A5 S1 test Thread

[THC123]

And on top the exhaust on the oppsite side of the intake.

I sealed the tent at this point, the only intake being the tube. I did this to keep temps and RH as high a possible.

On the bottom, under the tarp, I made a 5 x 5 heating mat using cables and aluminum.

This raised temps better than the heating tube which frankly was a waste of money. It consumer 135 watts and increases temps by merely 1 degree with minimal exhaust.

A5 s1 recovering in mother room. New leaves already looked greener and thicker with bigger veins. They didn't feel like cardboard anymore.

Damaged a5 s1 leaf that was already light damaged 2 days after spraying with insecticide.

Happy brother mom 2 days after being sprayed from the same bottle, no problems.

 

[THC123]

Update part 8

Newly rooted white og clones that were also sprayed with the same bottle. Also no problems or burn.

FYI the liquid here on the leaves is a mix of water and Alfa Boost (organic growth enhancer with hormones)

Pssss anyone wanna buy some beer glasses? Need to get rid of them lol.


My makeshift temporary mother room. I recently put the lights higher as moms were growing but also cuz I needed extra room for pregrowing my vegetables and fruit plants.

Air intake and exhaust (passive) are located left from the Viparspectra in the upper right corner. There is not much air exchange, but enough to keep temps suitable for growing. The lamps work as heating (will install heating cables after summer). Co2 ppm without any active intake or exhaust here is constantly around 500 PPM. RH is constant 70-80% and temps 14-15 degrees (not under lights but on the sides).

They get 100-200 micromoles in this setup (depends where they are positioned. It is not ideal but it has everything to do with budget and not wanting to spend too much for keeping moms. This setup works very well if you don't need the moms to make cuts constantly. They actually grow well in this setup and faster than in the tent.

Temps are low here 15-18 degrees at soil level under the lamps. On the floor it is merely 14 degrees there. Now temps are higher cuz weather is warmer. So this is in no way a ideal setup, just cheap ass to preserve genetics. For the American readers, bear in mind that electricity here is about 5 times more expensive than in the U.S. that is why this setup is so cheap. I would rather spend more on flowering wattage.

But they thrive in here and have been in these pots for almost a year.

In spring and summer, when moms are outdoors, I will make a nice mother room there. Sadly this room is not suitable for flowering due to High RH. A dehumidifier won't work there (cant say too much lets just say this room isn't located inside the house , shhhh it is a secret.

This room was actually created for growing by my parents. Little did they know the relation between high RH and botrytis. They did not have internet at that time and everything was hearsay.

Too bad If I could control humidity there it would be the perfect flowering room after a good cleanup.

So that was it for the update of the 21st of March 2020.

After this I received my CO2 PPM meter and I made further adjustments.

My reasoning was as follows: the plants need higher temps to thrive and grow as fast as with HPS. Mainly because already the fluence runs too cool for my setup. I barely got to 22-24 degrees.

But with LED's because they don't emit lots of IR the leaf surface temperature is much lower than with the same temperature growing with HPS.

So i decided to raise temps, but also humidity as much as I could.

I wanted to get to 26-28 degrees and 60-80% humidity. Using exhaust or intake this was simply not possible. Not even with the heating in the house turned on.

So i lookd up lots of info and decided to make my own CO2 using yeast and sugar and nutrients.

I did not want to use the CO2 to get an extra yield, rather I wanted to use the CO2 so I could completely seal the tent (with daily venting of course) while maintaining at least ambient co2 levels.

At first I used 15min of/off for venting. This raised temps well but again the leaf tips started freaking out I think due to drastically changing RH levels when exhaust was on/off.

So I turned off ventilation and also sealed any tubes.

The co2 yeast generator worked surprisingly well and PPM's were always 800-1200. A bit on the high side, but it is difficult to control.

But I figured okay there is no shortage of co2 this way so It should work.

I was able to raise temps to 25-27 degrees and humidity to 60-80% (sometimes even higher so I had to open tent a bit.



Using this setup, and after receiving the dimmer and setting it to minimal, the plants recoverd and I had normal growth and colors. So I thought I found the solution for using this lamp in my situation. (emphasis on "thought").

