Anyone Notice That Fruit and Vegetables Have almost No Flavor Anymore?

[high life 45]

I converted my mom to og fruits after she noticed the difference. yeah you need local and organic, from a company like otco or ccof.

USDA organic is a joke and they have the LOWEST standard for certification. With usda, unless it says 100% og, its not 100%. I laugh when I see "organic" produce wrapped up in a bunch of plastic. Sometimes its the only option, but I like to get my berries from my yard or off the farmers truck in boxes and flats. Freeze em for later..

IME Your not going to find good produce in any of the major chains. Food grown for chains is never picked ripe, if it was it would be mush by the time it made it to the shelf.

CSA's are the way to go if you cant grow your own.

 

[jayjayfrank]

you could always EAT WHATS IN SEASON... you know, like everybody did before global shipping, 50 years ago...

 

[Harry Gypsna]

It's quite simple really. The big buyers, namely supermarkets, want fruit that is uniform, apples all the same size, colour, shape etc. Meanwhile the farmers want big yields, so high yielding uniform fruit has been bred, , with flavour going out of the window. Most toms bought in the UK are hydroponically grown, and they are usually the same 4 or 5 varieties within each type of tom (cherry/plum/beef etc), which are fast, good yielders, and produce uniform fruit, they are also watery as fuck.
All hail the mighty sungold tomato. I guarantee that a hydroponic sungold will piss all over a conventional or organic sorrento/sonata every day of the week.

 

[pinkus]

Just like weed, high yielding and good looking does not usually translate to more better product

 

[Neuromancer]

A lot of the lack of flavor is certainly due to mass production and transportation but as we age our senses fade somewhat. Your sense of smell and taste will never be as keen as they were as a child.

 

[Wayzer]

you could always EAT WHATS IN SEASON... you know, like everybody did before global shipping, 50 years ago...

This is also a HUGE deal!
people expect to be able to eat the best quality fruit and veg all year round.... this is just not possible. organic or not, u will not get the "optimal" flavors outta ur produce when it isnt vine ripened or travels hundreds of km. for example, i live in eastern canada, i want to eat figs in january.... should i expect to get really amazing figs? on the other hand persimmons (vanilla) were in season (from mexico) , and if u knew where to get them, u could enjoy some really delicious ones. Diversity in your diet can help you in these situations.

 

[Weird]

Funny...

The blackberries and strawberries in my fridge ARE certified organic....

ZERO FLAVOR....

So what does that say about your guys' organic theory?

you can effect flavonoids synthetically or organically and that is why I used the words LOCAL organic

the commercial farmers here all use the same cultivars and techniques and organics are being used in big agriculture with the same cultivars to either lower production cost or to increase value because of the perceived value of organic said organic method

the small local farmers here get top dollar from both restaurants and for year round fulfillment to those who desire quality organics foods

the organic methods of these farms are far more comprehensive and there are not just the differences in organic cultivation but in the cultivar as well

this differences really equates to a true difference in quality and this value

 

[Harry Gypsna]

Organic or not has nothing to do with the flavour...it is the variety. When growing organically, the bacteria in your soil break down organic matter, into the exact same minerals/chemicals that are contained in a conventional/hydro nutrient. Nitrogen is Nitrogen, and the plants don't give a shit if it came from comfrey or a bottle.

 

[krunchbubble]

Took the last hour to find a LOCAL, organic produce delivery. Pretty sure I found A really good one, from the reviews on Yelp...

Let you guys know in a couple days what the difference is!!!

you can effect flavonoids synthetically or organically and that is why I used the words LOCAL organic

the commercial farmers here all use the same cultivars and techniques and organics are being used in big agriculture with the same cultivars to either lower production cost or to increase value because of the perceived value of organic said organic method

the small local farmers here get top dollar from both restaurants and for year round fulfillment to those who desire quality organics foods

the organic methods of these farms are far more comprehensive and there are not just the differences in organic cultivation but in the cultivar as well

this differences really equates to a true difference in quality and this value

 

[supermanlives]

get out of city lol... out in the boonies its all good....farmers market otherwise

 

[milkyjoe]

There is a huge difference between organic and minerally dense

http://bionutrient.org/audio/2013_s...7-Biodynamic-Quality-Assurance-Hugh-Lovel.pdf

I do not give one fuck if a plant is organic or not. I care a whole lot if it has plenty of minerals in it.

