i want to know the answer to this too? is there not some kind of criteria for searching people?
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i want to know the answer to this too? is there not some kind of criteria for searching people?
H
Hazyfontazy
not sure of the laws in holland but they can stop and search anyone in the uk ...
Gastro
Active member
In The Netherlands it depends on the local governments rules and regulations (known as an Algemene Plaatselijke Verordening) these are different from municipality to municipality.
In Amsterdam being in certain neighbourhoods at certain times of the day (for some even the whole day) is reason enough for the police to be allowed to search you and ask for your ID.
It is a combination of the weapons and ammo law art. 50, 51, and 52, and the Municipality law 151b. These have been changed in 2002 to allow this to happen.
http://www.regelgeving.amsterdam.nl/centralestad/algemene_plaatselijke_verordening_2008#top
well thats a bummer, seems they are treating anyone as a criminal in more and more places. no longer do they assume innocence, now they start off looking at you as guilty and you have to prove by allowing a search that you are not a criminal. hm...
also if it's a weapons law, then the search has to be for weapons, that would mean a quick tap down would be enough to know if someone is armed or not.
also if it's a weapons law, then the search has to be for weapons, that would mean a quick tap down would be enough to know if someone is armed or not.
Gastro
Active member
Most of the areas designated for searches are areas known for either criminal activity, drug use/abuse (dealing and using harddrugs), or areas with lots of bars and clubs.
The law makes sense in a way, streetgangs and people that just seem to hang around can be controlled it helps clean up the neighbourhood. It is just nasty how this can be abused to turn the country into a policestate.
It is just the start however, because according to Dutch law, when you accept a certain form of benefits or you are in a social renting house (which a majority of the country is), the municipality has got the right to search your house at any given time without a warrant.
C
cheesey
And in the uk if they stop and search and find drugs they dont need a warrent to search your house . They will take you home and have a look around . Happened to me a cpl of time when i was younger .
these laws are always brought in for so called very good reasons, but in the end they are always abused in history to harass the average man. people don't seem to realize the slippery slope they put them selves on to allow these things.
wow didn't know about the public housing thing either, that is majorly fucked up. i bet they did this by saying how people on social housing or on benefits, were running big drug selling or other criminal enterprises, never realizing that the law is the same as in a third world dictatorship. but more importantly forgetting that they were able to bust them and punish them fine with the old laws which say my house is my castle. sad to see even the Dutch slipping into this kind of mentality.
Gastro
Active member
This law isn't known by a majority of the public, i'd reckon that when you would confront people on the street about this they would be gobsmacked. It also helps that this law hasn't been used a lot and doesn't get a lot of media attention.
To give you an even better idea of what kind of police state The Netherlands actually is, the amount of phone taps is basically second to none. There are over 2000 telephonetaps every single day, these should be greenlighted by the Minister of Security which is technically impossible because then he won't be able to do the rest of his job, these exclude the phone taps made by the Secret Service and Military Secret Service. The amount of taps resembles the number of taps made in the U.S. (as far as we know since the information isn't publically available).
The UN actually warned The Netherlands about this and was stating that it could be an infringement of basic Human Rights. The UN was also questioning the practices surrounding the new RFID chipped passports and was wondering what happens with the fingerprints that are taken for these passports.
There is a lot of control and the government is quite addicted to these privacy invading efforts. Ironic is that when you get filmed robbing a store, jeweler etc, they have to censor the face of the robber because that is an infringement of privacy. When you are a normal citizen it appears to be no problem to have your privacy rights infringed...
A
astra007
CANADA
CANADA
the laws here federally have the same ideals as the major telephone companies are wiretapped to listen for certain key (RED TAG) words in all calls, they TRY to enter without a warrent, sometimes using force. i was a LEGAL grower and the RCMP kicked my door down while i was watching T.V. - no warning!
a lot of people get their rights trampled on; did you know that seaching your auto is illegal? or your person? i was at an U.S.A./CANADA border crossing when they pulled this one, leaving the usa.