This brings me to the next update which I will do later today.

Also received new beans in the mail today: 12 x a5 s1, 6x a5 x amnesia and 6 a5 x bandaid haze. These genetics deserve a fresh start !!! Even if I get them healthy this grow in no way will be representative of the genetics. They will get a new chance as soon as I figured out the problems I am having.

Please don't reply until all updates are finished. Have about I think 5-8 more posts to go.

 

[THC123]

Update from the 23rd of March

At this point tent was still not sealed but door of the room was a bit open with humidifiers trying to keep a good RH.

Leaves totally freaking out again.

This is a fresh healthy wog cut after 24 hours in the tent. Droopy and also the color already changed, no more fresh green shoots or nice shine.

These ere the conditions and co2 was fine. At that time it was really cold and with minimal exhaust and exhaust and intake in same room with door a bit open I got this temp.

 

[THC123]

Update 25th of March

This wog cut looks different than the one that was 24hrs in the tent.

The a5s are slowly recovering here, actuall becoming green lol

This a5 was placed in the mother room on the 23rd of march, she still looks toasted

 

[THC123]

The White Jones x GG mom further deteriorating, close to death

Update 2703
Difference between wog cut in mom room and one that was left in the tent for a few days (same batch)

Here you can clearly see what I mean with difference in color and how they always droop in the tent. They both weren't watered for 2 days. It looks like overwatering but it isn't

Left tent plant

right mom room plant

mom room plant

 

[THC123]

Tent plant

So now you can easily see the color difference and how the one from the tent just doesnt shine. It looks like it is depressed but hanging onto life cuz of a prozac prescription...

A few more to go, just gonna roll one quick and eat something and I'll continue. Want to get it over with lol. Hopefully Someone will have useful tips. I try to give as many details as I can.

 

[THC123]

This is the 29th, I received my dimmer a few days before and the plants started recovering with dimmer on lowest setting and lamp 80cm.

All leaves that had light stress before became brown and dried out by the spraying session few days prior.

 

[THC123]

Killer a5

One of the older light bleached leaves.

Still at this point I wa still not happy. By using the dimmer temperatures dropped quite a bit and again 18-20 degrees was about it and 22 when heating was on in the evening. (so with the heating tube and heating mat on 24/7 and ventilation 15 on off.


The leave tips were still sometimes acting weird. So I made more adjustments.

 

[THC123]

Update 03/04(adjustments were made fe days prior like 2 or 3

So I already turned the exhaust off but of course there was still an airflow coming from the intake tube to the exhaust.

It was still too cold with lights dimmed so low (and also at 100% it was not warm enough but doable) and humidity stayed 50-53 so I sealed the tent. They were going real slow.

I didn't hermetically seal the tent, I just placed the intake tube with its opening on the floor and I put aliminum foil over the exhaust. Of course this is not airtight but it made a big difference. So no more airflow. (I mean except of course a fan to mix the air in the tent and the co2 as well).

This helped a lot, so with:
the heatingtube,
20 metres of heating cables under the floor,
a hot heating mat (enhancing the heat from the tube)
, no exhaust or intake turned on
,plus exit and entrance
PLUS every opening in the tent totally sealed with tape;
I got to a comfortable 25-27 degrees depending on time of day.and 60-80% depending on how much water was in the bowl, the higher the level the quicker it went to the towels that were placed here heating cables ran and close to the heating tube.

There was an oscillating fan to mix the air, humidity was done with the towels (I hate this method but with this problem it is the only thing that doesnt irritate the leaves).

It's a mess with this method and you have to change the towel often. But hey I was doing whatever to make em happy.

They really grew a lot quicker like this and no more annoyed leaves and a green color. Real green. They were finally recovering and growing fast. I was getting optimistic

Once or twice per day I vented the tent for 15 minutes to have fresh oxygen and who knows what else they need thats in fresh air. For the rest, CO2 was provided using sugar and yeast.

This method (I tested it before I sealed the tent of course) worked surprisingly well, and it isn't so hard to maintain a pretty steady (though of course not like a controller) CO2 ppm if you time making new batches and refills for old ones and shake it once or twice per day. PPM's were 900-1200 all the time and when I shook them it rose even higher.

