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600w vert in a 4x4 looking for pointers

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organicsquirrel

Member
Alright the title says it all, I'm converting a space 4'x4', height 8' not really an issue. I'm going to be running a 600w and hoping to go bare bulb, but I'm trying to plan out my numbers and what the layout will be... If the 600 watter needs 12" on either side that only leaves 1ft width for the plants (anybody experienced with a 600w bare bulb know how far the plants can be)? Is this going to be possible w/o a screen?

I'm thinking of running 8 total, kind of 2 on each side.

Overshooting with the ventilation so temps should be a non issue.
 
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VAtransplant

Active member
I run 600's in a 4x4. Used to be a single 600 til this current run, but wanted to utilize my height.

Screen has proven to help a lot- this is also my first run using a cage of any time. My diameter of the cylinder is like just under 3 feet, bulb is in a 6" cool tube in the center..I'd guestimate there's about a foot from cool tube to the canonpy walls most of the way around. I wouldn't go wider with my setup, nor would I go more narrow for cage diameter. Nugs are seeming very dense.
 
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bigpappacough

New member
I grow vertical as well.I used a cage behind the plants and am now using a cage in front of my plants and it works great.As for bare bulb just make sure your room is cooled enough and you should be fine.
My first room was a 4x4x8 and i used an dual cool tube with a 1000watt on top and a 400 watt on bottom. My buds were pretty close to the tube like inches. But they were dense as shizzle.
My room now is bigger and i upgraded the 400 to a 600.Check my channel on youtube under bigpappacough505. Soon i hope to post pics of my grow in this forum.
 
Bush Dr

Bush Dr

Painting the picture of Dorian Gray
Veteran
A 600 with a fan blowing up on it only needs an 18" diameter cage

Like this
picture.php


For a first run try 4 good sized plants, one in each corner
 
Bush Dr

Bush Dr

Painting the picture of Dorian Gray
Veteran
Look at the light drop off at 18" from the cage compared to 9"

picture.php
 
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organicsquirrel

Member
Ok well 18" diameter sounds a lot nicer, hope I don't experience any burning.

What do you guys use to make your cage/screen? I was thinking about using the metal screen stuff that I got to make carbon filters with, but the holes are pretty small.

And for the fan it seems everybody is using the vornado? Any others or does it really matter here?
 
Aerohead

Aerohead

space gardener
Veteran
Bear with me for a sec here, Think of this grow as a flat garden to get your answer.

If you were lighting a 3X3 flat garden with a 600w HPS in an air cooled reflector, what height would you find best above the canopy? I bet it's not 9 inches because it wouldn't cover 3X3 at that height. Why? because it wouldn't spread far enough to catch the perimeter of the canopy. The buds yielded in the center would be rock solid, killer but the rest would be larf and the yield would suffer significantly.

So, if you have a 18" diameter around a 600w bare bulb, you don't even have 9" canopy because the bulb is 2".... Now you have 8" to the bulb. They won't burn if cooling is sufficient but you will loose yield big time and cause the grow to be alot of work.

So far, from my experience with a 600w vert, 30 inches is pretty good and anything smaller is going to decrease yield and increase how busy the grow is.

I am not trying to discourage you from running a 600w in a 4X4 at all, I would do it and it would be fun, but it's going to be busy to say the least. I am currently running a 600w in a 6X6 and I wish I had more room, I should move my plants farther apart, like 36" or so..

Diminishing returns moving the light closer, rock that 4X4 with that 600w and make the circle as big as you possibly can even if you have to scrog it, it will kick asses off.....
 
MyGreenToe

MyGreenToe

Member
^^^^

I'm runnin a 600 vert in a 4x4 now. I built my screen 18" diameter cause thats what I could fit in when I finally decided to do it. It's too small. Probably perfect for a 400. But really by the time everything is woven into the screen, then starts flowering inward, it's too damn tight. I'm seeing alot of bleaching and dried leaves in the inner circle. Things were gravy until they got within 6" of the bulb and I started to see bleaching. Next time I'm going to start with a screen at 30-36" in diameter, so that when the buds all grow in towards the light, they end up just short of 7-8" from the bulb. You gotta find the best compromise between light spread and light intensity, and I think with 600's it's probably somewhere in that 30-36" diameter range. I'll know better after my next round.
 
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organicsquirrel

Member
Thanks for all the tips guys, I've got the walls up! Still waiting on a few pieces of gear. I totally get the flat comparison and I think that toes is right on with the 30"-36" and considering that half of the plants are into the screen this makes up a good use of space. I think I will try to have whatever I make come up with a 32" diameter.

I am still unsure what to make the screen out of?? Do you guys use the metal hardware cloth stuff from home depot (you know that you used to make your carbon filters)?

I dislike the idea of having a circular screen because it's going to be impossible to get at the rear plants, so I've been trying to maybe figure out what to do. Do I make a screen for each plant? Do I make a few screens? Or leave the plants in the back alone and say fuck it?