 

[Ziggaro]

Pretty much everything you eat this time of year was picked immature and shipped in ethylene gas to ripen it enough to sell.
I think that has more to do with it than being a couple of days old.
In season, local organic produce, like the stuff in my backyard, is the most reliable source of goodness.

 

[Tudo]

Please read the book

Tomatoland

by Barry Estabrook


It details the conditions tomatoes are grown in in sw florida where most of the tomatoes come from in the winter time.

You will have a different view of the mob that runs things.

 

[OrganicBuds]

I agree with everybody that it doesn't really matter if it's organic or synthetic it's, however fuck petroleum by products.

 

[ronbo51]

I did market gardening for a few years. All the growers at the farmers markets would identify the variety of green bean in the bin by name: Provider, Jade Cross, Strike, Maxibel. I always grew several varieties and would discuss flavor profiles with customers who were just waking up to the idea that each variety was truly different, and not just a green bean. The best was when the melons came in. I did not live in melon growing country but we all grew them. If you picked the right maturity dates when you ordered seeds, started indoors, used reemay floating row covers, you could grow some respectable fruit. We would cut pieces up and give to customers, and between vendors, and you could not possibly understand the intensity of flavor in a well grown, picked at maturity, non commercial, bred for flavor melon, and you will never, ever get that at a store because it has a one or two day shelf life. All vegetables and fruit are like that. Seed and fruit tree catalogs have hundreds, thousands of choices, and each one is different, in different ways. It has nothing to do with heirloom or open pollinated, or gmo, or non gmo. Some varieties just don't have much flavor, or they are picked too young, before flavor has developed.

 

[resinryder]

50 years of feeding the plant and not the siol has made its contribution to the flavorless produce. But then again, we're feeding not only the US population but many parts or the world. Farmers need turnover and that's where big argo come in with the magic beans.
Timothy hay is getting hard to find. Very little makes it here for the horses. The farmers producing it are now filling conex boxes with it and shipping it to China for hella money. Can't blame em really but it sucks come time to find it.

 

[Weird]

Organic Agriculture: Does It Affect Antioxidants and Nutritional Quality?
By Alyson E. Mitchell, Ph.D., and Alexander W. Chassy, B.S.

Consumer awareness of the relationship between foods and health, together with environmental concerns, has led to an increased demand for organically produced foods. In general the public perceives organic foods as being healthier and safer than those produced through conventional agricultural practices.1 However, controversy remains regarding whether or not organic foods have a nutritional and/or sensory advantage when compared to their conventionally produced counterparts. Advocates for organic produce claim it contains fewer harmful chemicals, is better for the environment and may be more nutritious. There are fundamental differences in organic and conventional production practices, but limited information is available detailing how various practices influence the nutritional quality, especially in terms of health-related antioxidants, of soybeans and other food crops.

Fruits and vegetables are a focal point of this controversy, since these foods are a significant source of phenolic antioxidants, as phenolic acids and flavonoids, in the diet. Epidemiological studies consistently indicate an inverse correlation between the consumption of fruits and vegetables and the risk of human cancers, cardiovascular disease, diabetes and age-related declines in cognition.2-7 These chronic diseases are linked to the oxidation of critical cellular macromolecules (e.g. proteins, lipids and DNA) by reactive oxygen species (ROS).8 Phenolic antioxidants are thought to neutralize ROS before they cause damage and lead to diseases. Dietary guidelines set by the USDA now suggest increased consumption of fruits and vegetables (5-11 serving a day). Additionally, reports by WHO and the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) of the United Nations emphasize the role of foods and nutrition in the prevention of noncommunicable diseases and point to a role for plant-derived phytochemicals in the prevention of heart disease and cancer.9-10

It is important to recognize that both conventional and organic agricultural practices represent dynamic systems that can vary greatly depending upon region, soil quality, prevalence of pests, crop, climate and farm philosophies. This makes comparisons very difficult.

