Aren't temps that low counter productive?
Original Poster : I'd do the frozen bucket couple o' times a day move if you're going for cheap/efficient/cost effective..it's a working strategy
Best of luck
Any Ideas on how to chill my water temp, without a chiller??
- Thread starter MeanBean
- Start date
Aren't temps that low counter productive?
Original Poster : I'd do the frozen bucket couple o' times a day move if you're going for cheap/efficient/cost effective..it's a working strategy
Best of luck
i'm going to try & buy a water cooler out of an office that is closing, or find one in junk yard & try to repair it. also thought about buying small dorm fridge & run a spiral "worm" inside of it like is done when condensing alcohol on a moonshine still.
ecsd
Member
drill 2 holes in the side of a mini fridge(size of your hose), use grommets, coil as much hose as you can inside. one hole is an in and the other an out. worked good for me in the past, ran 15 min every 3 hrs. the solution sitting in the "fridge" line should be cool enough to help you out and be cool enough for each cycle. and you can find mini fridges cheap
little to slow armed beat me to the punch
little to slow armed beat me to the punch
superultramega
Member
What are the coils made of in a chiller? I have to imagine the lines inside the machine are copper. So when you're running a chiller aren't you circulating nutrient solution through copper tubing?
Here's what I'm doing
Here's what I'm doing
I just started doing this two days ago because I could not get the tent under 88 without openin the door. I have also asked about the dangers/benefits but haven't gotten any respones. If ANYONE has first hand exp or simply knows that this approach is knuckleheaded, please chime in.
It's simple: I am blowing about half of the volume from an inline 150cfm fan. I have a ten site tub with seedlings with three inch roots. So, there is a four nch duct connected to an empty net pot site, blowing into the res but not immersed into the h2o. The temps at the net sites are a constant 77 and the res stays at 66, rh at filter
intake is 50 and 64 at net sites. There has been ordinary but not remarkable growth since I started this. You can feel the cool air coming up through the rocks and can smell the nutes, for sure, but like I said, they're growing nicely. I have to keep
ac at 74; the intake is ducted from this room into
closet and into the tent.
Will this work for heavily rooted plants, you think? Or would the air flow be disastrous?
Anyway, I found a happy medium with the airflow going onto he res and into the tent. I cut a large slit in he duct as it enters the tent.
I'm sure this could be done with a much less powerful fan. At one point I even fashioned a takeoff on the duct and ran inline tubing into the res water, creating one hella d.o. solution, I reckon.
Let me know if anyone has thoughts on any of this.
Gracias. D
Here's what I'm doing
I just started doing this two days ago because I could not get the tent under 88 without openin the door. I have also asked about the dangers/benefits but haven't gotten any respones. If ANYONE has first hand exp or simply knows that this approach is knuckleheaded, please chime in.
It's simple: I am blowing about half of the volume from an inline 150cfm fan. I have a ten site tub with seedlings with three inch roots. So, there is a four nch duct connected to an empty net pot site, blowing into the res but not immersed into the h2o. The temps at the net sites are a constant 77 and the res stays at 66, rh at filter
intake is 50 and 64 at net sites. There has been ordinary but not remarkable growth since I started this. You can feel the cool air coming up through the rocks and can smell the nutes, for sure, but like I said, they're growing nicely. I have to keep
ac at 74; the intake is ducted from this room into
closet and into the tent.
Will this work for heavily rooted plants, you think? Or would the air flow be disastrous?
Anyway, I found a happy medium with the airflow going onto he res and into the tent. I cut a large slit in he duct as it enters the tent.
I'm sure this could be done with a much less powerful fan. At one point I even fashioned a takeoff on the duct and ran inline tubing into the res water, creating one hella d.o. solution, I reckon.
Let me know if anyone has thoughts on any of this.
Gracias. D
Last edited:
thermo-electric cooler
Spanishwilly
Member
Do this.^^^
MeanBean
Member
Actually, I am a little stingy with electric for that. My grow is efficient to start I cant stop trying to stay that way! However I just got wind that I am getting a electric wine bottle chiller. Maybe just maybe, if it doesn't use to much power I will do the coil idea in there! guess I will have to buy my own though!
If I do, I will get super skinny copper coils, I am gonna go checkout what the "liquid cooling systems" for pc's are looking like these days. I bet I could find/fit some kind of 5 stack cpu radiator deal in the wine bottle chiller, then just run my water through slowly.
