hey clack, I know you didn't ask me, but if you make tea with EM, the EM will just be protozoan food. Added at the end, they have a chance to compete and/or find the right niche.
Trichgnomes
Member
Bump.
I'm interested in this as well. As it stands I have only applied EM to soil in between plantings, but was planning on using it in soil that had living plants rotationally with ACT. However, if it would be more/comparably effective to add it to the ACT once finished and then apply, I may try it out.
As a side note, can anyone vouch for SCD ProBio Plus? I think I remember a certain intellectual recommending it, one that spoke his mind, quite often lacking filter...
Anyways, it has two additional species of PNSB. I recently applied it (activated first, of course) to in-limbo soil, and it is much too early to see any results.
I'm interested in this as well. As it stands I have only applied EM to soil in between plantings, but was planning on using it in soil that had living plants rotationally with ACT. However, if it would be more/comparably effective to add it to the ACT once finished and then apply, I may try it out.
As a side note, can anyone vouch for SCD ProBio Plus? I think I remember a certain intellectual recommending it, one that spoke his mind, quite often lacking filter...
Anyways, it has two additional species of PNSB. I recently applied it (activated first, of course) to in-limbo soil, and it is much too early to see any results.
Trichgnomes
Without boring you with all of the details on how and why EM is manufactured and distributed around the world but SCD is simply the authorized distributor of EM and somehow/someway they're connected with EMAmerica.
I've purchased a couple of products from SCD (their SCD Bio Ag product which also contains the PNSB deal) and will so in the future.
HTH
CC
Without boring you with all of the details on how and why EM is manufactured and distributed around the world but SCD is simply the authorized distributor of EM and somehow/someway they're connected with EMAmerica.
I've purchased a couple of products from SCD (their SCD Bio Ag product which also contains the PNSB deal) and will so in the future.
HTH
CC
Trichgnomes
Member
Thanks.
I was pretty sure they were a good source of it, and I think I know what you're referring to-- the fact that each country cultures it from microbes in their area. For a while I was trying to figure out a way to keep a mother culture going indefinitely, but then I came across an article that was written by founder Matthew Wood, who apparently studies with Dr. Higa before starting SCD. I'm sure you probably know this CC, but for others who are curious, I found it quite interesting.
He stated why it was impossible to keep an EM extension going indefinitely. The Lactic acid bacteria, phototropic bacteria, and yeast are each cultured separately, and then added together to create the mother culture. The reason for this is that each group relies on different foodstuffs. The PNSBs, for example, do not readily consume molasses in the way LAB do, and would eventually be drastically reduced due to insufficient light, or lack of proper food. This shed a light on the concept of EM for me, because for the longest time I was viewing it as similar to yogurt, kefir or kombucha, all products that can be cultured from the same mother culture indefinitely. And to boot, the very opposite happens, the culture grows and one gets to share it with friends/family.
I was pretty sure they were a good source of it, and I think I know what you're referring to-- the fact that each country cultures it from microbes in their area. For a while I was trying to figure out a way to keep a mother culture going indefinitely, but then I came across an article that was written by founder Matthew Wood, who apparently studies with Dr. Higa before starting SCD. I'm sure you probably know this CC, but for others who are curious, I found it quite interesting.
He stated why it was impossible to keep an EM extension going indefinitely. The Lactic acid bacteria, phototropic bacteria, and yeast are each cultured separately, and then added together to create the mother culture. The reason for this is that each group relies on different foodstuffs. The PNSBs, for example, do not readily consume molasses in the way LAB do, and would eventually be drastically reduced due to insufficient light, or lack of proper food. This shed a light on the concept of EM for me, because for the longest time I was viewing it as similar to yogurt, kefir or kombucha, all products that can be cultured from the same mother culture indefinitely. And to boot, the very opposite happens, the culture grows and one gets to share it with friends/family.
SCD looks good, I got EM america and it works fine. I told my friend getting started to get the SCD with the extra PNSB though, because it's not that much more expensive, and those are harder to produce.
also recommended by ganja din was vinny pinto's e-book. I got it and was not disappointed. the scd stores have it.
basically EM are facultative anaerobes. To brew fast they like very low o2 and high temps - like 90F. They are the ones that pickle sauerkraut. Adding them to actively aerated tea at cooler temps means they won't grow, and since you are creating a good environment for protozoa... at least if you add it at the end, you have some control over the amount, and you are actually spraying tea with EM, not tea made with EM.
So why not just use as directed, alone?
Trichgnomes
Actually I did not know that. This topic has been discussed between myself and a friend who's a professor of biology over at University of Oregon in Eugene. I'm sending him an email with your post and see if we can't move our argument/discussion further down the road as it were.
