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Aqua 12 site ebb and flow system
- Thread starter Ganjagrower1
- Start date
DunHav`nFun
Well-known member
Many ways to skin a mule guys....The answer to roots growin down feed and drain holes in ebb and flow bucket setups was determined long ago when we denounced the manufactured versions that were built to fail and cause imminent crop failure due to roots clogging drains and rootrot killing all the plants....so...
I built my DIY setup with all the bottom 5 gal buckets drain/feedholes with ebb and flow overflow screens on the insides , and as Dollar said earlier he feeds 4 times a day for 15 mins like the bullshit controller bucket allows with it`s cheapass analog timer strapped to it....the other weak link in the chain...
My flip rooms side by side had 36 buckets in each with 35 plants and the last bucket had a float switch mounted at max flood level to kill feed and start the drain process....but...
I used feed AND drain pumps that blasted juice to the buckets 3 times a day lights on during bloom , and sucked it out as fast as possible to pull as much O2 down thru the lavarock medium for max rootmass building till end of stretch while training the bottom bucket rootmass away from the plumbing.......
Slow feed in ebb and flow is an accident waiting to happen and always has been , or you wouldn`t have to buy those copper discs to divert root growth chemically as in how the discs react to your nutrient solution , but it`s just the old head knowledge has fallen thru the cracks over the yrs with all old sites dead and gone...so....
Just tryin to help....As you`ve shown Dollar , ebb and flow buckets work as long as the bullshit timers don`t stick and drain the rez out onto the floor as I`ve seen more times than I care to remember , OR the roots grow down the feed/drain holes from over veg and choke out the plants for total crop loss from root rot.....and ...
Just because plants handle higher ec levels than most experienced growers here suggest , doesn`t mean that they need it and that it`s increasing foliage and budsite growth....it only means they`re tolerating it due to the more indica dominant hybrids being grown these days due to seedbank hype , but.....
As far as the increased juice levels used , I assure all here yields are not increased ,but rather due to lower ec level grows that get rid of excess nutrient storage easier later in life toward end of cycle as they cannibalize their nutrient stores in the larger fan leaves do best IME.....regardless....
Remember 1 solid rule of thumb with recirculating fast hydro setups....Start your rez tanks in the low-mid 5`s and let the ph rise gradually to the low 6`s before swappin out rez juice cuz in a "dialed" setup , as the plants eat and assimilate their feed.....
Ec/ppms will drop gradually as well as ph will rise gradually that`s very conducive to the plants ability to only use certain macro and micro`s at different ph levels I just noted....and yeah....
There`s folks that never swap out their rez`s and only add back , but guaranteed at some point shit`s gonna go sideways and haveta be dealt with....anyways....
My 2 cents from all those yrs....Good luck and....
Peace....DHF....
....
I built my DIY setup with all the bottom 5 gal buckets drain/feedholes with ebb and flow overflow screens on the insides , and as Dollar said earlier he feeds 4 times a day for 15 mins like the bullshit controller bucket allows with it`s cheapass analog timer strapped to it....the other weak link in the chain...
My flip rooms side by side had 36 buckets in each with 35 plants and the last bucket had a float switch mounted at max flood level to kill feed and start the drain process....but...
I used feed AND drain pumps that blasted juice to the buckets 3 times a day lights on during bloom , and sucked it out as fast as possible to pull as much O2 down thru the lavarock medium for max rootmass building till end of stretch while training the bottom bucket rootmass away from the plumbing.......
Slow feed in ebb and flow is an accident waiting to happen and always has been , or you wouldn`t have to buy those copper discs to divert root growth chemically as in how the discs react to your nutrient solution , but it`s just the old head knowledge has fallen thru the cracks over the yrs with all old sites dead and gone...so....
Just tryin to help....As you`ve shown Dollar , ebb and flow buckets work as long as the bullshit timers don`t stick and drain the rez out onto the floor as I`ve seen more times than I care to remember , OR the roots grow down the feed/drain holes from over veg and choke out the plants for total crop loss from root rot.....and ...
