A Pain In Molasses

[Hank Hemp]

Blackstrap molasses is for the soil micro-bugs not the plant per say.

 

[mad librettist]

Blackstrap molasses is for the soil micro-bugs not the plant per say.

I believe Spurr had a contentious thread about this a while back.

There remains a question in my mind - am i just interfering with something perfect by dumping sugar on the soil, instead of making the soil earn its sugar by trading with plants?

When I interfere, am I perhaps reducing complexity by "making it rain"?

 

[rrog]

I'm more and more thinking the less we deviate from the way it was 1000 years ago, the better. So I could certainly subscribe to your thought MadL But then there's the steady stream of anecdotal evidence. The Sulfur thing is interesting.

 

[grapeman]

heya rrog, I have a simple experiment for you.

smoke a bowl of nicely cured good quality bud. Note the nice flavors.

now sprinkle some sugar on top of a fresh bowl of the same stuff and smoke it. Does sugar taste sweet when it burns?


"sweet" aromas have nothing whatsoever to do with sugar. we associate the two because plants trying to get us to eat them show us they are edible by putting out appetitive odors.

also smell some sugar. what does it smell like?

Why would smoking sugar prove any point you are trying to make?

Wow, sometimes.............

 

[grapeman]

BTW - sulfur is one of the best soil amendments in farming higher ph soils. Sulfate of Potash is used by fruit growers for the obvious benefits of K and the subtle benefits of S (flavor and odor enhancement). A little is good, more is not better. I use a bit of this product (@ 1/2 teaspoon/gal) a couple of times during the grow.

 

[Microbeman]

BTW - sulfur is one of the best soil amendments in farming higher ph soils. Sulfate of Potash is used by fruit growers for the obvious benefits of K and the subtle benefits of S (flavor and odor enhancement). A little is good, more is not better. I use a bit of this product (@ 1/2 teaspoon/gal) a couple of times during the grow.

We used small amounts of this in our greenhouse soil once upon a time. Too much prohibits beneficial fungi which is the reason to avoid using black strap molasses with sulphur [fur], especially in an compost tea or fermentation.

 

[TACOE]

Was skimming an issue of skunk the other day and he (rev) had a paragraph or so on molasses. Nothing to do with the smells or any of that. The usual stuff - use it for the micros. *But he dis say he stops using it in the 2nd half of flower because of the high mg. He claims high mg leads to harsher smoke. I can dig that. I have always used it right before I start doing water only :X. Maybe if I cut that out my product will be smoother. And therefore tastier. *Well see

 

[Dislexus]

Hmm he was probably using sulphured molasses, thats the harshness... I cut out the sulphured molasses the last half of flower too.. a little goes a long way.

I've given unsulphured blackstrap right up to harvest... I don't notice harshness from unsulphured.

 

[nzha]

i did notie that using molasses makes the bud unnaturally sweet and caramel like sometimes

i liked it the first time i used it

But i think it gives a bytaste to every strain , so i stopped using it

Mj tastes fine the way it is

 

[TACOE]

Sulphur argument is very interesting. I had been scared away from using Sul po mag in the past because of the possibility of adding too much sulfur. *+ When infected, we use sulfur foliar sprays to make the foliage uninhabitable to fungi/bact (I.e botrytis, but I assume It kills everything - by lowering surface pH(?)) - not something I want to happen in my soil. *Also I didn't feel like I needed any more mg and never went with the straight sopo.

I get nervous about mineral imbalances when I start adding so many different amendments. Hard to calculate where I'm at.

 

[rrog]

Sulfate of Potash is used by fruit growers for the obvious benefits of K and the subtle benefits of S (flavor and odor enhancement). A little is good, more is not better.

More sulfur / flavor correlation.

 

[TACOE]

Hmm he was probably using sulphured molasses, thats the harshness... I cut out the sulphured molasses the last half of flower too.. a little goes a long way.

I've given unsulphured blackstrap right up to harvest... I don't notice harshness from unsulphured.

I don't think so. He was talking specifically about the wholesome organics which is unsulfured bsm. He agues, as most others do, never to use sulfured. Plus he specifically stated the mg was the issue. I am always wary of pot magazine info. But I tend to like this guys articles
Honestly I've never seen the wise folks suggest sulfured mol. So I will never use it

 

[rrog]

We used small amounts of this in our greenhouse soil once upon a time. Too much prohibits beneficial fungi which is the reason to avoid using black strap molasses with sulphur [fur], especially in an compost tea or fermentation.

I wouldn't imagine two different applications of sulfured molasses dilution in 1st half of flower would harm fungi?

 

[schwilly]

--"So do I have this right? Do you claim that since there are no studies actually supporting your conclusions, ones that are sort of related are just as good?


