A talk about sourcing proper hoses

[malendro]

Do hoses have to be of the conductive PTFE kind? Or is this overkill?

 

[Gray Wolf]

PTFE is the best elastomer for the process and the Chinese thumb cuff stainless overbraiding gives it the burst strength required.

Before we began doing ultra low temperature extractions, we used Nylon or Kevlar lined refrigeration hoses and Viton seals.

 

[malendro]

Im afraid my question was not clear enough

PTFE hoses with steel overbraiding are available with two kinds of PTFE:

Virgin PTFE, which is non-conductive and usually white/gray

And

PTFE infused with carbon-black, which is conductive, and is black.

Does anybody here know what kind of PTFE is in your hoses?

Conductive PTFE is a bit less available than the virgin counterpart, and I'm still waiting for a couple of quotes in order to see if they are mor expensive. Which I believe they are

 

[flatslabs]

The hoses I use are regular PTFE (white) non-conductive. It is not necessarily virgin PTFE just because it is white, it could be from recycled materials.

The conductive stuff is usually used in fuel hoses for static-discharge purposes, I am not sure if this is as big of a concern on a system under vacuum and not exposed to atmosphere or explosive conditions.


On another note, I recently upgraded my mkiii lid to one with a 3/8" recovery port and got a 3/8" PTFE steel hose, was using 1/4 everywhere before. What combination of fittings are you guys using to adapt the female 3/8 NPT hose to the 1/4 flare on the filter drier on my pump.

 

[malendro]

Sounds like you need a:

3/8" male-NPT to 1/4" female-JIC adapter.

I think I will be buying a similar one from Parker, they have them in brass and stainless.

Please tell me who made you a hose with female-NPT ends. Nobody has wanted to build such a hose for me.

I ended up embracing the standard and now i plan for JIC adapters everywhere

 

[Gray Wolf]

Im afraid my question was not clear enough

PTFE hoses with steel overbraiding are available with two kinds of PTFE:

Virgin PTFE, which is non-conductive and usually white/gray

And

PTFE infused with carbon-black, which is conductive, and is black.

Does anybody here know what kind of PTFE is in your hoses?

Conductive PTFE is a bit less available than the virgin counterpart, and I'm still waiting for a couple of quotes in order to see if they are mor expensive. Which I believe they are

Non conductive.

 

[flatslabs]

Sounds like you need a:

3/8" male-NPT to 1/4" female-JIC adapter.

I think I will be buying a similar one from Parker, they have them in brass and stainless.

Please tell me who made you a hose with female-NPT ends. Nobody has wanted to build such a hose for me.

I ended up embracing the standard and now i plan for JIC adapters everywhere

Sorry, it is a little early for me. I meant 3/8" Female JIC to 1/4 flare on my filter drier

 

[malendro]

I think i found it bro

3$ at Buy Fittings Online

Female Flare To Male Flare - A=1/4" (7/16-20) Female Flare, B=3/8" (5/8-18) Male Flare, C=1.05" (26.6mm) Length

Note that their fittings are all JIC, so if your hose has a 3/8" SAE end, it wont be compatible.

 

[Pangea]

I have another couple of questions guys

First about hose end fitting materials:

What other materials besides stainless steel are acceptable?

Non stainless fittings seem to be very popular in hydraulic hose applications with plated steel or brass being around 10 times cheaper than the same end in SS. Would any of these materials be potentially hazardous? What is the need to stick to SS?

Someone please clear my memory up because i cant find the source of this: although I have seen recommendations to use stainless steel everywhere because it is more sanitary, I think i have also read a thread around here complaining that stainless-on-stainless sealing surfaces where causing leaks.



Regarding hose diameter and length:

Anybody thought about using 1/2" hoses? For recovery specially?
I believe this would be very beneficial for passive setups.

And what about shortening the length of this recovery hose?
Between a 4ft and a 6ft hose could i see significant improvements when running passive? Active?
Is a shorter hose better than having an extra 2ft of gravity?
Would you say that those 2 extra feet come in handy in a way you wouldn't like to do without them?

Also, is there a reason why we stick with SAE (45) fittings? Are these the same fittings found in vacuum pumps,refrigerant pumps, and refrigerant tanks?

Finally, I have seen some MNPT fittings with swivel and wanted to pose the question. If using this threaded directly to the 3/8 valve instead of using a flared fitting would be more recommendable?

Bump on those questions. ^

I'm getting my hoses figured out, and finally figured the steps to not have to use any swivels on hoses/fittings where there is oil laden butane, but to connect to the pumps requires flared fittings and one end does not connect to a clamped fitting, so as gray wolf pointed out one needs a swivel for those points. My main question is, do the swivel fittings need to be/should they be stainless steel, specifically at points not exposed to oil laden butane, such as at the pump and recovery tank.

I plan on ordering the Unisource PTFE tubes from amazon.

The cheapest SS swivel adapters I could find are at discounthydrohose. Each 1/2" swivel fitting is more than a 5' x 1/2" hose.

I am trying to use 1/2" hoses everywhere. I'm going to be using a CPS-TR21 which has 1/4" ports or 3/8"(not sure if they just come with bushings or what) so Im going to bush it out to 1/2" in and out. Should I keep using a SS braided PTFE lined hose between the recovery pump and refrigeration tank? If not, what is commonly used? I found a tank at centurytool that has 1/2" ACME fittings, I think this tank is okay, it doesnt have a yellow top though? I haven't been able to find a 1/2" acme to 1/2"FNPT in ss or brass.