Just because plants handle higher ec levels than most experienced growers here suggest , doesn`t mean that they need it and that it`s increasing foliage and budsite growth....it only means they`re tolerating it due to the more indica dominant hybrids being grown these days due to seedbank hype , but.....
As far as the increased juice levels used , I assure all here yields are not increased ,but rather due to lower ec level grows that get rid of excess nutrient storage easier later in life toward end of cycle as they cannibalize their nutrient stores in the larger fan leaves do best IME.....regardless....
Remember 1 solid rule of thumb with recirculating fast hydro setups....Start your rez tanks in the low-mid 5`s and let the ph rise gradually to the low 6`s before swappin out rez juice cuz in a "dialed" setup , as the plants eat and assimilate their feed.....
Ec/ppms will drop gradually as well as ph will rise gradually that`s very conducive to the plants ability to only use certain macro and micro`s at different ph levels I just noted....and yeah....
There`s folks that never swap out their rez`s and only add back , but guaranteed at some point shit`s gonna go sideways and haveta be dealt with....anyways....
My 2 cents from all those yrs....Good luck and....
Peace....DHF....
....
Dollar
Active member
Many ways to skin a mule guys....The answer to roots growin down feed and drain holes in ebb and flow bucket setups was determined long ago when we denounced the manufactured versions that were built to fail and cause imminent crop failure due to roots clogging drains and rootrot killing all the plants....so...
I built my DIY setup with all the bottom 5 gal buckets drain/feedholes with ebb and flow overflow screens on the insides , and as Dollar said earlier he feeds 4 times a day for 15 mins like the bullshit controller bucket allows with it`s cheapass analog timer strapped to it....the other weak link in the chain...
My flip rooms side by side had 36 buckets in each with 35 plants and the last bucket had a float switch mounted at max flood level to kill feed and start the drain process....but...
I used feed AND drain pumps that blasted juice to the buckets 3 times a day lights on during bloom , and sucked it out as fast as possible to pull as much O2 down thru the lavarock medium for max rootmass building till end of stretch while training the bottom bucket rootmass away from the plumbing.......
Slow feed in ebb and flow is an accident waiting to happen and always has been , or you wouldn`t have to buy those copper discs to divert root growth chemically as in how the discs react to your nutrient solution , but it`s just the old head knowledge has fallen thru the cracks over the yrs with all old sites dead and gone...so....
Just tryin to help....As you`ve shown Dollar , ebb and flow buckets work as long as the bullshit timers don`t stick and drain the rez out onto the floor as I`ve seen more times than I care to remember , OR the roots grow down the feed/drain holes from over veg and choke out the plants for total crop loss from root rot.....and ...
Just because plants handle higher ec levels than most experienced growers here suggest , doesn`t mean that they need it and that it`s increasing foliage and budsite growth....it only means they`re tolerating it due to the more indica dominant hybrids being grown these days due to seedbank hype , but.....
As far as the increased juice levels used , I assure all here yields are not increased ,but rather due to lower ec level grows that get rid of excess nutrient storage easier later in life toward end of cycle as they cannibalize their nutrient stores in the larger fan leaves do best IME.....regardless....
Remember 1 solid rule of thumb with recirculating fast hydro setups....Start your rez tanks in the low-mid 5`s and let the ph rise gradually to the low 6`s before swappin out rez juice cuz in a "dialed" setup , as the plants eat and assimilate their feed.....
Ec/ppms will drop gradually as well as ph will rise gradually that`s very conducive to the plants ability to only use certain macro and micro`s at different ph levels I just noted....and yeah....
There`s folks that never swap out their rez`s and only add back , but guaranteed at some point shit`s gonna go sideways and haveta be dealt with....anyways....
My 2 cents from all those yrs....Good luck and....
Peace....DHF....
Well said DHF!! I wish I could be as detailed and explain things the way you do. I think I remember you from the old old Krusty threads way back when many years ago. Back then your handle was Dead Head Fred? Right?
Many ways to skin a mule guys....The answer to roots growin down feed and drain holes in ebb and flow bucket setups was determined long ago when we denounced the manufactured versions that were built to fail and cause imminent crop failure due to roots clogging drains and rootrot killing all the plants....so...