Canada is NOT the promised land that many think. yes the city popo may turn a "blind eye" but not the FEDS and they use the D.E.A. of the usa and s.w.a.t. on many operations in British Columbia. now all outside areas are GPS marked on the prime and secondary grow areas so that they can pinpoint outdoor locations annually. the feds also have mounted flame throwers on their helicopters which they use on FIRST NATION as well as Crown lands.
CANADA
the laws here federally have the same ideals as the major telephone companies are wiretapped to listen for certain key (RED TAG) words in all calls, they TRY to enter without a warrent, sometimes using force. i was a LEGAL grower and the RCMP kicked my door down while i was watching T.V. - no warning!
a lot of people get their rights trampled on; did you know that seaching your auto is illegal? or your person? i was at an U.S.A./CANADA border crossing when they pulled this one, leaving the usa.
Canada is NOT the promised land that many think. yes the city popo may turn a "blind eye" but not the FEDS and they use the D.E.A. of the usa and s.w.a.t. on many operations in British Columbia. now all outside areas are GPS marked on the prime and secondary grow areas so that they can pinpoint outdoor locations annually. the feds also have mounted flame throwers on their helicopters which they use on FIRST NATION as well as Crown lands.
damn Man that last part is some freaky shit...They call it war.arm their equipment up with our money..Then we are just supposed to stand ther and take it???..I'm sorry that was incorrect..they want Us on our KNEES...
A
astra007
music festivals
music festivals
a little off topic but the same thing here in 2008 when 100 fed police tried to search a crowd of 5,000 plus at a major music festival here. the 1 thing they forgot was they were outnumbered 50 to 1 and the organizers were from the city. it was a 24/7 event and they finally left - overtime i guess.
the people of amsterdam will ralley if they push to far; i've been there in 2004 and getting hurt in the pocket will turn public awareness on. the dutch could always make ARUBA or one of their other colonies into a marijuana haven if forced too.
i heard that many of the seizures of bulk marijuana were from non dutch seed companies. some of the AN crew and bigbudmag people are there, everything seems to be nervously normal now.
music festivals
a little off topic but the same thing here in 2008 when 100 fed police tried to search a crowd of 5,000 plus at a major music festival here. the 1 thing they forgot was they were outnumbered 50 to 1 and the organizers were from the city. it was a 24/7 event and they finally left - overtime i guess.
the people of amsterdam will ralley if they push to far; i've been there in 2004 and getting hurt in the pocket will turn public awareness on. the dutch could always make ARUBA or one of their other colonies into a marijuana haven if forced too.
i heard that many of the seizures of bulk marijuana were from non dutch seed companies. some of the AN crew and bigbudmag people are there, everything seems to be nervously normal now.
Off topic?? your thread your call brudda..From here it looks like the Dutch government do not want our money..bills closing coffe shops to tourists, The 'raid' on the cup..And did I read they shut down the red light didtrict??? OMG That was my biggest regret.That I missed the window shoppin on my one mad dash to buy seeds there years ago...
E
elmanito
Only when they have permission of the judge-commissioner from what i know so next time just ask.
Namaste
there have been so many laws created in european countries over the last 10 years that arent even being used yet,,, many of them still hidden in so called "reform treaties" like the lisbon treaty,,
this stuff is scary for sure but the laws to do with martial law and what happens to peoples rights under these sort of circumstances are way scarier,,
talking things like, under martial law now if you dont take the states vaccination they can legally shoot you,, and this was one of thousands of laws written into effect only a few years ago,,,
why would the highest powers be creating all these new laws in our day and age, some that are to do with enforcing martial law,,,
sort of makes you think that shaking people up in some areas of amsterdam for possesion of ganja is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg,,
this stuff is scary for sure but the laws to do with martial law and what happens to peoples rights under these sort of circumstances are way scarier,,
talking things like, under martial law now if you dont take the states vaccination they can legally shoot you,, and this was one of thousands of laws written into effect only a few years ago,,,
why would the highest powers be creating all these new laws in our day and age, some that are to do with enforcing martial law,,,
sort of makes you think that shaking people up in some areas of amsterdam for possesion of ganja is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg,,
Hazy / Cheesey
Yep been there had the conviction.
