Tilt
Member
Anti this guy is jonesin . been a member since 2008 and this is the first post? Wow.... I'm sure whatever Anti's got it will be worth the wait.
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Anti's MicroStealth Cab 4000 (The PL-L adventure!)
- Thread starter Anti
- Start date
Anti this guy is jonesin . been a member since 2008 and this is the first post? Wow.... I'm sure whatever Anti's got it will be worth the wait.
Hey guys,
Have any of you ever thought of using regular CFLs and getting reflectors? Reflectors like these http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/detachable-aluminum-compact-fluorescent-reflectors/
I am working on designing/building a cabinet for a microgrow, SOG style, haven't decided on soil or aeroponics though. I might try one then the other.
That said, I am going to have the cabinet setup 2 sections one for veg mothers (2 plants), and 1 for the flowering clones. The Flower section will be divided into 4 sets, there will be no real divider, just imagined. Overtop of each set I will have the lights mounted to a panel that I can raise/lower.
I am really thinking of using CFLs with reflectors to project all the light downwards, and use something like 40W CFLs. Four CFLs over each set of plants and 9 plants in each section.
I am just wondering if there will be enough light, or whether the reflectors will focus light too much. I haven't read about anyone using these reflectors before. According to the site, 1000bulbs.com which sells the reflectors (awesome site btw), they will increase light output by 80%.
So whatcha think?
Have any of you ever thought of using regular CFLs and getting reflectors? Reflectors like these http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/detachable-aluminum-compact-fluorescent-reflectors/
I am working on designing/building a cabinet for a microgrow, SOG style, haven't decided on soil or aeroponics though. I might try one then the other.
That said, I am going to have the cabinet setup 2 sections one for veg mothers (2 plants), and 1 for the flowering clones. The Flower section will be divided into 4 sets, there will be no real divider, just imagined. Overtop of each set I will have the lights mounted to a panel that I can raise/lower.
I am really thinking of using CFLs with reflectors to project all the light downwards, and use something like 40W CFLs. Four CFLs over each set of plants and 9 plants in each section.
I am just wondering if there will be enough light, or whether the reflectors will focus light too much. I haven't read about anyone using these reflectors before. According to the site, 1000bulbs.com which sells the reflectors (awesome site btw), they will increase light output by 80%.
So whatcha think?
I looked into those when I built my CFL cab.
Having used CFls for about a year and some change, I'm itching to try PLLs. I believe that my new cab will outperform my current cab by a large margin in terms of bud density, light penetration, nodal spacing, growth rate and final weight. Only time will tell, of course, but my CFL cab is still chugging along and getting better results as I tweak my knowledge and experiment.
Once I get the new PLL cab up and running I will most likely retire this CFL cab.
It has served me well, and would still serve a newbie or CFL-minded user well, but PLLs make so much more sense for the kinds of things I'm doing.
Small plants with one single cola and relatively no side branching which surround a vertical light and are in turn lit by still other vertical lights which run from soil height up to ceiling height. I think the results will be impressive.
But let's find out!
I encourage you all to run your own experiments and build the cab or closet or tent that is best suited to your particular style and learning level.
CFLs rock! I've just come to believe that PLLs have the potential to ROCK HARDER especially in a vertical setup.
Yeah, I was thinking of using PLLs, really it will depend on where I will be living in a few months (possibly moving). The new place I might be moving in to, an apartment, has included the price of electricity into the rent, although I don't know the particulars of it yet. That said, if it really is a free for all, within reason, I will probably use a bunch of PLLs in a vertical format. Otherwise, I think I will try using CFLs pointing down from the ceiling with those reflectors.
I was looking at your cab design, and it is really awesome, the design I have in mind is very similar, except the veg area is smaller and the flower area is larger. But I completely forgot about a drying area, lol. Although I intend to do a lot of water curing.
I will give PLLs more thought though, do you think it would be better to have more low power 2700k PLLs, or less high power 3000k PLLs? i.e. 4 24w 2700k PLLs vs 2 50w 3000k PLLs?
Panama Red
Active member
Atari, I've been using cfl's since they came out in every different place I can around the house.
I've found they don't do very well in enclosed/semi-enclosed fixtures or in a downward orientation.
The elevated operating temps in those situations result in a quick drop-off in lumen levels and drastically shortened life.
Anti,
With the single bud is there any way to take a clone off of one of your 2 week old clones? I've read about using cuttings off of day 14-21 plants in the flowering room and it sounds appealing if you could get away from the mother plant room. If Tilt is out there feel free to comment as well.
