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As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.
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ICMag and The Vault are running a NEW contest in October! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
americans aint gonna do shit, but take it in the ass from our elected officials. we need drastic measures not some useless protests that they laugh at.
There are some who believe that the instability in our global economy is a symptom of the pending energy crisis. Without alternative energy sources to replace the massive amounts of fossil fuel we currently use, the carrying capacity of our planet earth is far less than the 7 Billion living here now. The terminal 'layoff' of 2 to 3 Billion people over a 50 year period would no doubt be a time of violence, starvation, and illness on a scale never seen before in the history of man. And yet we have the potential, the technical and logistical resources, to feed everyone on the planet, end suffering and live in peace. Remain positive!
Have you checked the crowds lately? 1300 protest spots in the US and over 3000 globally. IMO, the only folks laughing are those who like tops down policies. According to media reports, there's no defining demographic in this crowd. Lots of college graduates with no employment but it's bigger than that.
But I can understand. Folks that don't like this sort of thing might be feeling a little uncomfortable right now.
wiesseweed
Member
i think the media is completely downplaying the situation at hand. there is absolutely zero relevant discussion within US media about the state of affairs. it's like they just hope to sweep it all under the rug, meanwhile obama is cracking down on the one thing that can uplift this country out of this mess. what a joke.
The next 10-15 years will determine the real future of the human race. There are so many factors to take into account, it would be too much to type. At this point you should look into self sufficient farming, the ability to protect what is yours, and to develop a lifeboat network.
-Funk
-Funk
komrade komura
Active member
The tipping point has been reached...riots in Rome today.
Time to get off the sofa and count. A slave revolt at last...
WWTDD (What would Tyler Durden Do?)
Time to get off the sofa and count. A slave revolt at last...
WWTDD (What would Tyler Durden Do?)
We are already past the tipping point, just no one in the government or media is talking about it. Just like we are already past peak oil, but the oil companies won't tell you that. America doesn't even really exist anymore as you knew it. America is just another easily bought and controlled globalist corporation with over 200 million employees/citizens/slaves.
The problem is everyone wants to eat the food, but no one wants to grow it. America was once a nation of farmers. We've replaced good old hard work and families with petroleum-run automated farms, loans, debt, and intellectual property rights.
When all hell breaks loose, I'm not reaching for a gun, I'm headed for the mountains and reaching for a hoe and a shovel and I'm planting my seeds (not just cannabis). Someone has to feed all you fuckers...you think China will do it? or subsidized GMO corn?
Keep eating your McDonalds...
The problem is everyone wants to eat the food, but no one wants to grow it. America was once a nation of farmers. We've replaced good old hard work and families with petroleum-run automated farms, loans, debt, and intellectual property rights.
When all hell breaks loose, I'm not reaching for a gun, I'm headed for the mountains and reaching for a hoe and a shovel and I'm planting my seeds (not just cannabis). Someone has to feed all you fuckers...you think China will do it? or subsidized GMO corn?
Keep eating your McDonalds...
Oh and all the protests, etc...someone said Napoleon and the French revolution...these are all manipulated happenings. The Rothschilds totally manipulated Napoleon and the French revolution, just like they manipulated the masses to vote for Obama under the guise of "Hope" and "Change".
People are easy to manipulate in large numbers, group think. Especially when you take something away from people and leave them wanting/needing, i.e. food, wealth, jobs, social protections, etc. Read Machiavelli, same tactics being used over and over again. Its not hard to go out and find a group of 10 or 20 young people, pay them, and get them to protest the streets for what is seemingly an opposing point of view. Before you know it, they will have tons of followers. In fact this is exactly how the first world war began...
One sniper in the right place can change the course of history far more than a million protestors flipping cars over, smashing out storefronts, and throwing molotov cocktails at riot squads.
People are easy to manipulate in large numbers, group think. Especially when you take something away from people and leave them wanting/needing, i.e. food, wealth, jobs, social protections, etc. Read Machiavelli, same tactics being used over and over again. Its not hard to go out and find a group of 10 or 20 young people, pay them, and get them to protest the streets for what is seemingly an opposing point of view. Before you know it, they will have tons of followers. In fact this is exactly how the first world war began...
