4 and 5 Level Vertical Grow 270 Plants

[Snype]

So do you work for the company? Just trying to understand how your pics got on their Facebook page and the typing on their page talks like it's coming from them like on your thread here?

Also you don't list a retail price on your website. Is it crazy expense or something? I'd love to run one as a test. Looks real cool. I got some strains that could probably hit some good numbers in there.

 

[VerticalIcon]

OK so I wasn't expecting those kinds of questions I am with Verttek. Most of what you will read there will be written by me. I wanted to keep this separate and focused on the efficiency and yield. This is the highest plant count we have had to work with and if we can hit 22g avg we will hit 2gpw.

The systems are priced much better than the competition. I don't want to get flagged for coming out here pushing product, but I will say no other commercial system compares to this. Anyone out there can build one. Won't save any money, but having a 130-150sqft well controlled and fully accessible vertical canopy will. Vertical growing is agreeably the most efficient, the big question now is just how efficient can we get it. Give a call or email if you are interested in one.

 

[Snype]

OK so I wasn't expecting those kinds of questions I am with Verttek. Most of what you will read there will be written by me. I wanted to keep this separate and focused on the efficiency and yield. This is the highest plant count we have had to work with and if we can hit 22g avg we will hit 2gpw.

The systems are priced much better than the competition. I don't want to get flagged for coming out here pushing product, but I will say no other commercial system compares to this. Anyone out there can build one. Won't save any money, but having a 130-150sqft well controlled and fully accessible vertical canopy will. Vertical growing is agreeably the most efficient, the big question now is just how efficient can we get it. Give a call or email if you are interested in one.

I feel you. Problem with your system is plant numbers. Can't see anyone running hundreds of plants for 3 lights. Fed laws aren't too good with those types of numbers. It's a cool idea though. The other problem I see is with the planters. It's not really set up for hydro for better growth rates and it seems kind of small for all that root growth. Soil's going to slow things down. Nothing beats the growth rates of RDWC.

Plus even though you don't have much VEG time, you need so many MOMs to get that many clones. That also has to be put into the equation. For a 4,000 light room of RDWC, I only need 1 mom for 20 clones. That's to pull 8-10 pounds with a 10 day VEG in the flowering room. Still want to see how this turns out but seeing that you are a company, it'll be hard to trust your information. Happens too many times out here. Especially when a company says there system is the best. It's best to try and promote your system with a trusted IC member so we can trust the results more. There's too much incentive for you to move the numbers around. Independent testing means much more. Advertising cost money.

 

[VerticalIcon]

I502 in WA is much more flexible. They are packing plants in. You can use as few as 4 in a 2 level. Grow some trees in 12 gallon planters. That's what we are used to seeing. Using 300 which would be the max is high. But its also very productive and efficient.

 

[VerticalIcon]

That's 4 in each half unit. 8 total in a 2 level. The system still has the same canopy size, just fewer plants.

 

[Snype]

That's 4 in each half unit. 8 total in a 2 level. The system still has the same canopy size, just fewer plants.

Yeah but the roots are kind of restricted and then you need more veg time and training. With 3 Gavita DE's you can get a canopy of 5' x 18' and hit some pretty high numbers as well without being so restricted. So many ways. And it all depends on what your system costs. I feel it cost over 1k not including the light which would be pretty expensive. My RDWC system only cost $450 for a 10 bucket / 2,000 Watt system and I think it's the best system just like you. Easy 4+ pounds with a 2 weeks VEG with 2,000 watts with low plants numbers of course.

But let's do some calculations so we can get some real numbers:

Just some calculations for reference.

Circumference = 2pi (r)

In inches we got 301.44 inches

Now divide that by 60 plants per floor = 5" per plant.

Now for how many gallons per plant and we get about 0.8 gallons at most and there's still some wasted space in the middles where the system comes together and the soil isn't filled all the way to the tipity top so it's actually less than 0.8 gallons of medium per plant. So it sounds like this system is going to root bound plants pretty fast which is going to require lot of watering.

My predictions is that you are going to average at most 12 grams per plant. Some will be more, some will be less. If you get that, it would be 3,240 grams. The problem is when you are dealing with that many plants in 1 system, you're going to have runts.

Now you have to consider how many MOMs that you need for a system like that compared to another type of system that can yield big numbers with low veg times and many less plants. These are all factors that a grower has to consider when choosing a system.

But the benefit that you have going for you is you are working with 200 square feet while 2 Gavita's at their best would only be 100 square feet. But in reality you people have to look at things in Cubic Feet instead to compare grows styles to. No one really does that though. When you look at it that way, Vertical and horizontal grows become very similar in amount of space. No vertical grower wants to think about it that way.