With the single bud is there any way to take a clone off of one of your 2 week old clones? I've read about using cuttings off of day 14-21 plants in the flowering room and it sounds appealing if you could get away from the mother plant room. If Tilt is out there feel free to comment as well.
Tilt
Member
It is possible. I tried it but I found it hard to keep a schedule. With a bonsai mother I can take cuts when ever I want and take the best cuts available. Waiting for whatever comes off your clones can be nerve wracking. Bonsais do work and you get consistant results in your cloner.
pufferfish
Member
hay anti i got some mt38 mini tree pots ...how did u cover the hole at the bottom..thanx
"a 50w PLL puts out 4000 lumens at a distance of one foot. Because of the inverse square law, this means that at a half foot from the bulb, (the orange circle) it is putting out 16,000 lumens. per sq ft. At three inches from the bulb (yellow circle), it would be putting out 64,000 lumens per square foot."
Anti,
You and Tilt have peaked my interest on this set up. Would it be more accurate to say these numbers above are per cubed foot? I would be curious what pico would come up with with his light meter. Good luck and I hope to see the finished product soon.
Jake
Anti,
You and Tilt have peaked my interest on this set up. Would it be more accurate to say these numbers above are per cubed foot? I would be curious what pico would come up with with his light meter. Good luck and I hope to see the finished product soon.
Jake
Panoramical
Member
I'm moving into my own rented accommodation in the next few months, so your design would be perfect. I've just read your entire 3000 thread and now this one.
The whole time I was reading your CFL thread, I was thinking "how could I use this design with PLLs" and what do you know? You've already done it.
Please share something soon.
The whole time I was reading your CFL thread, I was thinking "how could I use this design with PLLs" and what do you know? You've already done it.
Please share something soon.
I didn't cover the hole. I just pack my soil in there and maybe you lose a little on your first watering, maybe you don't.
I'm using a peat/sphagnum/perlite mix now.
plants are digging it.
They seem to really like the FloraNova series too.
I spent awhile wondering whether I should add some HPS action into the cab.
Spent a long while.
here's what I'm thinking lately:
Here's the whole cab as envisioned: 6ft (ish) tall, 4ft wide, 1.5 ft deep.
The plan is for TWELVE 55w PLLs, each hung vertically inside a 24" tube with the hottest part of the bulb (the end that attaches to the electricity) in the area above the ceiling.
Air would be drawn in through two 4" vents in the bottom of the cab. The floor of the cab would be covered with equally spaced 1" circular holes and sitting on this holy floor will be 10 one gallon air pots, each with approximately 9"x9" personal space. At about soil level, each of the six plants in the "middle" of this arrangement will be surrounded by 4 PLLs. The plants on the far right and left (four in all) will be in close proximity with at least 2 PLLs.
Two plants go in every 2 weeks and they spend their first month on the sides of the cab. After week 4, newbs replace them on the sides and they get one of the spaces in the middle until harvest.
Circles on the roof of the flowering chamber indicate 6 inches from the bulb. As you can see, a large portion of each plant will be much closer than 6" from soil to tip.
The little white "flower" represents the point where the light from 4 bulbs overlaps. You'll notice this is precisely where each of the "center 6" will be sitting for the final 5 weeks of their lives.
A closer view of the bottom ventilation. Air is pulled in from the back (see next image) and then vented into two opposite corners before being pulled by a 200 cfm 4" wind tunnel fan (on a temp controlled limiter) through the tubes, over the lights, through carbon and out the back.
The airpots have a 2" space at the bottom so each pot will have approximately 2" all around it to stimulate roots and provide ample air exchange from the ground up.
the light tubes hang within inches of the soil line and the bulbs themselves are approximately 22" long. So each plant has approximately 24-26" of vertical space and will have side lighting the entire length of the plant. They'll probably be switched to 12/12 around 6-9".
The back of the cabinet.
Sorry it has taken so long. Had a lot going on the last few months. My other cab (in my sig) is still churning it out, but I long for the days when I can a little more each time.
two 1 gallon plants every two weeks MIGHT just be less headache and less effort for more produce.
Thoughts, criticisms, suggestions?
Spent a long while.
here's what I'm thinking lately:
Here's the whole cab as envisioned: 6ft (ish) tall, 4ft wide, 1.5 ft deep.
The plan is for TWELVE 55w PLLs, each hung vertically inside a 24" tube with the hottest part of the bulb (the end that attaches to the electricity) in the area above the ceiling.
