was not native to Canada or the US like most places in the world it was taken there imported in.

The Dutch growers breeders as so many in this community call them are American Australians and Canadians and people from many other parts of the world they used Amsterdam as a base to grow and breed you think if they had a choice and they would not of done it in the home lands were they have better out door growing conditions if they could of.

I have a lot of respect for the old Cali growers not so much for the new ones that feel the rest of the world of growers are beneath them or we ow them something reality is haze and many other lines were breed worked on in Europe sure haze was not created there but it was worked and real breeding done on it there also the spreed of many genetics was also done to all parts of the world from there before people like Neville showed up and started the seed sales where were we getting ow seeds from lets be honest here yes from bags of cannabis imported in or from friends that had traveled to places and collected seed.

You can throw shit at the dutch all you like but the ones you call the dutch were from all parts of the world you don't understand how lucky you younger growers are or how good you have it today and its all because of the pioneers that set up camp in Amsterdam you call the dutch.

 

[headband 707]

I think ppl are missing the mark about commercail grows

I think ppl are missing the mark about commercail grows

Has anyone been in a greenhouse that grows for comercial use? lol lol not exactly what I call user friendly lol. Thats number one and lets not forget it's grown for bulk not potency..
Second the seed and where it comes from the seed comes from all over the world there is no one spot the seed comes from lol .. It didn't start in one spot and spread .. The seed is diverse as the plant itself and if you look back in your history you will find this out lol peace out Headband707

 

[englishrick]

hybrids,,lol,,,no1 knows how to maintain this hybrid game,,,,as time gows by its all turning to sh1t in holland,,,,no1 relizes these hybrids have a lifespan,,,no1 has figured out an equilibreum,,,,,indoor growing and breeding is still un-refined...not many people in the world know how to play this game propperly

in the 1970`s holland was the only spot in the world where people could work with cannabis,,,so no wonder the first hybrid`s came from holland,,,,but it was nothin to do with the dutch,,,,the dutch were smokin landrace untill sam droped the hybrid bomb

maintining "pure lines" is the way forward,,,,,segrigation should not be feared it should be embraced

 

[indifferent]

The Dutch hybrids were all great until the 1998 law change made em move indoors and underground, breeding and selecting indoors under HPS is not the way to do things, you need to work outdoors, and from the early 80 to 98, that is what they did.

Since 98, a large part of the decline has been down to the Dutch police - they are too good at busting grows, so countless mother plants and breeding males were lost, meaning they had to start again from seed, and they can't grow large numbers for selection like they used to do as it's all done in small indoor rooms. This is why the lines like Kali Mist have changed and aren't what they once were. Contrast that with the MrNice strains, Shanti left Holland right after the 98 law change and carried on maintaining his hybrids the correct way - under glass with large populations.

Also, selecting under HPS means the plants that perform best are not the ones that put most energy into producing psychoactive components, it's the ones that put most energy into growing, and the Dutch have selected for vigour, size, yield, finish time, all to the detriment of quality. Look at Cali Orange, it was great back in the 90s, a very potent Afghani that reeked of oranges, today it's bunk, low potency, low taste, generic skunky crap.

 

[englishrick]

ahhh man,,,i missed out on Cali`O,,,,ive never seen a good specimine,,,,best ive ever had was a sunshine orange from Barneys in 01, an that could have been better

 

[headband 707]

They did take the dank out of the bud

They did take the dank out of the bud

The Dutch hybrids were all great until the 1998 law change made em move indoors and underground, breeding and selecting indoors under HPS is not the way to do things, you need to work outdoors, and from the early 80 to 98, that is what they did.

Since 98, a large part of the decline has been down to the Dutch police - they are too good at busting grows, so countless mother plants and breeding males were lost, meaning they had to start again from seed, and they can't grow large numbers for selection like they used to do as it's all done in small indoor rooms. This is why the lines like Kali Mist have changed and aren't what they once were. Contrast that with the MrNice strains, Shanti left Holland right after the 98 law change and carried on maintaining his hybrids the correct way - under glass with large populations.

Also, selecting under HPS means the plants that perform best are not the ones that put most energy into producing psychoactive components, it's the ones that put most energy into growing, and the Dutch have selected for vigour, size, yield, finish time, all to the detriment of quality. Look at Cali Orange, it was great back in the 90s, a very potent Afghani that reeked of oranges, today it's bunk, low potency, low taste, generic skunky crap.

I couldn't agree more about them taking the dank out of bud lol.. Somthing is very wrong here lol.. Ppl are starting to tell me it's in the nutes and I'm starting to wonder ?? I really miss my clone only strains as I'm not finding what I'm looking for in seeds.. Where is the road kill skunk or that one toke wonder? Why can't we find the really great old strains that used to float around ? Why is there so much bullshit hype and no real truth lol.. Hum I wonder lol..I guess one mans just thinks the bud is great the other thinks its so so. These are the facts about bud..Had some really great bud here and damn did it reek. No one wanted to grow it because of that very reason... Which is a real shame as it was the best... lol .. peace out Headband707

 

[ecxtky]

I have bought from a seedbank overseas, and so far so good. However, the dutch just use different methods and different stuff all around to grow. So of course their plants will always be different, plus the big change in temperatures is what makes plants change colors. You see some dutch grower in Dam with some danky looking monster with purple sticking from every bud. Then you buy the genetics and grow and your stuff is nowhere close to it's dutch counterpart.
Ultimately we must remember that a lot of the dam genetics are from the states. Most not all have been developed in cali and other states.
We know bubba was created somewhere in the east coast. Skunk came from cali, and so did most of the kush strains that the dutch carry.
Our canadian counterpart have their own methods and strains they like to develop.
We are all different and its not about being biased, is about variety. The dutch are getting stuck on one flavor, while the rest of the world wants something new.
Genetics will always get washed down, because of mistakes we make as growers. We weaken the plant and its offspring will be weak too. But you can slowly nurture good genetics back to potency.
It takes work and trial and error, but you can do it.
Landraces are the way to go. Because is worlwide variety of genetics, genetics that can lead to new strong medicinal strains or the revival of old genetics. Like panama red and Acapulco gold.
Did you guys know that central american sativas are stronger than mexican sativas?
Tikal baby, strong and mind bending when nurtured well.
Either way, I would prefer to get my genetics from an american breeder, since then I dont have to wait two weeks while shitting bricks thinking customs got my shit.