But still you only have 5" of width to work with. When we compare that to a type of system that I use, my SCROGs use 6" per site. For 3,000 watts that would be 360 bud sites and you have 270. This is why vertical growing never made any sense to me. You have to get 11.11 grams per site while I only have to get 8.33 grams per site to get 1 gram per watt. Just trying to make sense of everything. Also I only need 2 medium size MOMs in the VEG room for my 30 plants while you need 9 times more MOMs than me which takes up additional lighting and watts. So right there you're losing big time. These types of things need to be taken into account.

In theory when people come with calculation on what a person can yield in a specific system, they account for whatever the best yielding plant is and multiply by all the other plants. But it never works out that way in real life situations. Now prove me wrong so I can eat my words.

According to you post on RollItUP (GrowVert), your product has been out since June 2014 and I can't find a price for it anywhere online. I also called 2 stores on your website about prices and they said that they don't carry them and don't know anything about pricing. I stopped at 2 stores after that. Why is the price such a big secret?

Regardless I'm going to enjoy the show.

 

[Chunkypigs]

It's early, I got popcorn, let's see how it looks in a few months.

Now that we're getting all honest here how much does your unit cost?

 

[VerticalIcon]

Yeah but the roots are kind of restricted and then you need more veg time and training. With 3 Gavita DE's you can get a canopy of 5' x 18' and hit some pretty high numbers as well without being so restricted. So many ways. And it all depends on what your system costs. I feel it cost over 1k not including the light which would be pretty expensive. My RDWC system only cost $450 for a 10 bucket / 2,000 Watt system and I think it's the best system just like you. Easy 4+ pounds with a 2 weeks VEG with 2,000 watts with low plants numbers of course.

But let's do some calculations so we can get some real numbers:

Just some calculations for reference.

Circumference = 2pi (r)

In inches we got 301.44 inches

Now divide that by 60 plants per floor = 5" per plant.

Now for how many gallons per plant and we get about 0.8 gallons at most and there's still some wasted space in the middles where the system comes together and the soil isn't filled all the way to the tipity top so it's actually less than 0.8 gallons of medium per plant. So it sounds like this system is going to root bound plants pretty fast which is going to require lot of watering.

My predictions is that you are going to average at most 12 grams per plant. Some will be more, some will be less. If you get that, it would be 3,240 grams. The problem is when you are dealing with that many plants in 1 system, you're going to have runts.

Now you have to consider how many MOMs that you need for a system like that compared to another type of system that can yield big numbers with low veg times and many less plants. These are all factors that a grower has to consider when choosing a system.

But the benefit that you have going for you is you are working with 200 square feet while 2 Gavita's at their best would only be 100 square feet. But in reality you people have to look at things in Cubic Feet instead to compare grows styles to. No one really does that though. When you look at it that way, Vertical and horizontal grows become very similar in amount of space. No vertical grower wants to think about it that way.

But still you only have 5" of width to work with. When we compare that to a type of system that I use, my SCROGs use 6" per site. For 3,000 watts that would be 360 bud sites and you have 270. This is why vertical growing never made any sense to me. You have to get 11.11 grams per site while I only have to get 8.33 grams per site to get 1 gram per watt. Just trying to make sense of everything. Also I only need 2 medium size MOMs in the VEG room for my 30 plants while you need 9 times more MOMs than me which takes up additional lighting and watts. So right there you're losing big time. These types of things need to be taken into account.

In theory when people come with calculation on what a person can yield in a specific system, they account for whatever the best yielding plant is and multiply by all the other plants. But it never works out that way in real life situations. Now prove me wrong so I can eat my words.

According to you post on RollItUP (GrowVert), your product has been out since June 2014 and I can't find a price for it anywhere online.

Regardless I'm going to enjoy the show.

I a not sure how you came up with some of your numbers. I will try to clarify. If you or anyone has ever used a planter you will know that you can get more plants in them than if using pots because the roots are able to spread. Its great for verticals since you have little space for pots in a stacked system. There is no root binding in these planters. Build one, try it.

I could fit 300 plants in this system using a soil type medium. No lost space in between planters. 12g is very low even for a little ones in there. That's a very low estimate and I would have to hurt my plants to get them yielding that low. And that's still 1gpw.

The 360 bud site to 270 bud site comment is confusing. You have 10 plants, not 270 or 300. Not understanding that comparison. I hear yours is wider. Using 30-20in as the ideal canopy radius for it to fill in is what we use. It will take a lot more veg time for you to fill in 130-150sqft of canopy with 10 plants than 270 or 300. That's the way most do it due to plant count issues. We have grown a lot of big plant canopies. Anyone who has ever packed a lot of plants in a smaller vert knows you can get a better yield with more plants p/day/$. Runts get a spot in the net too.