Air would be drawn in through two 4" vents in the bottom of the cab. The floor of the cab would be covered with equally spaced 1" circular holes and sitting on this holy floor will be 10 one gallon air pots, each with approximately 9"x9" personal space. At about soil level, each of the six plants in the "middle" of this arrangement will be surrounded by 4 PLLs. The plants on the far right and left (four in all) will be in close proximity with at least 2 PLLs.
Two plants go in every 2 weeks and they spend their first month on the sides of the cab. After week 4, newbs replace them on the sides and they get one of the spaces in the middle until harvest.
Circles on the roof of the flowering chamber indicate 6 inches from the bulb. As you can see, a large portion of each plant will be much closer than 6" from soil to tip.
The little white "flower" represents the point where the light from 4 bulbs overlaps. You'll notice this is precisely where each of the "center 6" will be sitting for the final 5 weeks of their lives.
A closer view of the bottom ventilation. Air is pulled in from the back (see next image) and then vented into two opposite corners before being pulled by a 200 cfm 4" wind tunnel fan (on a temp controlled limiter) through the tubes, over the lights, through carbon and out the back.
The airpots have a 2" space at the bottom so each pot will have approximately 2" all around it to stimulate roots and provide ample air exchange from the ground up.
the light tubes hang within inches of the soil line and the bulbs themselves are approximately 22" long. So each plant has approximately 24-26" of vertical space and will have side lighting the entire length of the plant. They'll probably be switched to 12/12 around 6-9".
The back of the cabinet.
Sorry it has taken so long. Had a lot going on the last few months. My other cab (in my sig) is still churning it out, but I long for the days when I can a little more each time.
two 1 gallon plants every two weeks MIGHT just be less headache and less effort for more produce.
Thoughts, criticisms, suggestions?
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Tilt
Member
I will chime in here. The set up looks like it will work. Some of my thoughts from personal experience.
1. find a way to mount a circulation fan in there. I really wish I had 1 in my chamber
2. mount the PLL where the flat sides face the adjoining plants.
3. maybe top or fim your plants to better use the footprint size
4. that few plants you might consider the blumats with drip clean( you could almost set and forget )
5. leave a little extra wiggle room in your dimensions you wont be sorry (allows you to tweak and adjust)
thats all for right now. I will hit you up if I think of anything else.
1. find a way to mount a circulation fan in there. I really wish I had 1 in my chamber
2. mount the PLL where the flat sides face the adjoining plants.
3. maybe top or fim your plants to better use the footprint size
4. that few plants you might consider the blumats with drip clean( you could almost set and forget )
5. leave a little extra wiggle room in your dimensions you wont be sorry (allows you to tweak and adjust)
thats all for right now. I will hit you up if I think of anything else.
Interesting design Anti.
Here's some feedback/questions/etc.
I'm confused how your rotation works with an odd number of spaces, ie you are basically dealing with 5 'slots' of 2 plants per slot, filling a new slot every two weeks, yet harvesting at week 9. I think if you went with harvesting on an even week (since you are putting plants in every 2 weeks), the rotation will work.
1. Can you explain your plant rotation a little clearer, giving an example using a full rotation.
2. How are bulbs going to be mounted to the ceiling? Are they going to be kind of free swinging? Or rigidly fixed?
a. If free swinging, how are you going to deal with the plants moving the lights?
b. If rigidly fixed, how strong is this connection going to be? I'd be worried the slightest bump would break pins/connections.
3. What is in the area above the flowering chamber?
a. If there are going to be plants up there, where are you going to put the ballasts to the lights?
Can't wait to see this built!
Here's some feedback/questions/etc.
I'm confused how your rotation works with an odd number of spaces, ie you are basically dealing with 5 'slots' of 2 plants per slot, filling a new slot every two weeks, yet harvesting at week 9. I think if you went with harvesting on an even week (since you are putting plants in every 2 weeks), the rotation will work.
1. Can you explain your plant rotation a little clearer, giving an example using a full rotation.
2. How are bulbs going to be mounted to the ceiling? Are they going to be kind of free swinging? Or rigidly fixed?
a. If free swinging, how are you going to deal with the plants moving the lights?
b. If rigidly fixed, how strong is this connection going to be? I'd be worried the slightest bump would break pins/connections.
3. What is in the area above the flowering chamber?
a. If there are going to be plants up there, where are you going to put the ballasts to the lights?