One sniper in the right place can change the course of history far more than a million protestors flipping cars over, smashing out storefronts, and throwing molotov cocktails at riot squads.
Tuhder
Member
Supermanlives
Oh rly? Im willing to bet you don't entirely believe that statement but are just angry and have found a place to spill it.
I does not take a group, It just take's individuals, Everyone acting on their own accord. OP, the real deal is coming. Everyone knows it.
If you do not sense it coming, You have been enslaved by the system, You have lost your humanity, Your spirit has abandoned you and you are no longer a part of the human conscious.
Expect us.
Oh rly? Im willing to bet you don't entirely believe that statement but are just angry and have found a place to spill it.
I does not take a group, It just take's individuals, Everyone acting on their own accord. OP, the real deal is coming. Everyone knows it.
If you do not sense it coming, You have been enslaved by the system, You have lost your humanity, Your spirit has abandoned you and you are no longer a part of the human conscious.
Expect us.
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guest86120975
With all above points duly noted for momentary discussion,
This is something I've been wondering about for a while. I am pretty clueless about economics, but, something I have always wondered is... If humans created money, why can't we just create an unlimited amount and everyone on EArth will be comfortable forever? I know, I know, creating money out of thin air that's not backed by gold, blah blah blah.... but I challenge you to move beyond the Ron Paul BS .. We have money for goods and services, but, take this for example.....we presently HAVE the technological ability and the actual resources (materials, rocket fuel, scientists, etc....not money) to build a city on the moon if we so wished. And it's not like there would be any shortage of enthusiastic scientists working very hard to do it. But, we don't have the moooney... but yet, at the same time, there is this artificial barrier that we have weighed ourselves down with...money...so yea, that's something I have a hard time understanding really.... If we have an economic collapse worldwide, where does all this precious money even go? Does it just go into some sort of vacuum and hang there in suspended animation? I mean WTF, it looks like if we would just kind of ...ya know, eliminate money (at least as we know the concept now) that things would be so much better and progressive in the world. I mean WTF, don't you guys see what I'm saying here? It's like 99% of all human lives and activities are designed around money, discussions about money, arguments about money, and jobs about money (lawyers, accountants, IRS, etc etc). So what happens when we get rid of money, well, the United States alone has enough food to feed the entire world, so it's not like there is a REAL shortage of food in the world......we have the physical resources to do amazing things but are only limited by this stupid fake barrier we have created upon ourselves.... does any of this make sense or ....
This is something I've been wondering about for a while. I am pretty clueless about economics, but, something I have always wondered is... If humans created money, why can't we just create an unlimited amount and everyone on EArth will be comfortable forever? I know, I know, creating money out of thin air that's not backed by gold, blah blah blah.... but I challenge you to move beyond the Ron Paul BS .. We have money for goods and services, but, take this for example.....we presently HAVE the technological ability and the actual resources (materials, rocket fuel, scientists, etc....not money) to build a city on the moon if we so wished. And it's not like there would be any shortage of enthusiastic scientists working very hard to do it. But, we don't have the moooney... but yet, at the same time, there is this artificial barrier that we have weighed ourselves down with...money...so yea, that's something I have a hard time understanding really.... If we have an economic collapse worldwide, where does all this precious money even go? Does it just go into some sort of vacuum and hang there in suspended animation? I mean WTF, it looks like if we would just kind of ...ya know, eliminate money (at least as we know the concept now) that things would be so much better and progressive in the world. I mean WTF, don't you guys see what I'm saying here? It's like 99% of all human lives and activities are designed around money, discussions about money, arguments about money, and jobs about money (lawyers, accountants, IRS, etc etc). So what happens when we get rid of money, well, the United States alone has enough food to feed the entire world, so it's not like there is a REAL shortage of food in the world......we have the physical resources to do amazing things but are only limited by this stupid fake barrier we have created upon ourselves.... does any of this make sense or ....
rootfingers
Active member
Yup, money is just a way to divide up resources and an unfair one at that. We do not need their banks or money or ideology or any of that shit. This is the true revolution, and has been happening for a long time. All we have to do is change our minds, thats it.
In a representative government the people ARE the government so to hate the government is to hate yourself. Better to love yourself enough to make the changes necessary than just kill yourself and hope a phoenix rises from the ashes.