I built my DIY setup with all the bottom 5 gal buckets drain/feedholes with ebb and flow overflow screens on the insides , and as Dollar said earlier he feeds 4 times a day for 15 mins like the bullshit controller bucket allows with it`s cheapass analog timer strapped to it....the other weak link in the chain...
My flip rooms side by side had 36 buckets in each with 35 plants and the last bucket had a float switch mounted at max flood level to kill feed and start the drain process....but...
I used feed AND drain pumps that blasted juice to the buckets 3 times a day lights on during bloom , and sucked it out as fast as possible to pull as much O2 down thru the lavarock medium for max rootmass building till end of stretch while training the bottom bucket rootmass away from the plumbing.......
Slow feed in ebb and flow is an accident waiting to happen and always has been , or you wouldn`t have to buy those copper discs to divert root growth chemically as in how the discs react to your nutrient solution , but it`s just the old head knowledge has fallen thru the cracks over the yrs with all old sites dead and gone...so....
Just tryin to help....As you`ve shown Dollar , ebb and flow buckets work as long as the bullshit timers don`t stick and drain the rez out onto the floor as I`ve seen more times than I care to remember , OR the roots grow down the feed/drain holes from over veg and choke out the plants for total crop loss from root rot.....and ...
Just because plants handle higher ec levels than most experienced growers here suggest , doesn`t mean that they need it and that it`s increasing foliage and budsite growth....it only means they`re tolerating it due to the more indica dominant hybrids being grown these days due to seedbank hype , but.....
As far as the increased juice levels used , I assure all here yields are not increased ,but rather due to lower ec level grows that get rid of excess nutrient storage easier later in life toward end of cycle as they cannibalize their nutrient stores in the larger fan leaves do best IME.....regardless....
Remember 1 solid rule of thumb with recirculating fast hydro setups....Start your rez tanks in the low-mid 5`s and let the ph rise gradually to the low 6`s before swappin out rez juice cuz in a "dialed" setup , as the plants eat and assimilate their feed.....
Ec/ppms will drop gradually as well as ph will rise gradually that`s very conducive to the plants ability to only use certain macro and micro`s at different ph levels I just noted....and yeah....
There`s folks that never swap out their rez`s and only add back , but guaranteed at some point shit`s gonna go sideways and haveta be dealt with....anyways....
My 2 cents from all those yrs....Good luck and....
Peace....DHF....
Thanks for all the input. DHP
All I know about the ebb and flow system is all I have read. I did research via internet but you don't get the answers your looking for. Unless someone has already gone through it like you guys.
I had no idea I would have root issues coming out the bottom and clogging the drain lines. Never crossed my mind. Like I said this is my first time with this system. I hope to not have any issues like the things you speak of with flooding the room. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope it works good.
Is it not a good idea to do a res change out. I am using canna nutrients and I started with a first week of growth. So now I need to drop the ec. So I can add cannzym. For the roots.
Right now I feed every 6 hours and I let flood for about 15 minutes each time.
Question what is your thought on co2 while you are in veg is there any difference to using and not using. I know I use it during flower just never tried it in veg.
Ok got another question.
What is the length of time I should veg. In this type of system. I know it all depends on heighth as well. I do have 8 ft so I shouldn't have an issue. They are maybe close to a foot tall now. At some point I want to be able to take clones off and start my new round. Maybe even off sell some to recoop some money back.
What is the length of time I should veg. In this type of system. I know it all depends on heighth as well. I do have 8 ft so I shouldn't have an issue. They are maybe close to a foot tall now. At some point I want to be able to take clones off and start my new round. Maybe even off sell some to recoop some money back.
DunHav`nFun
Well-known member
Never used Co2 supplements in my life due to utilizing air exchange twice per minute using the inherent CO2 in the air we breathe....but....
If you run sealed rooms CO2 is mandatory for plant survival since plants eat CO2 and shit Oxygen , and humans eat oxygen and shit CO2....go figure...anyways....
750-900 ppms CO2 during lights on from beginning of life till end of cycle is more than sufficient for C3 or C4 class plants that pot`s categorized under whichever the scientists choose this week or next , lol....but again....