Can't wait to see this built!
I'm planning on mounting two (possibly oscillating if I can find them) small fans near the top of the chamber in opposite corners of the cabinet just to keep air moving around.
By flat you mean line it up so that the folded tubes both aim at the plant? That's what I'm planning. Tell me if I got you wrong.
Yeah. I'm gonna experiment once I get them in there. If someone doesn't make a suggestion that causes me to completely redesign.
I know what blumats are, but not super familiar with 'em. Not at all familiar with drip clean. Something you mix in the solution that keeps nozzles from clogging?
There's a little extra room to the extreme left and right of the cab. I'm trying to build something that will look like a wardrobe in the end.
Thanks for your input, homie.
I guess what I was envisioning is that 2 plants go in on week1.
On week 3, two more plants go in. (total of 4)
On week 5, two more go in (total of 6)
on week 7, two more go in (total of 8)
on week 9, two more go in (total of 10)
around week 9.5-10, two come out. (total of 8 in, 2 harvested)
on week 11, two go in. (total of 10)
on week 11.5-12 two come out (total of 8 in, 4 harvested)
on week 13 two go in. (total of 10)
on week 13.5-14 two come out (total of 8 in, 6 harvested)
So once it's up and running, I guess it would be harvesting on the even weeks (like you were saying) and planting on the odd weeks. Which would really only require me to make 4 clones at a time (just to have backups in case half don't root for some reason.)
Plants just entering the cabinet would spend their first four weeks on one of the two edges getting about half as much light and then move to the center before exiting the cab for harvest. (last two weeks of a given plants life spent in the dead center of the cab.)
My thought was to mount the 3G11s socket (or whatever that thing's called) to a small board which could run along slightly above the height of the flower chamber's ceiling. That way the lights are basically attached by their socket connection. They'd be inside rigid polycarbonate tubing with a half inch or so of breathing room between the bulbs and the tubing, so a small jostle of the tubing should not affect the bulb at all.
When we get to the literal build we will discover whether this holds up to reality or not.
At the moment, I am considering building a small clone shelf up there somewhere, and I am also considering the addition of a drying chamber somewhere in the path before the carbon filter.
I want to hammer out the details of the main chamber before I focus on the small details. If the big chamber changes, this will change the entire design, so better to get the main part right before moving forward with side details.
Nor I. I just want to get it right and I'm in relatively new territory with a lot of these ideas. Spending a lot of time revising older designs and doing complete virtual builds to find and eliminate issues before i put down money on the real thing.
Thanks for your input.
More thoughts, ideas, etc are welcome and encouraged.
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I'm thinking two more 50-55w 5000K or higher bulbs in the veg room just to keep the internodes short while they're vegging.
Thoughts? The size of the yellow circles in the pic reflects the choice of those 1.75" plastic tubes.
Keep in mind that I am way low-balling myself with the 4g per plant estimate. The LOWEST weight I have harvested thus far is 4.1g. That's under 252w of CFL sitting 16" or so from the soil. I would fully expect denser buds due to the vertical lighting (down to soil level) so the likely harvest per week will be that much larger
Anti,
My favorite design you have come up with for the flowering room is this post "48". The entire cabinet is getting pelted with light and there is hardly any space that is over 6" from the light. What I like best about your new set up is the decreased plant numbers and how all the older plants are totally surrounded by lights. What I don't like is of your 12 light new set up only 4 are unobstructed and take complete advantage of the vertical light placement. The 4 lining the front and the 4 lining the back have been given the equivalent of reflectors being placed right up against the wall. I've been trying to figure out how to run lower plant numbers and will probably go with something along your post 48 with plants(0) and lights (x) going something like this:
00000000
0x0x0x0x0
00000000
0x0x0x0x0
00000000
I like tilt's idea about automation with the tropf blumats and am trying to figure out how to get it as low maintenance as possible. My spot I have is great but the thought of a flood due to a blumat going haywire (which i hear does not happen often) or a problem with a flood and drain system causing a flood is holding me back. The one idea I have to deal with flooding is to put the pots in a tray like they make for hot water heaters and hvac air handlers to sit in so that any excess would drain into this tray or catch pan with a built in drain line carrying the potential flood to the drain of your choice.
This is coming from the peanut gallery so take it for what it is. I've been curious to see what you come up with and appreciate the ideas I've gotten from both you and tilt.
jake
Tilt
Member
House and Gardens drip clean. Neat stuff Krunchbubble did a nice write up on it.https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=150433