If I do, I will get super skinny copper coils, I am gonna go checkout what the "liquid cooling systems" for pc's are looking like these days. I bet I could find/fit some kind of 5 stack cpu radiator deal in the wine bottle chiller, then just run my water through slowly.
Numboard
Member
I am quite experienced with computer water cooling and diy applications for computer water cooling as well. Active passive cooling is not good for our applications. We want our water temps to be lower than ambient, Blowing ambient air through a radiator which has our nutrient solution flowing through it will not get it any cooler than the air thats blowing through it.
In a pc cooling application you have a heat load that is many times greater than ambient air (the cpu/video cards) keeping our temps at room temperature is just fine. (we do sometimes incorporate water chillers into our systems too, Even direct phase change cooling) However using a small pc water cooling rad mounted to the output of your ac unit would work fantastic. That actually gives me some ideas
If you do use pc rads though, I wouldn't circulate your nutrient solution through them. When implemented in a pc cooling situation we never circulate anything but pure distilled water with a algaecide/silver added. all the salts would clog these things so fast. SO, MY SUGGESTION is to use a closed loop, mount one rad with zip ties to the output of your ac unit, Put one rad in your res connect the two with tubes and circulate r/o or distilled water through them with a pump of your choice. Ill be testing this out very soon actually I originally came to this thread to get ideas for the same exact issue. Thanks XD
In a pc cooling application you have a heat load that is many times greater than ambient air (the cpu/video cards) keeping our temps at room temperature is just fine. (we do sometimes incorporate water chillers into our systems too, Even direct phase change cooling) However using a small pc water cooling rad mounted to the output of your ac unit would work fantastic. That actually gives me some ideas
If you do use pc rads though, I wouldn't circulate your nutrient solution through them. When implemented in a pc cooling situation we never circulate anything but pure distilled water with a algaecide/silver added. all the salts would clog these things so fast. SO, MY SUGGESTION is to use a closed loop, mount one rad with zip ties to the output of your ac unit, Put one rad in your res connect the two with tubes and circulate r/o or distilled water through them with a pump of your choice. Ill be testing this out very soon actually I originally came to this thread to get ideas for the same exact issue. Thanks XD
Numboard
Member
MINI FRIDGES/WINE CHILLERS WILL NOT WORK, FOR ANY KIND OF GROW ROOM COOLING..
You wont believe how many times I have had to explain this to people. (Its a good idea I had it once too)
Mini fridges are designed to cope with No heat load. bags of veggies, milk, juice, whatever you put in your fridge normally has no heat load aside from what heat is already in it from being outside of a fridge. Your heat load in this situation is your res temps aka your lights shining on your buckets creating a heat load. Constantly cooling this would require the mini fridge to operate constantly. and likely wouldn't even be able to cope with it. In all refrigeration systems which are essentially "heat pumps" the cooler you keep the "hot side" the cooler the "cold side" will be. Look on the back of your mini fridge. You will probably see a pretty simple radiator which consists of a copper tube going in zigzags accompanied by some thin metal wire soldered to it to give it rigidity. also you'll notice theres no fan blowing on it. This is an ineffective rad for the kind of cooling we desire.
Ac units have much better rads hence their much greater cooling ability. Efficiently transferring this cool air via water to your res, as explained above with the closed pc rad loop would be your best bet. If you have an ac unit of course... If not I think your best bet would be a "swamp cooler" which is detailed above in post 25.
Some mini fridges use giant peltiers to cool. A custom peltier cooler might work actually. You would have to get a large one a really large one. I would try and find something that uses at least 500-600 watts. Then i would find a really nice heat sink of some kind to mount to the hot side of the pelt. Get a nice big fan to blow across the fins, axial fans wouldnt cut it here. Try to route your exhaust ducting over the fins somehow, maybe build an enclosure with Tupperware and ductape/zip ties so your air blows across pelt fins then out of the grow area along with your other hot vents. Then I would use some kind of water block on the cool side of the pelt to circulate through your res. Water blocks can come in all shapes and forms. The best one in your situation might be a coil of copper tubing, 1/4 inch maybe? wrapped in a tight dense coil then affixed directly to the cold side of the pelt with adhesive thermal paste then insulated like fuck.