On the picture here PPM was 1250 but me breathing in there has a big influence as well. If I stay for a while it rises above 2000.

Still need to get it down 100% apparently, when I turned off the exhaust I noticed that 2 bottles were sizzling pretty hard and constant.

 

[THC123]

Those smelled like real good liqiour as I added berries. I almost wanted to taste lol. The other ones that also produced co2, though didn't sizzle non stop smelled more like yeast.

This method is also a mess as there is quite a smell...but co2 bottles + controllers are for later when I get this LED shit down.

Still it is interesting if you combine it with actual brewing. After smelling that one jar I really want to try. It looks like shit but it smelled like real fucking good liquor, tropical berries . I grow lots of berries many different kind so would be nice to be able to make that and also ethanol for disinfection for seed germing utensils etc..

I used turbo yeast for wine, nutrient salts, sugar and other stuff that is too old to eat because they eat just about anything. And also a few drops of vinegar or lemon juice.

Ok back to the A5 cross in the tent. Here a few pictures that show recovery. The old damaged leaves had been pruned off 2-3 days prior.

The white stuff isn't mildew, it is the perlite, I added it to prevent splashes to bounce back from the soil onto the leaves to prevent leaf septoria. Something I have been struggling with for 10 years.

I also ordered a par meter because not knowing what my plants were getting was making me crazy.

When I measured how much they were getting I was shocked. It was 43-52 micromol depending on where I measured.

This is nothing....they were looking a lot better when I changed the conditions. Temps were higher and more than enough co2 (even though temps are not optimal for that amount of co2). Plus I mean haha 50 micromol lol wtf.

So I dialed it up so they got 100 -110 miromol. I realize this is a 100% increase, but I mean any plant should be able to handle a mere 100 micromol right? More on that in the last update.

 

[THC123]

Some more recovering a5 pics

Green colors, I cannot believe it lol.

Some newly rooted white og( gonna make a new topic for her later this week) pregrowing in 3.5 litres while I order a new growing light. In the background the moms just had their bush shaved.

All plants in the tent and in the mother room have received an army of predators. Green laceing larvae. They work better than predator mites.

They have been under 170-200 micromol here and have no problems whatsoever. Why the fuck do the plants in the other tent almost die with 100? It boggles my mind.

Ok guys, I will do the last bit tomorrow Its late I'm too "tired" .

 

[YukonKronic]

Are there cold drafts in there? It seems unlikely but the damage looks exactly like freezing... I often have to deal with icy drafts in my garden and it results in very very similar leaf damage..

Definitely a bit of a head scratcher..

 

[THC123]

No the tent is located in my former bedroom in my house. In winter and up untill one week ago, it was about 15-16 degrees at night at the lowest point (when I went to bed and turned off heating). During the day without heating it was about 17-18 (with windows open and sun shining). And at night with heating on it was 19-20 degrees in that room. And inside the tent it was warmer. Well there was a "draft", namely the passive intake tube, but I always have that, can't be the reason.

And of course the main reason I think for this drama is me pushing the plants in the beginning. I think they got about 5-600 micromoles in the beginning as small plants(didnt have a par meter then). I listed to the advice of a buddy of mine.

Before I had my lamps about 60 cm from canopy cuz the lamp was new and I wanted to be careful. But he convinced me to lower the lights, even lower than the recommended position (because they ran so cool). It was real stupid and I should have listened to my gut feeling plus I already read quite a lot about them and we use the 660w at work.

But I did it because they were growing slower than I was used to. Stupid me. I think because of this, the a5 and the cross will never be able to handle the fluence (well never is a strong word but nt without weeks and weeks of rehabilitation.). They are just too damaged I think as licht bleaching so early in their life cycle has devastating effects...

That of course doesn't take away that new plants that are introduced in the tent still look weird.

