A Complete Guide to Topping, Training and Pruning

[IncredibowlBoss]

Yup! Definitely diesely!

She's been in veg about 2 months - staying until January (so about 2 more weeks) - we've got her alone under 1,000 watts, so the goal is 2 lbs (using 1g/watt -10%).

Speaking of her stem...

I definitely agree that the process is rewarding - just watching the development is mind-blowing!

Awesome bro

Can you smell the diesel already? Stinky weed usually reeks already in veg.

Your plant is looking much better now that she has recovered from the training. You could tie down the new shoots in turn so that they allow even more shoots to grow. Perhaps that is what you are doing, I cannot tell from the picture. There's some yellowing on the leaves but nothing serious. The plant might just need a boost of nutrients.

Some might not agree with me but I like to take my time training the plant, which also means that I usually keep them in veg for at least 4 weeks, until they look like they are going to produce a nice harvest. One of the hidden benefits of a long veg time is a thick stem, which also allows the plant to transport a lot of water and nutrients to the buds.

I find that training the plant is a bit like bonsai gardening. The activity itself is rewarding, so I'm in no hurry.

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

Quick question about going into flower:

A few people have suggested backing off on the LST for the next couple weeks, trimming back the extra foliage and throwing a scrog net overtop as we head into flower - any thoughts?

 

[Kodiak]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. The biggest yielding plants that I've had so far, were all bonsai moms that went through several months of vegging and training. Plants become extremely healthy and vigorous when they are not not pushed into flowering too soon.

Sounds like a good plan. Here's just some things to consider. Stop the training (perhaps even release some of the branches where needed), add the scrog net and start flowering when she is ready. Then redirect the branches as they grow through the net during the stretch, so that the entire area is covered in budding shoots.

You can get a lot of bud from one plant as long as you plan carefully what to do and use a large enough pot. Pot size is a limiting factor after all.

You don't have to remove any foliage until she's a few weeks into flowering. See how it goes. Tuck some leaves under the net and remove others were needed. I would not remove too much on top though, I'm no big fan on defoliation as most of the energy is produced in the leaves and then transported to the buds. I would rather concentrate on removing the lower growth, thereby pushing the energy towards the top shoots. I remove just a little bit at the time because if you remove too much the plant might also go into "defence mode" and start releasing jasmonic acid, which will stunt the growth for a while. This happens if the plant perceives that it is being attacked by a large number of insects. Removing a little bit at the time also gives you a better idea of what to do next. The plant will draw energy from some of the lower leaves. They will go yellow and drop on their own. The 1K hps has good penetration but some of the lower growth will always be in the shade. If you look closely under the scrog net, you can actually see where that line is drawn. The shoots that receive enough light will gain size, while the ones that are in the shade will struggle.

The real energy sinks are the lower branches with their popcorn buds that never really seem to mature. It is best to remove them as soon as possible, before the plant has time to invest too much energy into them. You can leave some of top shoots on the lower branches alone if they look like they might amount to something but pluck away all the lower buds as they appear. If the entire branch looks like it's wasting energy, remove it as soon as possible, even before the 12/12 stretch.

Nice and easy. Steady progress is what you want. Flowering times can be quite flexible depending on how you train the plant so I usually forget all about it and just watch how things go. It's harvest time when the buds are nice and fat and the most of the trichs are cloudy.

 

[benjuanman]

thanks for the informative thread Kodiak. i especially liked the monster cropping section coz it would suit me perfectly with my SCROG n that i wanna keep my numbers down n yields up.

 

[Kodiak]

I'm glad you liked it benjuanman. Good luck with your grow.

 

[MrShpongle]

I'm totally stoked to try monster cropping. I've read the whole guide but still have a question. I just snipped some clones from 3 plants that are 15-25 days into flower. They are about 6 inches long with several side branches and 3-6 buds per clone. Should I remove all of the buds, leave them all on, or trim the lower ones only? I'll trim all of the side branches and leaves as per normal cloning procedure, leaving only the last set.

 

[Kodiak]

I would leave the topmost bud on the clones intact and remove the rest. You just need to get them to root so too much bud on the clones might just slow them down. I would however not remove any of the bud on the tops because you never know how the clones will respond to that.

It all depends on the plant, so perhaps you should try different approaches just to make sure.

Roots form more rapidly if they are supplied with oxygen, so I use a small bubbler for cloning.