Remember there is a direct correlation between watts and heat, a 1000 watt bulb is going to produce 1000 watts of heat. Same goes for pelts 500watts of pelt power is going to be able to move 500watts of heat out of your res. (ASSUMING 100% EFFICIENCY, Which they aren't, nothing is.) By using active cooling you cant skimp on how much power you use. If you need to keep your res cool you are going to need a certain number of watts regardless of what type of cooling you use. And ill tell you right now water chillers are the MOST efficient water cooling devices out there. They have nice rads and nice water/freeon exchangers. Your chiller will only run when it NEEDS to to keep your temps down. This is what you want regardless of what system you use. The pelt is going to be less efficent than a propper water chiller. This means that while it might use less power than a water chiller its still going to be run longer than a water chiller to achieve the same amount of cooling. You cant argue with basic math. A water chiller is going to use less power than a pelt. This means that no matter what cooling design you come up with its going to use more power per btu of water cooled than a chiller. period.
Lots of bad info and suggestions in this thread. I just dont want anybody to waste their money chasing things that wont work. like I did.
You wont believe how many times I have had to explain this to people. (Its a good idea I had it once too)
Mini fridges are designed to cope with No heat load. bags of veggies, milk, juice, whatever you put in your fridge normally has no heat load aside from what heat is already in it from being outside of a fridge. Your heat load in this situation is your res temps aka your lights shining on your buckets creating a heat load. Constantly cooling this would require the mini fridge to operate constantly. and likely wouldn't even be able to cope with it. In all refrigeration systems which are essentially "heat pumps" the cooler you keep the "hot side" the cooler the "cold side" will be. Look on the back of your mini fridge. You will probably see a pretty simple radiator which consists of a copper tube going in zigzags accompanied by some thin metal wire soldered to it to give it rigidity. also you'll notice theres no fan blowing on it. This is an ineffective rad for the kind of cooling we desire.
Ac units have much better rads hence their much greater cooling ability. Efficiently transferring this cool air via water to your res, as explained above with the closed pc rad loop would be your best bet. If you have an ac unit of course... If not I think your best bet would be a "swamp cooler" which is detailed above in post 25.
Some mini fridges use giant peltiers to cool. A custom peltier cooler might work actually. You would have to get a large one a really large one. I would try and find something that uses at least 500-600 watts. Then i would find a really nice heat sink of some kind to mount to the hot side of the pelt. Get a nice big fan to blow across the fins, axial fans wouldnt cut it here. Try to route your exhaust ducting over the fins somehow, maybe build an enclosure with Tupperware and ductape/zip ties so your air blows across pelt fins then out of the grow area along with your other hot vents. Then I would use some kind of water block on the cool side of the pelt to circulate through your res. Water blocks can come in all shapes and forms. The best one in your situation might be a coil of copper tubing, 1/4 inch maybe? wrapped in a tight dense coil then affixed directly to the cold side of the pelt with adhesive thermal paste then insulated like fuck.
Remember there is a direct correlation between watts and heat, a 1000 watt bulb is going to produce 1000 watts of heat. Same goes for pelts 500watts of pelt power is going to be able to move 500watts of heat out of your res. (ASSUMING 100% EFFICIENCY, Which they aren't, nothing is.) By using active cooling you cant skimp on how much power you use. If you need to keep your res cool you are going to need a certain number of watts regardless of what type of cooling you use. And ill tell you right now water chillers are the MOST efficient water cooling devices out there. They have nice rads and nice water/freeon exchangers. Your chiller will only run when it NEEDS to to keep your temps down. This is what you want regardless of what system you use. The pelt is going to be less efficent than a propper water chiller. This means that while it might use less power than a water chiller its still going to be run longer than a water chiller to achieve the same amount of cooling. You cant argue with basic math. A water chiller is going to use less power than a pelt. This means that no matter what cooling design you come up with its going to use more power per btu of water cooled than a chiller. period.
Lots of bad info and suggestions in this thread. I just dont want anybody to waste their money chasing things that wont work. like I did.
MeanBean
Member
numb board, thanks for you input. As far as the pc cooling stuff yeah I know that's not actually going to cool my water. I was just going to use it for the plumbing and radiator deals into the chiller.