No one here knows under what rules they went for the enforcement but on You Tube there is mention of permits etc...
We have all been at cups before where in the coffeeshop it wasn't considered polite to pull out large quantities of weed. Correct me if I am wrong but pretty sure it was due to the customers persoanl weight counting towards the 500g weight of the premises.
Who knows but since they had an issue with the permits maybe the HT crew had not correctly specified that each stall should be considered a premises under its own right in order to carry its own 500g therefore making the ROzzers deal with it as if the Melkweg and the HT crew only had a right to have 500g in total on the premises.
From the reporst I have seen they were taking the weed and weighing etc... but not charging individuals maybe they intend to pursue HT for in effect running a coffeeshop that exceeds 500g.
I think the HT crew have some liability if they knew their permit was being questioned to have informed the judges as well as competitors and also they should do more to correctly inform judges that they are only permited under the tolerance law to have 5g on their person. There is a tendency to promote the HT Cup in America and Canada as the home market of High Times Magazine as a long weekend away smoking weed where it is legal. There is a diferrence and with all the winging the Netherlands gets from other countries about its tolerance it is not that surprising that they should choose an event really run as an American event held in a friendly country to highlight the hypocriscy of the drug laws given the main political actors public world stance on the topic. If it was me as PM I would highlight it every year.
Yep been there had the conviction.
No one here knows under what rules they went for the enforcement but on You Tube there is mention of permits etc...
We have all been at cups before where in the coffeeshop it wasn't considered polite to pull out large quantities of weed. Correct me if I am wrong but pretty sure it was due to the customers persoanl weight counting towards the 500g weight of the premises.
Who knows but since they had an issue with the permits maybe the HT crew had not correctly specified that each stall should be considered a premises under its own right in order to carry its own 500g therefore making the ROzzers deal with it as if the Melkweg and the HT crew only had a right to have 500g in total on the premises.
From the reporst I have seen they were taking the weed and weighing etc... but not charging individuals maybe they intend to pursue HT for in effect running a coffeeshop that exceeds 500g.
I think the HT crew have some liability if they knew their permit was being questioned to have informed the judges as well as competitors and also they should do more to correctly inform judges that they are only permited under the tolerance law to have 5g on their person. There is a tendency to promote the HT Cup in America and Canada as the home market of High Times Magazine as a long weekend away smoking weed where it is legal. There is a diferrence and with all the winging the Netherlands gets from other countries about its tolerance it is not that surprising that they should choose an event really run as an American event held in a friendly country to highlight the hypocriscy of the drug laws given the main political actors public world stance on the topic. If it was me as PM I would highlight it every year.
Another thing folk might want to consider is the 'follow the money' aspect of the HT Cup. Other than tickets bought at the event all pre tickets are sold from the US and in Dollars. There is some laws regarding the passing of money through US servers during e-commerce and the activity is illegal charges can be filed. The evidence for this was displayed with some on line gambling websites that used to handle transactions in the US and it was deemed ilegal due to the states on-line gambling laws. Thats a bit of an aside though and something maybe folk should watch for when choosing how to pay for the tickets. However it shows that the bulk of the cash directly related to the HT Cup is actually an earner for the US economy and not the Dutch one, yes the Dutch economy benefits from the coffeeshop product and the Hotels / Food sold but it could easily be argued this would be sold anyway to tourists that would be more focused on a visit to the Netherlands and subsequently then also spend money in the museums and shops.
Personally I would say that a lot of the Judges I met from the US at the 2007 HTC that were smokers not in the business of weed were also doing the tours of the canals and museums so it may be a bit of a falacy on that one both by the DUtch authorities and those that think all the HT Judges only go for the smoke.