Wait til the 4th week and the canopy has filled in. Then you can see whether they will be 11g plants or 22g plants.

 

[Snype]

I a not sure how you came up with some of your numbers. I will try to clarify. If you or anyone has ever used a planter you will know that you can get more plants in them than if using pots because the roots are able to spread. Its great for verticals since you have little space for pots in a stacked system. There is no root binding in these planters. Build one, try it.

I could fit 300 plants in this system using a soil type medium. No lost space in between planters. 12g is very low even for a little ones in there. That's a very low estimate and I would have to hurt my plants to get them yielding that low. And that's still 1gpw.

The 360 bud site to 270 bud site comment is confusing. You have 10 plants, not 270 or 300. Not understanding that comparison. I hear yours is wider. Using 30-20in as the ideal canopy radius for it to fill in is what we use. It will take a lot more veg time for you to fill in 130-150sqft of canopy with 10 plants than 270 or 300. That's the way most do it due to plant count issues. We have grown a lot of big plant canopies. Anyone who has ever packed a lot of plants in a smaller vert knows you can get a better yield with more plants p/day/$. Runts get a spot in the net too.

Wait til the 4th week and the canopy has filled in. Then you can see whether they will be 11g plants or 22g plants.

Well like I said, my VEG time for every 10 bucket 2,000 watts in RDWC is 10 days - 2 weeks max. Seems like you also have some Veg time going on. That is for a gram per watt. This is a game of math. 15 plants would equal 3,000 watts which would be 5' x 18' SCROG with a 10 day - 2 week VEG. That would be 360 tops for all the 6" squares in the SCROG. Also many less MOMs in the VEG room. Just showing you some examples.

Also I'd be interested in doing a test of the system if the price was right to do my own independent testing. I called those stores and they said they don't sell your product and don't have any pricing information.

You're only getting scrutinized because you represent a company but tried your best to hide that fact from the beginning. Many companies came on here many times before with outrages claims so I'm just offering some details for people to think about.

 

[VerticalIcon]

It's early, I got popcorn, let's see how it looks in a few months.

Now that we're getting all honest here how much does your unit cost?

Thanks for watching! These systems start at $2,995. Compared to others like the buddha box and aeroponic vertical system at the same price you get 5-10 times more capacity and usability with our systems. We want to keep them as affordable as we can so we are not jacking our costs up like everyone else. Steel is not cheap and these things get heavy with soil and water so we are using a larger gauge for all our parts. The light tube base weighs almost 40lbs alone. These systems are very solid and designed to hold a very heavy canopy.

 

[VerticalIcon]

Well like I said, my VEG time for every 10 bucket 2,000 watts in RDWC is 10 days - 2 weeks max. Seems like you also have some Veg time going on. That is for a gram per watt. This is a game of math. 15 plants would equal 3,000 watts which would be 5' x 18' SCROG with a 10 day - 2 week VEG. That would be 360 tops for all the 6" squares in the SCROG. Also many less MOMs in the VEG room. Just showing you some examples.

Also I'd be interested in doing a test of the system if the price was right to do my own independent testing. I called those stores and they said they don't sell your product and don't have any pricing information.

You're only getting scrutinized because you represent a company but tried your best to hide that fact from the beginning. Many companies came on here many times before with outrages claims so I'm just offering some details for people to think about.

Absolutely. I understand. I wanted to do a thread and have it focused on the productivity and not who I am associated with. That's irrelevant to me and like now its becoming more of the focus then what I am doing with the system. I am not here to push this product. I am here to do a visual log of my effort to get 2gpw.

Not sure who you spoke with at which store. They do not carry any of these at the locations due to volume/cost issues but all them are interested and offering to distribute these systems. It has taken a few months longer than expected to get parts into production.

I sorta see what you are trying to say with the 360 sites based on 6" squares in your net. We use 2in squares. Your canopy is 5x18ft which is 90sqft. regardless if t is small or large squares. I don't see the 360 bud sites to 270 bud site comparison. Each of the 270 plants has more than one bud site.

 

[Snype]

Absolutely. I understand. I wanted to do a thread and have it focused on the productivity and not who I am associated with. That's irrelevant to me and like now its becoming more of the focus then what I am doing with the system. I am not here to push this product. I am here to do a visual log of my effort to get 2gpw.

Not sure who you spoke with at which store. They do not carry any of these at the locations due to volume/cost issues but all them are interested and offering to distribute these systems. It has taken a few months longer than expected to get parts into production.