Over a couple of beers and the obligatory smart-phone to check facts on the internet. Pretty scientific, eh? LOL
Thanks!!
CC
I don't buy that PNSB comment. The PNSB and PSB are the hardiest of bacteria. You can feed them with light. PSB were the first creatures to start converting our poison atmosphere to one breathable by plants. They did this by fixing carbon as protein, which was then broken apart to make mineralized N and C (as CO2). You owe everything to PSB's
from microbewiki, concerning R.Palustris, the PNSB listed in my EM
from microbewiki, concerning R.Palustris, the PNSB listed in my EM
Trichgnomes
Something that you may want to consider is to get on SCD's email list. Every 2 months or so you'll get an email offering various products at huge discounts.
I bought a gallon of the SCD Bio Ag product last summer for $31.00 delivered. That's only about $10.00 more than the liter size at normal prices.
HTH
CC
Something that you may want to consider is to get on SCD's email list. Every 2 months or so you'll get an email offering various products at huge discounts.
I bought a gallon of the SCD Bio Ag product last summer for $31.00 delivered. That's only about $10.00 more than the liter size at normal prices.
HTH
CC
Trichgnomes
Member
I do not disagree, but keep in mind, you are not referring to lab cultured, dormant Rhodopseudomonas palustris, which may not be as resilient. I found the excerpt that I was referring to, but I think I'll start a new thread, we aren't really in Compost Tea territory anymore...
or mad-lit
C
CT Guy
I have no real experience with EM, so I'm going to let you fellas chime in and just read your posts on this one. 
I guess you've figured that SCD is an independent manufacturer of EM in high & bitter competition with EMRO USA (America). Dr, Higa has disowned them (and I assume Matthew) In the good old days regular EM stock had three species of PNSBs. Rhodopseudomonas palustris, Rhodobacter sphaeroides & R. capsulatus
Dr, Higa http://emrojapan.com/
I use regular grade SCD with lots of light to grow the PNSBs. There is a photo in here somewhere.
I don't see the point in adding EM or other stuff to ACT. All you need is the few foods to grow out the microbes you want. I added AEM at 50% to ACT once (I know; silly) but protozoa dead all over the place. I added 5 gallons of fish hydrolysate to 1200 gallons of ACT. Got 40% dead and dormant microbes. I don't add things anymore.
Dr, Higa http://emrojapan.com/
I use regular grade SCD with lots of light to grow the PNSBs. There is a photo in here somewhere.
I don't see the point in adding EM or other stuff to ACT. All you need is the few foods to grow out the microbes you want. I added AEM at 50% to ACT once (I know; silly) but protozoa dead all over the place. I added 5 gallons of fish hydrolysate to 1200 gallons of ACT. Got 40% dead and dormant microbes. I don't add things anymore.
JuneBugJoe
Member
who are you insane people!!! HAHA your insane like me... I love following this thread and learning new things about all this plant biology stuff... Ordered Teaming With Microbes online since no libraries or book stores have it in this okie ole town.... I plan on getting a good compost machine for sure... I dont really want to mess with making my own... Ive seen a few that have some good air movement in them and in my opinion are worth the money...
I have a 300 plant site coliseum vertical grow system im selling on monday to a guy to get my machine Now that im out here in the great outdoors of oregon I want to concentrate on using good o' mother earth as my grow room...
I remember my grandmother back in the day use to have a big barrel of rain water that she collected... She would put manures in there from around the farm like chickens & turkeys & cows.... I never knew why she had that stinky ass water behind her garage... She was kinda on the same path but she did have flowers all over the place... just thought about that today after many moons ago thought it was a good story...
I have a 300 plant site coliseum vertical grow system im selling on monday to a guy to get my machine
Now that im out here in the great outdoors of oregon I want to concentrate on using good o' mother earth as my grow room... I remember my grandmother back in the day use to have a big barrel of rain water that she collected... She would put manures in there from around the farm like chickens & turkeys & cows.... I never knew why she had that stinky ass water behind her garage... She was kinda on the same path but she did have flowers all over the place... just thought about that today after many moons ago thought it was a good story...
JuneBugJoe
Member
oh and on the teaming with microbes book... there is a revised edition coming out in feb... i got it wonder if it will be much different... Ive seen where there was better info in older versions of books... any thoughts?
C
CT Guy
I'm seeing Jeff next week, I'll ask him and report back...
Get the new version. I'm in it<smirk>
I saw on another site they are reading and discussing it chapter by chapter in a sub-forum. Someone innocuous should suggest the book club approach here.
V
vonforne
C
CT Guy
What's the other site?