Go to amazon and search for "Iceless Wine Chiller" What kind of cooling system is this? I was thinking to build some coil pack for in there an set that baby at 67 degrees. Then let the water slowly pump through every so often.
I was thinking with that and insulating the buckets I might lose a few degrees.
Go to amazon and search for "Iceless Wine Chiller" What kind of cooling system is this? I was thinking to build some coil pack for in there an set that baby at 67 degrees. Then let the water slowly pump through every so often.
I was thinking with that and insulating the buckets I might lose a few degrees.
superultramega
Member
Then you should probably break down and buy a chiller.
If you search enough you can find plans to modify a window A/C to a water chiller. You can build one for far less than the cost of a dedicated water chiller.
If you search enough you can find plans to modify a window A/C to a water chiller. You can build one for far less than the cost of a dedicated water chiller.
Numboard
Member
Those iceless wine chillers are definitely peltier based. Anything thats too small to fit an a/c compressor in them and advertised to "chill" or refrigerate anything uses a pelt. If you can find out how many watts they use you can get an idea of how much cooling power you might be able to get out of em. My personal opinion: bupkis
It looks like you only use led's so, where do you suspect the heat is comming from? My suggestion is to buy the smallest "water chiller" you can find. Like a 1/6 hp one. Those aren't going to use much power definitely less than 1000 watts. Significantly less than
that prolly. It doesn't seem like your issues are too big just alittle suplemental cooling would keep you in the clear I think. Remember the chillers only run when they have to.
Edit: It looks like 1/5 hp water chillers use about 450~ watts.
It looks like you only use led's so, where do you suspect the heat is comming from? My suggestion is to buy the smallest "water chiller" you can find. Like a 1/6 hp one. Those aren't going to use much power definitely less than 1000 watts. Significantly less than
that prolly. It doesn't seem like your issues are too big just alittle suplemental cooling would keep you in the clear I think. Remember the chillers only run when they have to.
Edit: It looks like 1/5 hp water chillers use about 450~ watts.
Numboard
Member
Modifying a ac unit to chill water is a good plan if you dont care about wasting power. Buying a separate temperature switch that you can plug in between the wall and the ac would be a must then. or else it would be running constantly. and I doubt he needs that much cooling power. He's only using led's
"I leave the grow un attended for weeks at a time so it's gotta be automatic."
I would seriously just get a chiller then. any diy thing you try and do will require constant monitoring because if something goes wrong you're fucked.
if u go to homedepot they sell a foil tape that has 1/4i of foam insulation on it i rap my buckets in it 2x and the temps do shoot up no where near as fast i use ice bottles but am in my room 2x a day doin maitnence and just lookin at the ladies if i had to leave my grow for weeks iwould be loosin my mind sorry i couldnt be more help best of luck how hot is it gettin it buckets when my temps go high i elimated some of my ingrediants in my nute soup and it helped keep my roots happy at higher temps how hot does it get im also a led grower
peace stone
peace stone
Spanishwilly
Member
WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA!
That's not what I thought you meant by a mini fridge you guys. You can chill reservoir fluids in a small fridge. A bar fridge or a cottage fridge. You put a big container of water in the fridge and run the stainless tube coil through it and back out again.
And that's right. it's nothing like as good as a real chiller. Way less efficient.
Numboard
Member
Doesn't matter what fridge you use. A big ass fridge Might be able to cope with simply cooling a res. but its still drastically more energy.
No matter what fridge you use it will still have a crappy heat exchanger and wont be able to cope with constant heat loads.
My one and only dip into cooling with mini fridges was building a diy air conditioner.
I had a big bucket of ice water sitting inside the mini fridge with a submersible pump sitting at the bottom, Tubing from the pump through a coil of copper affixed to the "cold plate" in the mini fridge. the tubing then ran to this radiator sitting on top of the fridge
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/maxspam/IMG_2253.jpg?t=1276477277
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/maxspam/IMG_2254.jpg?t=1276477277
then back to the bucket in the fridge.
Cooling worked great for about 20 minutes, then the cooling stopped
When I opened the fridge the water was luke warm and so was the interior of the fridge.
Don't waste your time trying. Trust me you will be very very disappointed
superultramega
Member
obviously he needs a thermostat.
You can buy a window a/c for $100 and convert it to a chiller. Much cheaper than buying a pre-made unit.