Conventional agriculture evolved globally in response to the availability of high-yield crop cultivars, chemical fertilizers and pesticides, and progressing irrigation and mechanization. Organic farming has also evolved, yet must adhere to National Organic Standards set by the USDA in 2000. Accordingly, organic crops must not be genetically engineered, irradiated, or fertilized with sewage sludge. Additionally, farmland used to grow organic crops is prohibited from treatment with synthetic pesticides and herbicides for at least three years prior to harvest. Disease-resistant varieties are often used and plant nutrients are supplied through crop rotation, cover crops and animal manure.

Fertilization is an important aspect to consider when comparing organic and conventional agriculture. Organic fertilization typically does not provide nitrogen in a form that is as readily accessible to plants as conventional fertilizers. The accessibility of nitrogen has the potential to influence the synthesis of phenolic antioxidants and soluble solids. For example, several studies demonstrate there is a decrease in the concentration of phenolic antioxidants in plants with increasing nutrient availability.11-14 There are various overlapping hypotheses that attempt to explain this relationship including the carbon/nutrient balance (CNB) hypothesis, growth-differentiation balance (GDB) hypothesis and protein competition model (PCM).15-17 In general, these theories state that high nutrient availability leads to an increase in plant growth and development, and a decreased allocation of resources towards the production of expendable metabolites such as the phenolic antioxidants.

The term phenolic antioxidant refers to both simple phenolic acids and flavonoids. They are products of secondary plant metabolism and are ubiquitous natural components of plants. Secondary plant metabolites are defined as those compounds that are not essential to the life of the plant (e.g. DNA, RNA, chlorophyll, amino acids and starch) and include phytochemicals such as caffeine, isoflavonoids and phenolic antioxidants. Plants produce secondary metabolites as a defense mechanism against photo-oxidation, herbivory (insect and animal predation), and for protection against pathogen attack. Additionally, they are critical components in the health of the plant, and many are pigments that help to attract pollinating insects. The composition of secondary plant metabolites differs between plants and within plant tissues. Genotype (i.e. the cultivar or variety) is the primary determinant of the composition of secondary plant metabolites, although their expression is strongly influenced by environmental pressures, climate and UV-light exposure.18

Scientists have recently begun to question whether the levels of phenolic antioxidants are lower in foods grown using conventional agricultural practices, since these practices utilize levels of pesticides and fertilizers that can result in a disruption of the natural production of plant-defense related metabolites. Differences between the content of phenolic metabolites in organically and conventionally produced fruits and vegetables allow for the possibility that organically grown produce may benefit human health more than corresponding conventionally grown produce. Reviews of existing literature demonstrate inconsistent differences in the nutritional quality of conventionally and organically produced vegetables with the exception of potentially higher levels of certain minerals, ascorbic acid and less nitrates in organic foods.19-22 However, these data are difficult to interpret, since cultivar selection and growing conditions varied widely and different methods of sampling and analysis were used in the investigations reviewed. Additionally, the majority of these studies did not assess levels of phenolic antioxidants, as their role in human health was not yet appreciated. However, it is generally agreed that the levels of secondary metabolites have the potential to differ the most between these two agricultural practices, since they are produced in response to stress.22

Recent studies (Table 1) have begun to examine the role of agriculture in the context of influencing the production of phenolic antioxidants in plants.23-28 For example, in two studies conducted by Carbonaro et al., higher levels of total phenolics were found in organic peaches and pears when compared with their conventional counterparts.23-24 In a study of five vegetables common in the Japanese diet, Ren et al. demonstrated that organically grown spinach contained 120 percent higher antioxidant activity while Welsh onion, Chinese cabbage and qing-gen-cai contained 20-50 percent higher antioxidant activity compared to their conventionally grown counterparts. 25 In our own studies, we have found consistently higher levels of total phenolics and ascorbic acid in organic strawberries, marionberries and sweet corn.26 Conversely, Häkkinen and Törrönen report that organic cultivation had no consistent effect on the levels of phenolic compounds in strawberries.27 In more recent, unpublished studies at the University of California Davis, we have found higher levels of total phenolics, soluble solids and ascorbic acid, as well as the flavonoid aglycone quercetin in two organically produced tomato cultivars. Interestingly, the same differences were not seen in organic bell peppers grown concurrently with the tomatoes. This demonstrates the important point that differences in agricultural practices will not affect all plants and all secondary metabolites equally. Research is needed to determine whether differences in agricultural practices affect the levels of phenolic antioxidants in soybeans.