It is obvious I need to learn how to photo acclimatize them properly in my situation. Like for example now, with good weather and heating tube + cables I have 27 degree with minimal ventilation, which is perfect. I am testing one plant now in there. A white jones cross that was super healthy to see if she starts drooping now or change colors. The a5 and cross are have been chilling in the greenhouse now with supplemental lighting untill 22 o clock. They will stay there untill unday because then weather will change again from spring to winter lol (sunday 21 degrees, monday 12 degrees ).

ANd I need to find an affordable way to get the conditions I want with the cold lamp. Now, in spring and summer they will be perfect but in winter it is a challenge to get good conditions without using 2000W of power.

Because of the good weather I changed my setup again, so no more sealed tent and minimal exhaust. Temp is good now 27 degrees RH is low again, 30%. We'll see.

Last update coming this evening cuz now the sun is shining and got me some vegetables to grow

I hope everyone will be able to follow all the updates because it is a lot on info, sorry....

 

[THC123]

Update 01.04

Plants in the tent were nicely recovering after sealing tent and diming the lights. Plants started growing fast due to elevated RH and temps

New shoots were finally light green and shining, I thought I was on track and that the problem had been solved.(haha)

These shoots look like the shoots from my outdoor plants or normal healthy plants

Here you can see the difference in color between the new shoots and the older shoots that were developped before the dimmer came and conditions were changed.

So because they were recovering, about one week later, because 50 micromol really is too little light, I increased light to 100 micromol using the dimmer and the par meter.

I don't think this is an extreme increase 50 --> 100 micromol for plants that age?

Plus the a5 in the mother room were taking 170-200 micromol withut problems and were recovering under this.

Well see what happened in the next post

 

[THC123]

Update part 1000.000 (last update lol)

Not even 12 hours after increasing micromol from about 50 to 100 I noticed yellowing, so I dialied it back to 50, then increased 20% each day. SO 50-60-72- etc.

Other conditions were 25-27 sometimes 28 degrees and 60-80% RH and 1000-1200 CO2

I got to 72 micromol again and then pulled the plants out of the tent and put them in the greenhouse because this happened after 2-3 days in total:

Look at how much big damage they got in such a short time.....and at such low light intensities......

They got droopy and sad and yellow again...sigh!!! This is not overwatering what you see here!

Look here, this was only 61 micromoles...... the fuck? How can I get light bleaching?? Plus the fixture was 4 times the recommended distance so 80 cm from canopy instead of 18-30 cm.

So now I am in a situation were I have all the meters I need so I know what the plants are getting. All this info makes what I am seeing even more confusing. At home I never used meters before, normally growing is easy...

I did a new test few days ago. I took a healthy, well established cut of a plant that had been under 170 micromol in the mother room. Afterwards she was outdoors for a few days getting 1000+ micromoles (ok the sun isnt comparable but still).

I then put this cut in the tent under 170 micromoles, so she got the same light intensity as under which she became a nice healthy plant. Exhaust vented in same room as tent, intake coming from other room with window open, minimal exhaust, ambient co2 of 470-500.

24 hours later--> yellowing........

I will do ONE final test now with another healthy cut.

I don't think this could be a reason, but what I will try in this final test is doing my usual setup when I have lights that don't run so cool. So I will now take the exhaust tube and vent it in another room with window open and the intake will now come from the room were tent is also with window open (this is possible now due to nice warm weather).

I'll post what happened to these cuts next update.

But I am puzzled. I am a logical person and when I can't find the logic for the cause of my problem it drives me crazy because how can I find a solution if I don't exactly understand what is going on. It has to do with the light, that I am sure of, but what exactly it is, I don't know. The spydrx is supposed to be a good lamp so I must really be missing something.

I understand bleaching come from a too high light intensity or a too sudden increase, but after reading the numbers, do you think this is the case here? I don't think so?

First I thought the a5, the white jones x gg, the white og and the a5 cross had these problems because they ere exposed to the light before I had the dimmer.

But after the tests I see I have problems as well with established plants grown under another LED. Plants that never had the initial high ppfd abuse. And as soon as they move from location and go under same light intensity under the fluence, they just yellow up faster than you can say cannabis.

So yeah at this point, and especially with regard to future grows (for this one I have given up on the lamp) I need to figure this out. So any help or experiences or tips are very welcome. If I have forgotten to post essential details just ask.