During lights out , the plants shit out excess humidity AND CO2 that wasn`t used during lights on , so never supplement gas during lights out sequences...now....veg times....well bro....
Here`s the best tip you`ll most likely ever get that`s so simple you`ll kick yourself when you watch how well it works....
I never used aero or bubble cloners but learned to root in solo cups with 50/50 vermiculite and perlite and once fully rooted under low light 40 watt shop lites. , they went under 8 bulb T5 fixtures with the light right down on top of em to stack nodes and build laterals while keeping internode elongation to a bare minimum....now...
IMHO , your plants were waaaay too small to go into such larger containers with buncha medium and go under the big light....and...with all that medium and being fed as many times as you`ve noted , the rootmass really hasn`t had sufficient wet/dry periods between feeds to stimulate root building as well as foliage and budsite/node building....that said....
I usedta fully root cuts in 2-2 1/2 weeks , and pre-veg another 2 1/2 weeks under T-5`s , then into the flip rooms 12/12 and immediately begin stretch that`s 40% of the flower cycle...
Ended up from 12-14" Chem D cuts with 6 sets of laterals , to 3 footers with triple that amount or close to it without being topped due to the stacking they did under the T-5`s from the get....so...
How long to veg is directly related to how much the plant will stretch once flipped 12/12 to find out how deep the light can penetrate beneath the canopy surface and produce lower nugs instead of leafy larfy popcorn bullshit....and lastly....yeah Dollar....
I was another nick nobody ever knew long before the Krusty wars when I became DedHedFred , and I`ve only been that and DHF online till I retired several yrs back , but this is my last nick since retirement due to security issues.....so....
I`m retired and DunHav`nFun but don`t post much anymore except when I see the need....anyways....Good luck and holler if I can help....
Peace....DHF.....
......
Never used Co2 supplements in my life due to utilizing air exchange twice per minute using the inherent CO2 in the air we breathe....but....
If you run sealed rooms CO2 is mandatory for plant survival since plants eat CO2 and shit Oxygen , and humans eat oxygen and shit CO2....go figure...anyways....
750-900 ppms CO2 during lights on from beginning of life till end of cycle is more than sufficient for C3 or C4 class plants that pot`s categorized under whichever the scientists choose this week or next , lol....but again....
During lights out , the plants shit out excess humidity AND CO2 that wasn`t used during lights on , so never supplement gas during lights out sequences...now....veg times....well bro....
Here`s the best tip you`ll most likely ever get that`s so simple you`ll kick yourself when you watch how well it works....
I never used aero or bubble cloners but learned to root in solo cups with 50/50 vermiculite and perlite and once fully rooted under low light 40 watt shop lites. , they went under 8 bulb T5 fixtures with the light right down on top of em to stack nodes and build laterals while keeping internode elongation to a bare minimum....now...
IMHO , your plants were waaaay too small to go into such larger containers with buncha medium and go under the big light....and...with all that medium and being fed as many times as you`ve noted , the rootmass really hasn`t had sufficient wet/dry periods between feeds to stimulate root building as well as foliage and budsite/node building....that said....
I usedta fully root cuts in 2-2 1/2 weeks , and pre-veg another 2 1/2 weeks under T-5`s , then into the flip rooms 12/12 and immediately begin stretch that`s 40% of the flower cycle...
Ended up from 12-14" Chem D cuts with 6 sets of laterals , to 3 footers with triple that amount or close to it without being topped due to the stacking they did under the T-5`s from the get....so...
How long to veg is directly related to how much the plant will stretch once flipped 12/12 to find out how deep the light can penetrate beneath the canopy surface and produce lower nugs instead of leafy larfy popcorn bullshit....and lastly....yeah Dollar....
I was another nick nobody ever knew long before the Krusty wars when I became DedHedFred , and I`ve only been that and DHF online till I retired several yrs back , but this is my last nick since retirement due to security issues.....so....
I`m retired and DunHav`nFun but don`t post much anymore except when I see the need....anyways....Good luck and holler if I can help....