My current system and experience is with rez formula/lucas recirculating in coco w/ smart pots.

I'm also planning out physical setup, I want to have the plants on a short table (like 20") with the res underneath it. I would like to continue doing recirculating, so I wonder if I should maybe get a bucket for each plant so they can have their own drain/be moved, or if I should get a 4'x4' flood table and just throw it in there. If anybody has any ideas or suggestions with setting this up please throw them down!

I've been thinking about having each plant on its own kind of sawhorse table type setup and having a screen on each one. I would like to start with 6 plants in the space so that would be 6 little tables. Each little table could have its own screen on it, making it individual and moveable/adjustable... OR I could have 3 tables each with 2 plants possibly in totes... HELP PLEASE!
 
Aerohead

Aerohead

space gardener
Veteran
Looks like we are about to have yet another awesome grow starting up in the vert section, I think we are taking over:biggrin:

Going to be exciting to see this grow added to the forum..
 
K

kannubis

Marlo uses the orange netting/ silt fence for his screens and it works very well according to his pics.
I've seen it at the home dopot.
 
reddy1

reddy1

Member
ICMag Donor
get a second 600watt light, put them in a duel cool tube. there's a big advantage of having 2 instead of 1 light IMHO. with a cool tube, you won't need a screen, it won't burn the plants, let them grow close if they need to. no light bleaching at 8" and out. 1-2' from the the light is the sweet spot for massive buds.

they have these trays that are narrow and long that are good for recirculating setups. there's the dutch leech 8"x42" for 2 gallon pots and hydrofarm makes a 18x42" tray for 5 gallon pots. i'd use 8 of the 5 gallon trays, 3 plants a piece, 24 total, 2 tiers, 4foot plants. dutch leach i'd run 12 trays of 4-5 plants, 50ish plants, 3 tiers, 2ft plants.

it's going to be very, very tight in there, hope your thin with long arms.
 
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organicsquirrel

Member
Unfortunately I have a 7' height limitation and I need to house a reservoir, 24" carbon filter, 6" vortex fan, and duct muffler. I was thinking of adding extra light through other means down the road, but for now it is looking like 2 tiers is not going to work there just isn't the space and I completely understand why it is so much better.

I guess I could run 2 or run a 600 + 400 and have taller plants.... But that will be for a future run after I get this down.

I'm not sure I could make 4x 42" trays work possibly 2 of them on either long side...
 
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organicsquirrel

Member
Well I've been kicking around doing just that. There would have to be a hole in the middle of the circle for plumbing. So there would be a table, just high enough for the rez, about 1' into the room (for easy rez access, right?) and then on top of that is the lazy suzan, on wheels, anchored through the hole in the middle (imagine a large dowel? or several?) A few of my parts aren't going to arrive until next week so I have some more time to work on it. If I did this I think I would have to have sites like 5 gal buckets each with a drain that went though the center hole? That would make them easy to say take 1 plant out or adjust in the future, and they would be moveable... I don't like how there would be standing water at the bottom of the buckets, any ideas there? Maybe tilt the buckets by like 1/4" or something...
 
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organicsquirrel

Member
Here is an update! I am balls deep in finishing up the room and here's what it looks like so far:

picture.php





Alright that table is what the lazy susan will sit on and I'm using 1/2" irrigation for the track! I need to cut a hole for this table to put a pvc tube through, finish the lazy susan part (cut the circle, put the wheels on), and then do the plumbing. With this setup I'll have a little over 4' of vertical space available, starting with 6 plant sites and going to DTW. I think recirc would be trickier to setup and plumb atm, but I may upgrade to it in the future. With the large res I should have no problems DTW for 3 weeks easy with no issues and I won't have to worry about res changes as much. The challenge will be getting the drippers setup to give the right amount.
 
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pine boy

Quick connect fittings for your plumbing.You could disconnect long enough for tending the garden.
Hope that helps...
 
D

DHF

Have you thought about what type manifold that`ll be connected to your pump for each individual plantsite to be fed DTW ?.....

As long as you can control environment , you can exploit the hell outta small spaces , but there`s certain things to be adhered to for dialed conditions , as you`ll soon find out......

You`re bound by the pump size on X amount of solution flow every time it kicks on , so I always used control valves/ball valves between the open end driptubing(never used drippers) and the pump to be able to dial down the exact amount of flow each plantsite needed for total saturation with sufficient runoff.....

Nowaday`s H&G`s "driplean" saves that runoff , and all that`s needed is constant saturation as the plants eat .....The drip clean takes care of residual salt buildups .....

Blumat`s are the ultimate way to dial each strain`s nutrient requirements cuz each variety drinks and grows/swells at different rates , and that`s where blumat`s rule cuz they only feed the plant as it eats/drinks nutrient solution ftw......if you`re usin coco or dirt that is.......

What are yas gonna be usin for medium in a DTW setup btw.......

Good luck Skwirly......DHF.....:ying:.....
 
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