In a representative government the people ARE the government so to hate the government is to hate yourself. Better to love yourself enough to make the changes necessary than just kill yourself and hope a phoenix rises from the ashes.
Tuhder
Member
Whoa Whoa wHOA! Stop the fuckin presses!
Surely you could not be insinuating that we as citizens of the planet earth are all equals?
Sadly the human race starves for power, control and self satisfaction.
How can I be better than you if we all drive the same electric vehicle, All live in the same modest home, All have the same food reserves, All have the same opportunities?
Even if you surpass the monetary system this cycle of greed will start over with knowledge, Im smarter than you so that makes me better than you. Im bigger, Stronger and faster than you so that means your defenseless against my will. I can force you to submit, So that means you are a lesser human than I.
This mind set of me better than you is our real problem. Position's of power lead to a hierarchy in the human race, Mix that with religion and you have what we have now.
Not only am I better, richer and more powerful than you, To top it all off you picked the wrong God! Which makes you worthless here on earth and worthless in the afterlife.
To devalue any human being is to devalue yourself. We are all born of this earth, We are all made of the same, We are all equal.
Thats why fight club was such a great movie, It showed us a glimpse of humanity being truly free from the oppression of not only monetary corruption, But the corruption of the human mind.
Surely you could not be insinuating that we as citizens of the planet earth are all equals?
Sadly the human race starves for power, control and self satisfaction.
How can I be better than you if we all drive the same electric vehicle, All live in the same modest home, All have the same food reserves, All have the same opportunities?
Even if you surpass the monetary system this cycle of greed will start over with knowledge, Im smarter than you so that makes me better than you. Im bigger, Stronger and faster than you so that means your defenseless against my will. I can force you to submit, So that means you are a lesser human than I.
This mind set of me better than you is our real problem. Position's of power lead to a hierarchy in the human race, Mix that with religion and you have what we have now.
Not only am I better, richer and more powerful than you, To top it all off you picked the wrong God! Which makes you worthless here on earth and worthless in the afterlife.
To devalue any human being is to devalue yourself. We are all born of this earth, We are all made of the same, We are all equal.
Thats why fight club was such a great movie, It showed us a glimpse of humanity being truly free from the oppression of not only monetary corruption, But the corruption of the human mind.
when the lights go out and the water is turned off, cell phones and internet is shut down, and all the food has been bought by people with cash---FEMA doesn't show up to help you, united nations troops in the streets---what will you eat and drink? gas has been unavailable for weeks, even if you have enough money to buy it. trains are not running and the airports are only allowing UN flights. hospitals have used all the fuel for their emergency generators and they are shutting down. corner drug stores are boarded up, and medicine is becoming increasingly harder to find. how will you get away from where you're at when this happens?
firemen and police have left their jobs to be with their families. house fires are totally destructive as a result. there are people forming gangs ravaging whole neighborhoods, stealing, killing, raping---squatting in homes they have taken over. you can't call the police for help. depending on where you live will determine how you respond to these events. the key thing is to try to be as prepared as you can be to survive this total collapse of government and the violence that will surely come.
take note that most large american cities are surrounded by a "loop" or "beltway". trying to disobey orders and escape from large cities will be difficult with UN troops patrolling these highways with inspection stations at every on-ramp and exit. but you can't stay where you are and survive. you have to get away from the city. some how. some way. its your only chance.
some people will have had the foresight to prepare and have water and a few weeks of food, but what will they do when they run out? many people don't have the skills to survive long term on their own. people without weapons will be particularly vulnerable to those who have them. ammunition will be worth more than gold in this time of chaos and violence. do you know how to dig a well? collect rain water? how many of you will be willing to eat your neighbor's dog to survive? and what if you get sick? an illness like the common flu will become a serious disease.
the only chance to survive is to get out of the cities before they are clamped down tight. let's say you made it out to the country before the situation got too dangerous. now what? others will have had the same plan as you, and you might find yourself having to defend against thieves and killers. do you have weapons? do you have plenty of ammunition? are you willing to use them to protect your family? do you have seeds to plant? do you think the property owners whose land you're squatting on will allow you to stay there? do you have first aid supplies? water purification products? tools? probably not. so building a shelter will be difficult.