Peace....DHF.....
thanks for the info.
much help i can use ever little bit.
Weekend was pretty full with Easter and all I didn't have time to do a water change.
I topped the fire og. They had a little stretch to them so I want to keep them all the same size. They are all starting to really bush up now. I think I may go another week before I flip to flower.
I topped the fire og. They had a little stretch to them so I want to keep them all the same size. They are all starting to really bush up now. I think I may go another week before I flip to flower.
Ok here is day 12 of veg. I had to order my bloom nutrients online because they can't seem to ever stock the place I go to where I am at. The joke the is what can't they sell me today. Lol.
So hopefully they have what I need in stock and they is no back order. I added some fresh water back today. Just did 5 gallons. As soon as the bloom nutrients arrive I will be flipping to flower. I think a good 2 weeks of veg is good.
What are you guys thoughts just from what you can see from the picture.
So hopefully they have what I need in stock and they is no back order. I added some fresh water back today. Just did 5 gallons. As soon as the bloom nutrients arrive I will be flipping to flower. I think a good 2 weeks of veg is good.
What are you guys thoughts just from what you can see from the picture.
Attachments
DunHav`nFun
Well-known member
How long to veg can only be determined by running the plants at 2 weeks veg and see where they end up after stretch in relation to the distance from the light source they`ll need to be at for optimal performance till end of cycle....IOW....
Gotta run em to see how long to veg em next run , and the run after till you dial the strain in and squeeze every gram you can out of em....that is if they`re worth keeping....anyways....
Pull the trigger at 2 weeks and hang on....plants look ok , stretch will be 40% of the strain`s flower cycle , so with 10 week strains , stretch will be 4 weeks , and less for 9 week strains....anyways....
Keep us updated so....Good luck and.....
Peace.....DHF.........
Gotta run em to see how long to veg em next run , and the run after till you dial the strain in and squeeze every gram you can out of em....that is if they`re worth keeping....anyways....
Pull the trigger at 2 weeks and hang on....plants look ok , stretch will be 40% of the strain`s flower cycle , so with 10 week strains , stretch will be 4 weeks , and less for 9 week strains....anyways....
Keep us updated so....Good luck and.....
Peace.....DHF....
.....
How long to veg can only be determined by running the plants at 2 weeks veg and see where they end up after stretch in relation to the distance from the light source they`ll need to be at for optimal performance till end of cycle....IOW....
Gotta run em to see how long to veg em next run , and the run after till you dial the strain in and squeeze every gram you can out of em....that is if they`re worth keeping....anyways....
Pull the trigger at 2 weeks and hang on....plants look ok , stretch will be 40% of the strain`s flower cycle , so with 10 week strains , stretch will be 4 weeks , and less for 9 week strains....anyways....
Keep us updated so....Good luck and.....
Peace.....DHF....
The end of the week will be 2 weeks of veg. I don't know how much more vegging I want to do after that. I only have 8 ft ceilings so I have height restraints. Lol.
Yep, heat could be a factor. Do you spray anything preventative for bugs or pm?
How did the roots look when you transplanted? They look like they're really taking off since the transplant but that could just be from the constant adsorbtion. If the roots aren't really stretching, your plant may be sensitive.
How did the roots look when you transplanted? They look like they're really taking off since the transplant but that could just be from the constant adsorbtion. If the roots aren't really stretching, your plant may be sensitive.
DunHav`nFun
Well-known member
Leaves "taco`ing" is directly caused by lack of RH and it needs to be at least 70% till end of stretch.....and yeah.....
Heat can cause it but if the humidity is ample the plants will explode with the light and heat.....
Peace....DHF...
....
I think the rh is at like 40 to 50Leaves "taco`ing" is directly caused by lack of RH and it needs to be at least 70% till end of stretch.....and yeah.....
Heat can cause it but if the humidity is ample the plants will explode with the light and heat.....
Peace....DHF...
well, i hopped in just in time. They look like they're going to fill up the space pretty good.
Welcome paper thorn. You and me both are waiting for the show. I hate the waiting game. Obviously the first week or 2 not much goes on. I will post updated photos everyday.