Contemporary literature illustrates an apparent trend toward higher levels of phenolic antioxidants, ascorbic acid and soluble solids in organic foods. However, there are still far too few studies completed to establish a consensus regarding the health benefit of organic foods. Ultimately, more research examining relationships between agricultural production and the synthesis of phytochemicals in specific crops is needed. Future studies should emphasize the potential for agricultural manipulations to alter levels of both beneficial and potentially toxic phytochemicals in foods. The ability to manage and control levels of beneficial phenolic antioxidants in plants through cultivation has the potential to enhance the nutritive quality of foods.



ABOUT THE AUTHORS

Alyson E. Mitchell, Ph.D., is an assistant professor and food chemist at the University of California at Davis. Her lab specializes in assessing phytochemicals in foods and developing strategies to evaluate their role in human health. She received her B.S. with honors in environmental toxicology and her Ph.D. in pharmacology and toxicology from the University of California at Davis. AlexanderW. Chassy, B.S., is a food chemistry Master’s student with Dr. Mitchell at the University of California at Davis. His research focuses on the potential differences between organic and conventional agriculture with respect to quality and health. He received his B.S. from the Department of Food Science at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst.

REFERENCES

1) Jolly DA et al. Organic foods – consumer attitudes and use. Food Tech 1989; 43(11): 60.
2) Galati G. Teng S, Moridani MY, Chan TS, O'Brien PJ. Cancer chemoprevention and apoptosis mechanisms induced by dietary polyphenolics. Drug Metabol Drug Interact 2000; 17: 311-349.
3) Hollman PC, Hertog MG, Katan MB. Role of dietary flavonoids in protection against cancer and coronary heart disease. Biochem Soc Trans 1996; 24: 785-789.
4) Di Carlo G, Mascolo N, Izzo AA, Capasso F. Flavonoids: old and new aspects of a class of natural therapeutic drugs. Life Sci 1999; 65: 337-353.
5) Knekt P, Kumpulainen J, Järvinen R, et al. Flavonoid intake and risk of chronic disease. Am J Clin Nutr 2002; 76: 560-568.
6) Waltner-Law ME, Wang XL, Law BK, et al. Epigallocatechin gallate, a constituent of green tea, represses hepatic glucose production. J Biol Chem 2002; 277(38): 34933-40.
7) Joseph JA, Shukitt-Hale B, Denisova NA, et al. Reversals of age-related declines in neuronal signal transduction, cognitive, and motor behavioral deficits with blueberry, spinach, or strawberry dietary supplementation. J Neurosci 1999; 19: 8114-8121.
8) Pietta PG. Flavonoids as antioxidants. J Nat Prod 2000; 63: 1035-1042.
9) Wahlqvist ML, Wattanapenpaiboon N. Can functional foods make a difference to disease prevention and control? in: Globalization, Diets and Noncommunicable Diseases; WHO 2002: 1-21.
10) World Health Organization, Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations. Diet, nutrition and the prevention of chronic diseases. WHO Technical Report Series No. 916. Geneva, Switzerland, 2003: 1-1394.
11) Sander JF, Heitefuss R. Susceptibility to Erysiphe graminis f. sp. tritici and phenolic acid content of wheat as influenced by different levels of nitrogen fertilization. J Phytopathol 1998; 146: 495-507.
12) Stout MJ, Brovont RA, Duffey SS. Effect of nitrogen availability on expression of constitutive and inducible chemical defenses in tomato. J Chem Ecol 1998; 24:945-963.
13) Wilkens RT, Spoerke JM, Stamp NE. Differential responses of growth and two soluble phenolics of tomato to resource availability. Ecology 1996; 77: 247-258.
14) Doll H et al. Phenolic compounds in barley varieties with different degree of partial resistance against powdery mildew. Acta Hortic 1994; 381: 576-582.
15) Bryant J, Chapin I, Klein D, Carbon/nutrient balance of boreal plants in relation to vertebrate herbivory. Oikos 1983; 40: 357- 368.
16) Herms DA, Mattson WJ. The dilemma of plants: to grow or defend. Q Rev Biol 1992; 67: 283-335.
17) Jones CG, Hartley SE. A protein competition model of phenolic allocation. Oikos 1999; 86: 27-44.
18) Dixon RA, Paiva NL. Stress-induced phenylpropanoid metabolism. Plant Cell 1995; 7(7): 1085-1097.
19) Woese K et al. A comparison of organically and conventionally grown foods -results of a review of the relevant literature. J Science Food and Agric 1997; 74(3): 281-293.
20) Bourn D, Prescott J. A comparison of the nutritional value, sensory qualities, and food safety of organically and conventionally produced foods. Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr 2002; 42(1): 1-34.
21) Worthington V. Nutritional quality of organic versus conventional fruits, vegetables, and grains. J Alt Comp Med 2001; 7(2): 161-173.
22) Brandt K, Molgaard JP. Organic agriculture: does it enhance or reduce the nutitional value of plant foods. J Sci Food Agric 2001; 81: 924-931.
23) Carbonaro M, Mattera M. Polyphenoloxidase activity and polyphenol levels in organically and conventionally grown peach (Prunus persica L., cv. Regina bianca) and pear (Pyrus communis L., cv. Williams). Food Chem 2001; 72(4): 419-424.
24) Carbonaro M, et al. Modulation of antioxidant compounds in organic vs conventional fruit (peach, Prunus persica L., and pear, Pyrus communis L.). J Agric Food Chem 2002; 50(19): 5458-5462.
25) Ren H, Bao H, Endo H, Hayashi, T. Antioxidative and antimicrobial activities and flavonoid contents of organically cultivated vegetables. Nippon Shokuhin Kagaku Kogaku Kaishi 2001; 48(4): 246-252.
26) Asami, DK, et al., Comparison of the total phenolic and ascorbic acid content of freeze-dried and air-dried marionberry, strawberry, and corn grown using conventional, organic, and sustainable agricultural practices. J Agric Food Chem 2003; 51(5): 1237-41.
27) Häkkinen SH, Törrönen AR. Content of flavonols and selected phenolic acids in strawberries and Vaccinium species: influence of cultivar, cultivation site and technique. Food Res Int 2000; 33(6): 517-524.