Am I ever wrong? Try asking a question thta wasn't settled a long time ago."

I'm afraid that it would be tough to get grant money for a study addressing exactly what we are discussing. Probably why one doesn't exist. What I have done is provided you with research that proves a mechanism in other plants that could account for what I am claiming. Or "non sequiturs" in mad's latin. You have just kind of sat back with your arms crossed a been like, "nope, wrong dude." All while providing zero evidence for your position.

I hope you understand why I value the veracity of peer-reviewed research and my own first-hand experience over the unsupported statements of some guy whose only credentials appear to be 4000 posts on a weed forum and a surly attitude.

With this "being settled long ago" there should be all kinds of literature out there stating your position. Link some up for me.

--"when we smell "molasses", we are smelling many different smells all at once resulting from a variety of volatile compounds. How can they ALL make it through uptake and tissue generation intact?"

Everything here is right. However, not all of these compounds need be present in original concentrations to produce a smell resembling the original whole substance.

As one of the links I posted details, it is entirely possible for these molecules to be transported to and found in vacuoles or lipids.

--"and a third point to look at, is that if claims of flavoring via ferts were true, it would imply that everything in molasses is taken up in perfect proportions via passive transport, otherwise those parts of the smell profile requiring active transport would be reduced in the flowers, which would result in a smell not like molasses but like some of its components."

For something to smell "like" molasses it need not contain molasses' aromatic compounds in perfect proportions. I'm sure there is variability of these compounds among brands, and even different batches of the same. They all still smell "like" molasses. Even if only some of the aromatic compounds that make up of the aroma profile of molasses are present in flowers, it can still smell "like" molasses.

 

[Microbeman]

I wouldn't imagine two different applications of sulfured molasses dilution in 1st half of flower would harm fungi?

imagine?

Sulphur is a fungicide. It is added to agricultural molasses to prevent infection by fungus. [besides the sulfur naturally occurring in some molasses]

 

[mad librettist]

--"So do I have this right? Do you claim that since there are no studies actually supporting your conclusions, ones that are sort of related are just as good?


Am I ever wrong? Try asking a question thta wasn't settled a long time ago."

I'm afraid that it would be tough to get grant money for a study addressing exactly what we are discussing. Probably why one doesn't exist. What I have done is provided you with research that proves a mechanism in other plants that could account for what I am claiming. Or "non sequiturs" in mad's latin. You have just kind of sat back with your arms crossed a been like, "nope, wrong dude." All while providing zero evidence for your position.

I hope you understand why I value the veracity of peer-reviewed research and my own first-hand experience over the unsupported statements of some guy whose only credentials appear to be 4000 posts on a weed forum and a surly attitude.

With this "being settled long ago" there should be all kinds of literature out there stating your position. Link some up for me.

--"when we smell "molasses", we are smelling many different smells all at once resulting from a variety of volatile compounds. How can they ALL make it through uptake and tissue generation intact?"

Everything here is right. However, not all of these compounds need be present in original concentrations to produce a smell resembling the original whole substance.

As one of the links I posted details, it is entirely possible for these molecules to be transported to and found in vacuoles or lipids.

--"and a third point to look at, is that if claims of flavoring via ferts were true, it would imply that everything in molasses is taken up in perfect proportions via passive transport, otherwise those parts of the smell profile requiring active transport would be reduced in the flowers, which would result in a smell not like molasses but like some of its components."

For something to smell "like" molasses it need not contain molasses' aromatic compounds in perfect proportions. I'm sure there is variability of these compounds among brands, and even different batches of the same. They all still smell "like" molasses. Even if only some of the aromatic compounds that make up of the aroma profile of molasses are present in flowers, it can still smell "like" molasses.

the fact something is peer-reviewed does not mean it supports your position. you have nothing but anecdotes. when confronted with lack of evidence, your response is to ask for evidence refuting your assertion.

"can you prove it isn't true", in other words.

 

[rrog]

MM, thats why I asked. Thanks

 

[Microbeman]

Scwilly; Perhaps you can post some full studies supporting plant uptake of whole organic molecules. I'm interested.

 

[xmobotx]

drawing to much attention on specifics

Exactly, a well balanced mix - much like a well balanced diet - will allow the plant to develop it's flavor profile - as expected based on strain - oddball mixes emphasizing weird shit like trend nutes may indeed cause undesirable tastes due to imbalance

 

[grapeman]

We used small amounts of this in our greenhouse soil once upon a time. Too much prohibits beneficial fungi which is the reason to avoid using black strap molasses with sulphur [fur], especially in an compost tea or fermentation.

What was too much in your greenhouse?