The only positive thing though: by removing the first 5 internodes from the cross and training the a5 and the cross, they are all still at exactly the same height which is perfect for flowering.

Help a brother out!! Plants happy = me happy. It is really bugging me. Normally the growing part is easy. Also a shame for all the money I spent on the lamp. I was happy to have a cool lamp (temperature I mean) and I was looking forward to growing sticky buds without any heat stress... The plants were supposed to be flowering already.....

Next update the 2 new side by side clone tests and recovery photos of the a5 and the cross. The bleached leaves in these pics died off but the rest is reovering niely (the sun is doing miracles, god I love the sun).

Well, this grow went to 12/12 from seed to 8+ weeks of vegging to get them healthy fast.....

But the main update is finished so feel free to write down your tips or insights.....before I contact Fluence and make a fool out of myself maybe someone sees something I missed???

 

[nickman]

Looking better...!!!...

 

[THC123]

Yeah but still this is a drama...

Is there anyone who could tell me how to fix the problem?

It has to do with light and bleaching already shows at barely 100 micromoles.......

 

[RoyalFlush]

Yeah but still this is a drama...

Is there anyone who could tell me how to fix the problem?

It has to do with light and bleaching already shows at barely 100 micromoles.......

If you think it's the light then change it, ebay has cheap HID lights that work very well.

What are you feeding them??

I noticed the same thing with my A5s1's at first, I also noticed that they start to darken up abit during the last few hours of lights on.

 

[THC123]

I have this with all plants not just the a5. An HID is not an option for me as here electricity is 5 times more expensive. If I use an hID, I would need airco to prevent heat stress and drop in quality in a growtent. IMO growtents are totally not suited for growing with HID lights.

But yeah I am changing the light. But this doesnt change the fact that I NEED to find out what is going on. I mean these lamps were supposed to be one of the best. I talked to a few fluence growers an many say that even with the dimmer, the lights need to be way farther from the canopy compated to the values in the manual.

I am feeding them rock dust(lava meal) worm castings and they got one veg tab about 3 weeks ago. They will get another one soon and also later one or 2 flower tabs. I give them a theaspoon of rock dust and worm castings every week (and they also get extra bacteria via watering once per 2 weeks plus a kelp and yeast based root and vitality stimulator with hormones etc..).

 

[THC123]

The a5 have totally recovered and are looking normal green and healthy. Finally!! 2 weeks in the greenhouse worked miracles!

The a5 x sknk x hph have also recovered well!! The few branches that are still stunted due to previous lightstress will be allowed to stay on the plant for now so I can take cuttings.

The plants have become a bit too big so I'll have to cut away a little bit to make everything fit in the tent. Feels good to have plant growing normal again.

Also did a new test with 3 other plants: a white jones x gg cut, a gambian landrace mom and a Happy brother x gg mom. Have been under the fluence for 4 days now.

I did not follow fluence's advice, but the reports from many grower on the net. SO basically treat it like a quantum board. Keep lights far away in the beginning and turn up the dimmer. If I use the recmmended distance by Fluence they will cause light bleaching at more than 50 micromol. Their customer service said I should keep the lamp at 6-18 inches at all times, and the dimmer was supposed to take care of the light bleaching. Well, it didn't distance still needs to be greater in the beginning.

Doing this I was able to go to 80% power at a distance of 120-80 cm (depending on the plant, I took 3 different sizes of plants for this test.

They are now at 250-300 micromol and doing fine, except the white jones cross. It doesnt have bleaching but looks weird.

Still, I see that compared to HPS, outdoors, or even the cheap viparspectra, the plants don't look so vital or healthy under this light . I immediately see the difference, it is like they really don't like this light.

Update will be done today or tomorrow. The a5 will be put back indoors under the cheap viparspectras this weekend. I am really not comfortable with trying to put them under the fluence again. And after a few days I will switch them to 12/12.

WIth the exhaust running again I am having problems keeping RH up, 30% - 40 % is the most I can get with humidifier turned on. ALso now the humidifier doesnt bother the new plants anymore, no more twisting leaves(due to higher hanging distance and no lightstress)