28) Grinder-Petersen et al. Effect of diets based on foods from conventional versus organic production on intake and excretion of flavonoids and markers of antioxidant defense in humans. J Agric Food Chem 2003; 51: 5671-5676.

 

[Weird]

Organic farming, food quality and human health: A review of the evidence

http://www.soilassociation.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=cY8kfP3Q+gA=&;tabid=388

Organic vs Conventionally Grown Rio Red Whole Grapefruit and Juice:  Comparison of Production Inputs, Market Quality, Consumer Acceptance, and Human Health-Bioactive Compounds

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf070901s

Quality of organically and conventionally grown potatoes: Four-year study of micronutrients, metals, secondary metabolites, enzymic browning and organoleptic properties

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02652030500137827#.UusGOLSaC9U

Fruit and Soil Quality of Organic and Conventional Strawberry Agroecosystems

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0012346

 

[supermanlives]

ya got to pee on em oldschool style. its the secret ingredient along with the blood from a recently deflowered virgin....makes the flavors come out

 

[TheCleanGame]

After nearly 2 years of no processed foods... I just spent over a month eating them again.

The most profound change I noticed about taste and smell was that "Real" food smells and tastes don't seem to be as potent when your tastebuds are on crack. I'm referring to the chemical flavors and additives in foods.

2-3 days of "Real" food, no processed or fake stuff, and the desire to eat real food and the complex nature of everything begins to come back.

Crazy to walk into a FOOD store and get that "I haven't had tobacco in 3 days!" kind of feening for packaged food products. Criminal.

All the produce sucks at 10,000 feet. Oh well.

Keep it Clean!