I sorta see what you are trying to say with the 360 sites based on 6" squares in your net. We use 2in squares. Your canopy is 5x18ft which is 90sqft. regardless if t is small or large squares. I don't see the 360 bud sites to 270 bud site comparison. Each of the 270 plants has more than one bud site.

I called the store in CO that's on your list. Just so you know what happened. They had no pricing but you answered that here in this thread so now I see it's out of my budget. I asked him if he offered that and he said no. I had to explain to him that you guys had their store name on your site and then he said he could maybe get it. Just helping you out if you need to fix some things with your distribution.

The 360 bud sites to 270 is pretty relevant. No one seems to take into account of vertical space in horizontal grows. Even with the 360 bud sites, that's only tops, there's still middles as well. That's more math. This is more of an argument between Vert and Horizontal because I think they are both the same. Because just square feet alone doesn't mean anything. It's all about Cubic Feet but no one thinks of that. I'm just saying 5" of space per plant is not a lot to work with but I'm still interested and seeing the show. So I'll sit back and watch now. Good luck with the grow and I hope you get 2 GPW.

 

[VerticalIcon]

Thanks Synpe. I am not surprised that there are employees with these retailers that have no clue about us. I was contacted by reps and a couple were from management outside the store. We just got product photos started last week and will be getting that updated with these distributors this week and next. Its a process.

I understand what you were trying to point out now. Yes 5' isn't very much. But they are still able to be spread out, super cropped, like yours and will have the main top plus a few others. Nothing will get trimmed off until the 3rd week or so. I don't want much over lapping of the levels. I do my best to use the entire plant from top to bottom. When done they look like a rib cage that someone opened up and spread out. Even though they are small they can still spread and weave through the plant next to it. Just filling in canopy.

 

[Snype]

Thanks Synpe. I am not surprised that there are employees with these retailers that have no clue about us. I was contacted by reps and a couple were from management outside the store. We just got product photos started last week and will be getting that updated with these distributors this week and next. Its a process.

I understand what you were trying to point out now. Yes 5' isn't very much. But they are still able to be spread out, super cropped, like yours and will have the main top plus a few others. Nothing will get trimmed off until the 3rd week or so. I don't want much over lapping of the levels. I do my best to use the entire plant from top to bottom. When done they look like a rib cage that someone opened up and spread out. Even though they are small they can still spread and weave through the plant next to it. Just filling in canopy.

Very nice! Can't wait to see! I saw a pretty nice grow here the other day where there wasn't a fan leaf on the plants. It looked shocking but the yield looked incredible. Makes me think more about aggressive defoliation. Your system looks real nice. Can't wait to see what it can do.

 

[VerticalIcon]

Here are the latest photos. The 4 level is filling in well, still shooting for 2gpw on that side with 120 plants. They are all more or less consistent in size and look good. We are just starting week 3 on this side.

The 5 level is a different experiment. A lot of the plants were 3-4in when planted. 5 different strains on that side with some having longer flower times. They are all still in week 2. 40 of those plants were put in just out of the cloner basically. Still estimate 1.5gpw on this side. 40% of this side is solid and bushy. It will be interesting to see what the little ones can do right out of the box.

Its worth noting that the plants were planted in the wrong location in the planter. They should be right at the front edge not in the middle. The majority of them on the 5 level were supposed to be moved in last week. This didn't happen and its a little late now. This is an issue for the smaller plants because they are farther from the net and not able to be spread out. There are plants 10in tall that have quite a few nice legs that I can spread out. Unfortunately the guts are a little shadowed because they are 5in from the net.

 

[nonstop]

nice grow! what are the strains? did i miss a post you mention it?

 

[VerticalIcon]

Thanks nonstop. I didn't post any strain types. These have been renamed for branding purposes so I will find out from the genetics guy more specifics. All mostly Sativa. 4 level has some Indica in it.

 

[VerticalIcon]

Saturday update. I wasn't able to get all the info on the exact parenting strains. Seems there is some confusion regarding the background of a few. The 4 level is predominately Indica from what we can tell. Suppose to be 60-40. I will find out more when I talk to the guy who did the genetics.

All the pants are filling in. Plants might be a little short when finished but should have a nice full canopy. They just started pushing the white hairs about 5 or 6 days ago. The plant structures are solid and should fill out very nice. Lots of nice bud sites throughout. This is Day 24

 

[GoodTimeHealing]

Sick Vertical.. Do u plan to treliss or support the flowers at all...

 

[VerticalIcon]

Its hard to see it in the photos, but the net/trellis went in end of week 2. 2x2in squares. Plants have been supercropped/spread out and a lot of good bud sites developing.