getting out of the cities will be required to survive against the gangs of violent thugs and thieves who will emerge from the darkness. but who will you have to deal with out in the countryside? so you've made it to the country but you don't have the tools or skills to defend your family and grow food. there will be other families there who can only survive by taking what you have. are you willing to defend yourself with deadly force if neccessary? if so, have you procured the weapons to defend with? maybe you have a weapon and some ammunition, but do you have cleaning solvents and lubrication to allow them to function properly? you must think hard and write down a list of things you will need to survive in the woods. it will be too late to get the things you need after the system collapses. and how will you ever be able to get your survival supplies out of the city, all at one time? chances are you won't be able to do that. if you wait until the government collapses to make your move chances are you will not be able to carry everything with you needed to survive. so what then? you were smart and collected survival gear that you can't carry with you to the country. its all lost. just left behind for thieves to take for their own use.
i hope none of us ever has to experience this sort of thing. i hate to think of all the suffering and sorrow. the elderly and small children will be hurt the most. the gang animals that are held in check by law enforcement now will be free to behave however they want. these people have absolutely no regard for life or the rights of others.
good luck to everyone. i think we're closer to collapse than we might want to believe.
firemen and police have left their jobs to be with their families. house fires are totally destructive as a result. there are people forming gangs ravaging whole neighborhoods, stealing, killing, raping---squatting in homes they have taken over. you can't call the police for help. depending on where you live will determine how you respond to these events. the key thing is to try to be as prepared as you can be to survive this total collapse of government and the violence that will surely come.
take note that most large american cities are surrounded by a "loop" or "beltway". trying to disobey orders and escape from large cities will be difficult with UN troops patrolling these highways with inspection stations at every on-ramp and exit. but you can't stay where you are and survive. you have to get away from the city. some how. some way. its your only chance.
some people will have had the foresight to prepare and have water and a few weeks of food, but what will they do when they run out? many people don't have the skills to survive long term on their own. people without weapons will be particularly vulnerable to those who have them. ammunition will be worth more than gold in this time of chaos and violence. do you know how to dig a well? collect rain water? how many of you will be willing to eat your neighbor's dog to survive? and what if you get sick? an illness like the common flu will become a serious disease.
the only chance to survive is to get out of the cities before they are clamped down tight. let's say you made it out to the country before the situation got too dangerous. now what? others will have had the same plan as you, and you might find yourself having to defend against thieves and killers. do you have weapons? do you have plenty of ammunition? are you willing to use them to protect your family? do you have seeds to plant? do you think the property owners whose land you're squatting on will allow you to stay there? do you have first aid supplies? water purification products? tools? probably not. so building a shelter will be difficult.
getting out of the cities will be required to survive against the gangs of violent thugs and thieves who will emerge from the darkness. but who will you have to deal with out in the countryside? so you've made it to the country but you don't have the tools or skills to defend your family and grow food. there will be other families there who can only survive by taking what you have. are you willing to defend yourself with deadly force if neccessary? if so, have you procured the weapons to defend with? maybe you have a weapon and some ammunition, but do you have cleaning solvents and lubrication to allow them to function properly? you must think hard and write down a list of things you will need to survive in the woods. it will be too late to get the things you need after the system collapses. and how will you ever be able to get your survival supplies out of the city, all at one time? chances are you won't be able to do that. if you wait until the government collapses to make your move chances are you will not be able to carry everything with you needed to survive. so what then? you were smart and collected survival gear that you can't carry with you to the country. its all lost. just left behind for thieves to take for their own use.
i hope none of us ever has to experience this sort of thing. i hate to think of all the suffering and sorrow. the elderly and small children will be hurt the most. the gang animals that are held in check by law enforcement now will be free to behave however they want. these people have absolutely no regard for life or the rights of others.
good luck to everyone. i think we're closer to collapse than we might want to believe.