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

Can't wait to see this!!! Good luck getting 'em to root - on that note, Moonshine recently recommended Rapidgrow Root Burst to me as by far the best rooting product out - maybe it'll help?

I'm totally stoked to try monster cropping. I've read the whole guide but still have a question. I just snipped some clones from 3 plants that are 15-25 days into flower. They are about 6 inches long with several side branches and 3-6 buds per clone. Should I remove all of the buds, leave them all on, or trim the lower ones only? I'll trim all of the side branches and leaves as per normal cloning procedure, leaving only the last set.

 

[Kodiak]

Yeah. You should give them some rooting hormones. I use Clonex but I'm sure that other proucts work just as well. When you see roots forming you can start feeding them a light dose of vegging nutes. It might help to persuade them to revert back into full veg mode.

Perhaps you could post some pictures when you get the flowering clones to root. Stuff like this is always interesting. Cannabis is an annual plant so it is reluctant to revegging but it works on some plants. The wonders of nature never cease.

 

[MrShpongle]

I'm using my standard cloning procedure: Clonex, rockwool, CFL lights on 24/7, humidity dome, warming pad, the works. I'm on day 9 with nothing showing, but I'm not expecting anything for another week. I'll report back when something happens. I also took regular clones from vegging plants the same day; they popped roots in 4 days and were transplanted on day 6.

 

[Chronito]

Hi Kodiak, Great Thread!

Hey sorry if this has been asked already.. What im wondering is after you top a plant the first time at say the 4th node, if you wanted to top again say 2 months later where do u top the second time on the plant??

Do you just top the main two shoots again that split after the first topping? Or do you top some other shoots further down as well?

Ima bit confused on this if someone could shed some light on this it'd be much appreciated
Im interested in growing big bushes with lots of tops hence the reason why i was thinking of topping a second time..

Thanks heaps for any advice / answers..
Chronito

 

[Kodiak]

Hi Chronito

You don't have to wait that long to top the plant the second time. Some time efter you have topped it the first time, the secondary shoots will elongate. You can then tie them down to the pot. When the tertiary shoots start elongating you top them in turn. Tie down and top, repeat as many times as you like. If you keep the plants in veg for a long time, you will also end up topping them several times over.

You get the best results if you top the branches above every new node. The goal is two folded. The first thing is shaping the plant into a bush. The second, and perhaps more important, is creating as many bud sites as possible. Stem is of little use to you. What you want is compact structure with lots of focus on budding nodes. In the great outdoors these plants grow very large and bushy in their natural state but indoors you need to conserve space.

Topping and training will give you very bushy plants with lots of branches, packed with bud sites. The branches will be thin at first but they will grow much stronger later on. Done right, you will end up with monster plants but for that to happen you also have to give them time. Remember that pot size is a limiting factor so use large ones if you want large plants.

The next challange is helping the plant to focus its energy in the right places during flowering. The plant will most likely favor some branches over others due to the limited light source. Keep the best branches and remove the rest. It's a bit difficult to explain but you will know what to do when you see it. Usually it's lower branches that end up as energy sinks. By removing them, you also push the production towards the top half of the plant.

What you need to find is the energy equilibrium that produces the greatest amount of bud. You need to take the plant's structure into consideration when you do the planning for it during flowering. Scrogging the plants will help you to visualize things. You become the architect so to speak.

I always give my plants growth hormones, which speeds things up a bit. Look for products that contain kelp/sea weed extract. Algae have no roots so they produce growth hormones in abundance in order to survive predation.

You might also want to release some of the tied down branches at some point. You have think about a number of things but you'll improve with practise. Do your best and then apply what you have learned during your next grow.

Good luck and have fun

 

[Scrogerman]

Exellent advice K, as always.

 

[Chronito]

Wowow thanks Kodiak!

Thats alot for me to take in at the moment..

I need to re read a few times and absorb everything that was said. Im definitely using large pots around 7 gallons (yes monsters are what im looking to create!)

I will keep u guys updated with my topping progress (maybe some pics later 2.. I got the Nirvana Indoor fem mix with blue satellite freebie.. 100% germination.. a good mix of genetics things are getting very big after about 6 weeks with height ranging from 1.5feet - 2.5 feet. Im also about to take first batch of cuttings.. fun times

Thanks again il be back
Chronito

 

[Chronito]

Il definitely be removing the lower branches prior to flowering. Most of these will be taken and used as cuttings..

Im a big fan of getting rid of those lower popcorn branches, ive seen what a drain it is on the rest of the plant.. and the returns are just not worth keeping it imo..