 

[Humpi]

I know this post is for closed loop hoses. But would these hoses work with a Robinaire 15800? I'm not sure which hoses to get to connect my pump to my oven.

Thanks

 

[learningta]

First about hose end fitting materials:

What other materials besides stainless steel are acceptable?

Non stainless fittings seem to be very popular in hydraulic hose applications with plated steel or brass being around 10 times cheaper than the same end in SS. Would any of these materials be potentially hazardous? What is the need to stick to SS?

The big one is that it won't corrode and (potentially) contaminate anything. For small-time extractors the inclusion of brass or bronze isn't likely to be a big deal, but you won't see those materials as components in a system that could or would be inspected by a health inspector for that reason.

Someone please clear my memory up because i cant find the source of this: although I have seen recommendations to use stainless steel everywhere because it is more sanitary, I think i have also read a thread around here complaining that stainless-on-stainless sealing surfaces where causing leaks.

I've done a bit of stainless machining, and the big problem with stainless is that it work hardens and galls (gall = destructive rubbing). Thus, the need for a thread sealant that will provide enough lubrication to keep the surfaces sliding past each other from trashing each other and wrecking or cold-welding the threaded portions together. I've had trouble getting Rectorseal #7 to seal up completely but no problem with Rectorseal #5. Lots of people use tape instead of paste and I can see where improper application could cause problems - especially if you wind it on against the rotation of the fitting instead of winding it on where tightening the fitting tightens the tape.

Stainless doesn't have this problem when paired with non-stainless components - a set of YJ hoses I bought had stainless portions where the butane flowed, and brass threaded portions that didn't actually come into contact with the inside of the hoses or flow of butane.

 

[Gray Wolf]

We use stainless fittings. If brass, it needs to be lead free brass.

 

[flatslabs]

I have tried searching and read through the terpenation station thread but I guess I missed the answer to this question.

I am using all JIC flares on the mkiii, with a 3/8" JIC braided recovery hose.
My filter drier has 1/4" flare connection, which I assume is SAE.

Whats the best way to get from a 3/8" JIC male flare to my 1/4 filter drier.

Currently I rigged up a 3/8 JIC flare to 1/4MNPT -> 1/4 Ball Valve -> 1/4 MNPT to 1/4 SAE flare -> 6" hose -> filter drier just to get me up and running, but I feel there is something easier I am missing, without switching to 3/8 SAE fittings on my hoses.

 

[Dab Strudel]

High Stakes Toke, thanks for the webpage, process hose seem legit. Going all stainless, got npt all the way around and jic for the ones that don't connect to the system. Now I have to figure out what filter dryer I want to use and see what conversion I need for my 3/8 mnpt... any suggestions on a good (maybe rebuildable) filter?

 

[Pangea]

I thought JIC and SAE are compatible, even the 37 to 45 degree?

JIC female seat accepts both JIC (37 degree) and SAE (45 degree) flare fittings in the following sizes: 4, 5, 8 and 10

Size 6 is 3/8" so I guess that messes with a lot of peoples setups.

Im looking at emerson flow EK08 series filters, not sure if its suitable but thats where Im at.

For my 1/2" recovery tank ACME fitting issue the closest Ive found to a suitable adapter is the, Yellow Jacket 19160, its a 1/2"ACME male x 1/2" Female Flare, its brass and Im not sure if the tanks fittings are female or male.......

I have not found any ACME 1/2" fittings in stainless in the 1/2" size, let alone an adapter.

I found a 3/8" JIC F x 1/2"JIC M bushings to get the 3/8" fittings on the pumps to 1/2" but they are $40 each... discounthydro doesnt have them though they have a reducer 1/2 JIC F x 3/8 JIC M for $11, FFS!!

Anyone know of a better ACME adapter, or lead free brass JIC bushings?

 

[flatslabs]

I found a 3/8 JIC (6) to 1/4 JIC flare to flare adapter, but only in carbon steel, not stainless.
This would let you go from your 3/8 JIC hose to a 1/4 JIC hose to an SAE fitting on your pump / drier, but I am not sure if carbon steel is good to go

 

[malendro]

dude, avoid carbon steel.

its not good. I was in your shoes two weeks ago.

 

[malendro]

I decided to buy my hoses from Process Hose, I decided to get most hoses of 1/4" and one 3/8" for the return line. I also had them made with the silicone cover since it was available at marginal cost. These people had the best prices, and you could also order them online, not many different configuration options, but just the right ones for what most of us might want.

 

[Pangea]

Thanks for the heads up on ProcessHose, roughly half the price than that of my local swaglock, and a couple bucks less than Hose Master on amazon.

Fucking ACME adapter is proving to be the toughest to locate.

 

[hobb3s93]

what are the advantages to using to using ss hose?
ptfe lining ? or is everyone here running "cryo"?

tried distilling for the first time yestrday. i 2 had ss 1/4in hoses running from my mt-69 and the one from the mt-69 to the liquid valve on rc tank. as soon as i opened the valve i had a massive leak on the rc tank connection .then i could hear the mt-69 hissing too kus it was in a bucket.

switched them over to cheap harbor freight hoses and the leaks stopped. i feel like before everyone switched to ss hoses, people were using yellowjacket and justbetter. are these safe to run or will i corrode the interior to quickly?

also having a problem finding 3/8 jic fittings, really surprised rsd didnt have anything.