The value of money is dependent on the amount of energy that people are willing to expend to acquire it. If you print unlimited money, money loses its value to people and makes them unwilling to exchange their work for your essentially useless paper. If the world ends then sure money will be worthless but it will be just as worthless as gold, yet another currency that is not based in any practical realistic usefulness. As to what would happen if we got rid of money right now, the world would end as we know it. What incentive do you have to provide to people to do research and development of technology or medical research or any of the other amazing things that make our lives better?? Carrots? Beets? Surely some would continue to work in a way that progresses humanity as a race but the vast majority would not simply because it would not behoove them to go out and work for 14 hours in their field or in the lab because they are not being paid in anything which they can't provide for themselves. Money is just a method by which we trade wealth and energy, there is nothing especially evil about it. If we were trading gold or trading sea shells or any other form of currency that has been used throughout human history, we would be essentially doing the same thing. And I don't think America can feed the world right now nor do I think that we would if there weren't money or wealth to be accumulated for doing so.
I hate to disagree but we are not all equal. As you have pointed out there will always be people who are smarter, stronger, faster, better at doing something. The idea of equality is not that no one is better at anything than anyone else but that in their human essence no man is better than another which is why we should be granted the same rights under the law. However, if there is no social contract or law upon which to depend equality means nothing because there is no way for your rights to be systematically protected but by your own execution of violence. Furthermore we know that we are programmed to be okay with being unequal via our physiological preferences in the opposite sex. Sexual selection is evolution(and inequality) at its best, I choose to mate with choice d because they will give my offspring the best chance of survival. So I guess that I don't disagree that we are all created equal in the eyes of the law/Deity and in the idealism that all of our lives are precious and mine no more than yours, but to think that such an idea would matter after the fall of money which would essentially be a post apocalyptic society, I think is overly optimistic at best and is more likely naive. In anarchy or our state of nature, all rights and no rights simultaneously exist in that you may act in any way you desire unabated but for the fact that your fellow man may act upon the same principle of freedom and restrict you of your rights.
As a final note, those of you who wish to live in a world without money, you may create a microcosm where money doesn't exist, that is up to you. There are hundreds of communes throughout the world where you may choose to live a life altogether different and theoretically better than the one you lead now. Granted the commune as a whole will have to participate in the world of capitalism if they live in a locality where property taxes must be paid or if something must be purchased from outside of the commune. So if a world without money is what you want, then by all means go live on a commune, it will change your life, it is a great experience.
Anyways, just my 2 cents on the subject. Peace.
rootfingers
Active member
We may not be inherently equal because of *genetic accidents but we should make it our mission to level the playing field as much as possible and that mostly includes helping people reach their fullest potential no matter the accident of their genetic make-up. It also means limiting some extra smart or strong person's ability to take over a market with greed and self interest by regulating the market place, thus destroying the libertarian utopian idea of a "free market" so that we can all have a more fair shake.
*Accidents of genetics include but are not limited to wealth of family/economic circumstance, race, IQ or learning ability, health factors etc.
*Accidents of genetics include but are not limited to wealth of family/economic circumstance, race, IQ or learning ability, health factors etc.
What do you mean by limiting the strong or extra smart? Are you talking about antitrust legislation or something else?
Root, I agree with you that we should be trying to ensure that everyone reaches their full potential, however, even here we have people whose ideal is to grow their own vegetables and participate in a money-less economy. How do we negotiate the balance between the desires of the parents on what they want their children to do and not to do vs their potential? I mean a child may have a natural affinity for trading stocks but their parents happen to want them to follow their line of participating in a Thoreau style rural agrarianism?
Root, I agree with you that we should be trying to ensure that everyone reaches their full potential, however, even here we have people whose ideal is to grow their own vegetables and participate in a money-less economy. How do we negotiate the balance between the desires of the parents on what they want their children to do and not to do vs their potential? I mean a child may have a natural affinity for trading stocks but their parents happen to want them to follow their line of participating in a Thoreau style rural agrarianism?
rootfingers
Active member
To clarify, I mean that we should create legislation that puts limits on greed. Those extra "gifted" lets say, will have the tools to rise to the top of any marketplace they are in. The staggering and growing wealth gap should make apparent to everyone at this point there is not a limit to the unchecked greed of some people. This legislation can take the form of antitrust laws absolutely. Would also mean at least having a conversation about the benefits of raising capital gains taxes to something like 90%.
I don't have children and can't give much advice on how people should relate to their children in the way you mean, I think.
I don't have children and can't give much advice on how people should relate to their children in the way you mean, I think.