One thing Kodiak said was very interesting to me.. Where he says to get the best results top above every new node.. Wouldnt that slow the veg down with constant topping? I guess i can experiment with this and learn from doing.. im kinda bit wary to do anything too radical this time round as i really need my meds this first round.

Hmmm lots to consider.. Dang growing is fun!

Peace out
Chronito

 

[Chronito]

So being the pro active over eager little grasshopper i am, I just went and topped all of my babies again, topped the main 4-6 top branches on each one. Cant wait to see how they look in another week or 2..

Heres some pics sorry the quality isnt the greatest but u can get the idea. Maybe another 5-7 weeks vege for these babies and then flick to flower... GOGOGOGOGO

The biggest one in the middle is one of the blue satellite freebies. Grew like a beast since day one and much to my surprise and joy clearly showed female pistils everywhere a couple of weeks ago. Her stems are strong and she looks like she might do some damage in flower. The others are a fem Indoor Mix of Nirvanas,im going to take cuttings and keep whichever flowers best as my mums, maybe one or 2 strains i will keep not sure yet.

Il update the topping progress as it happens of course.. Thanks again Kodiak!


Chronito

 

[Kodiak]

No problem Chronito, glad to help.

Your plants look nice and healthy. Seems to me like you've been taking good care of them. They are certainly off of to a really good start.

Keep an eye out for hermies among the feminized plants. You never know, even some regular plants are hermies (it's a fairly common trait). Feminized seeds are however more likely to produce hermie plants, so keep an eye on them. Stress is what triggers it.

Some of the things that I said implies that you give your plants a long time in veg but you should naturally adapt your training in accordance with your time table. Another 5-7 weeks in veg will be more than enough time for proper training. If they look ready for flowering before that time, don't hesitate to flip the switch to 12/12. Keep in mind that your plants might double in height during the stretch that occurs in early flowering.

I would also like to remind you that this thread is for mainly for questions and problems, so please refrain from posting frequent personal updates because they will quickly turn this thread into somebody's grow diary and that is not the idea. If things are running along smoothly, you can start your own grow threads and if you send me the link, I'll be happy to drop by and see how your plants are doing.

I'm sure that you understand what I mean. Questions are always welcome of course and there is nothing wrong with the occasional update on how things worked out.

Kodiak

 

[Chronito]

Hi Kodiak,

Firstly thanks for the nice compliments on the babies, i always try and do my best for them and i appreciate your kind words.

Secondly apologies for the personal updates.. As i was typing it i actually did wonder if i was crossing any lines.. I completely understand why this is necessary.. Point well taken il keep it to questions etc in this thread.

Now onto hermies... Eeeek that is scary to hear but im very glad u told me to look out for them. That could be a disaster to say the least if my entire room got pollinated from a rogue hermie. I have my magnifying glass and now since you told me i will be keeping an extra careful lookout for any signs.. One question i do have on this.. Do hermies show signs of being hermy in vege or is it always in flower they show up? Or does it depend as per usual LOL..

Hope everyone is having a great day!

thanks
Chronito

 

[Chronito]

Oh and another question for u if u dont mind Kodiak..

I am planning to strip the bottom 1/3rd or so of branches on each plant..Basically like urve said anything that isnt reaching the top of the canopy. WHEN is the most optimal time to do this do you think? Keeping in mind im in about week 7 of veg (with about 5 more to go), ive topped twice now as of yesterday, and i also need to take a few cuttings in the next day or two..

So should i just take the rest of the lower branches off now at the same time as taking the cuttings or should i wait a while closer to flower before i do it? I guess we're talking investment planning here, when do we do this? Since i topped heavily yesterday do you think it would cause too much stress by removing the lower branches right now also?

thanks again man i appreciate your expertise in these matters..
chronito

 

[Kodiak]

Hi Chronito

I'm glad that you understand.

About the hermies, the male flowers can turn up as soon as the plant shows preflowers. Usually they show up a bit later on because the plant's original gender is often more clearly expressed.

I like to keep it simple so I remove any plant that shows the slightest signs of hermaphroditism. I breed my plants and hermies just won't do. They will just give you problems further down the line. Stable females that can handle a lot of stress are the keepers.

Don't remove all the growth at once. Spread it out a bit over the weeks to come. You can start pushing the focus towards the top shoots. Remove some of the lower branches before flowering begins but take your time and watch how the plants respond.