Personally I would say that a lot of the Judges I met from the US at the 2007 HTC that were smokers not in the business of weed were also doing the tours of the canals and museums so it may be a bit of a falacy on that one both by the DUtch authorities and those that think all the HT Judges only go for the smoke.
Only when they have permission of the judge-commissioner from what i know so next time just ask.
Namaste
or just refuse consent, don't just empty your pockets if they only ask you to, make them give a direct order at least. tell them you do not consent to any searches. the euro cops have become experts at formulating their requests to make it sound like it's an order and you have no choice in the matter. they will always say, well if you don't consent we'll have to take you in and search. but how could they actually justify that if they have no concrete suspicion of criminal activity in the first place. would be interested to hear if anyone tried to refuse the search at all?
A
astra007
laws
laws
my thread so if you want to talk about laws and stuff, feel free to do so. do you know that laws that were in effect 60 years ago can still be enforced. here we have a law library that open to the public; one day a week. (the other 6 days you cant) federal, provincial and municiple LAWS. like if you cannot produce $7 for a hotel night stay, you can be arrested for vagrancy! $7.00??? and this is still on the books even though we have homeless shelters.
last summer/fall, i was sitting in my home town park smoking a cigarette away from everyone else. i had a woman come up to me and scream about the tobacco smoke and then start up about phediphiles because i had my camera with me. she phoned the RCMP and i was questioned by an officer ( I waited) who wanted to know who i was, why i was there and what the camera was for; he was going to take it. i have lived in this area for half a century!
i politely informed him of my rights and asked him how he would enjoy being in the YUKON outback. i then told him to charge the woman with verbal abuse and that being disabled, i would attend the hearing. he refused, so i cell phoned the RCMP station and asked for the officer of the day or the sargent in charge. and the station commander appeared; quite a crowd of onlookers now and the local paper. i then told the reporter of the whole senerio - the article actually got written up in the vancouver provincial newspaper as a violation of rights under the privacy and freedom act of CANADA. im somewhat of a shit distrubber if riled up. i had fun that day as i told the commander i was smoking my legal meds NOT tobacco. the woman got arrested for hitting an officer - made her day eh? if you KNOW your rights; use them!
laws
my thread so if you want to talk about laws and stuff, feel free to do so. do you know that laws that were in effect 60 years ago can still be enforced. here we have a law library that open to the public; one day a week. (the other 6 days you cant) federal, provincial and municiple LAWS. like if you cannot produce $7 for a hotel night stay, you can be arrested for vagrancy! $7.00??? and this is still on the books even though we have homeless shelters.
last summer/fall, i was sitting in my home town park smoking a cigarette away from everyone else. i had a woman come up to me and scream about the tobacco smoke and then start up about phediphiles because i had my camera with me. she phoned the RCMP and i was questioned by an officer ( I waited) who wanted to know who i was, why i was there and what the camera was for; he was going to take it. i have lived in this area for half a century!
i politely informed him of my rights and asked him how he would enjoy being in the YUKON outback. i then told him to charge the woman with verbal abuse and that being disabled, i would attend the hearing. he refused, so i cell phoned the RCMP station and asked for the officer of the day or the sargent in charge. and the station commander appeared; quite a crowd of onlookers now and the local paper. i then told the reporter of the whole senerio - the article actually got written up in the vancouver provincial newspaper as a violation of rights under the privacy and freedom act of CANADA. im somewhat of a shit distrubber if riled up. i had fun that day as i told the commander i was smoking my legal meds NOT tobacco. the woman got arrested for hitting an officer - made her day eh? if you KNOW your rights; use them!
E
elmanito
I meant that they have to show the order if they can't show it, just refuse as Gaiusmarius said above.Beware of brutal behaviour of the cops if they don't understand what you mean.We have a saying here if you can't learn, just become a cop.
Namaste
wow, i have to admit i did not know this about the UK, Canada and The Netherlands...
Where else are the laws on personal searches as fucked as these?
this world is headed right for A NEW WORLD ORDER POLICE STATE.
