25% more yield with a diffused LED ?

[Petrochemical]

Color rendering index

 

[Ca++]

Further down this path of thought, we have auxiliary lighting. Such as the 660/730 combo I bought. It could actually show no gain, as it causes problems with 660 saturation, caused by a lack of supporting light. However, only for areas the reds can see better than the whites. This might be more important for supplemental Blue. Bleaching with red is mostly cosmetic and flavour

 

[JKD]

When I first read that comment about using a fan to move the light I laughed because I thought it meant blowing the photons around. Moments like that make me wonder if I should smoke less.

 

[xet]

Light bleaching is the result of gardeners who do not understand photosynthesis.

 

[Kimes]

In nature the plants thrive and finish fine even with a few cloudy days here and there. They don´t mind losing some photons... Rare is the place where sun is blasting 100% power all day long, every day for 4 months. I love how fast this topic got so deep, such smart people here..! Still can´t quite wrap my head around some issues that seem to affect only powerful LED´s, not HPS or MH for example. You all have a fine weekend now! And thanks for all comments! I am learning new things every day..

 

[Kimes]

Light bleaching is the result of gardeners who do not understand photosynthesis.

Would love to learn more of this...!

 

[xet]

Would love to learn more of this...!

It's a comment about the permanent novices who always kill their plants bc "I've dumped 15 bottles of Cal/Mag, all different brands, all $15 each, on the plant this afternoon and it keeps dying! Can anyone tell me a Cal/Mag brand that works! Hurry!" because they never want to listen to anyone about the objective being to feed the soil.

 

[Koondense]

It's not as simple as it seems.
And technically Ca/My def is not bleaching, so...

Cheers

 

[Ca++]

You shouldn't ever see the sun cause light bleaching. The problem isn't an excess of light. The problem is an excess of red when compared to the other colours. It can happen to cannabis at 800ppfd, if the right boxes are ticked. While 2500ppfd might be fine, in other circumstances. It's a recent study into excess red giving these numbers.

 

[Three Berries]

Calcium Chloride can treat 'bleaching' and works immediately. Foliar or top dress. It's addicting though.

 

[Ca++]

That's interesting TB. They didn't try to fix the issue with food, but rather said it was confused with being a food issue. I can see how the two might interweave though. The process is one where the outer valances of the clorowhatsit get shot to bits. Which I think would be electrons getting snatched. Leaving the clorowhatsit (green bit) unstable, as thus it breaks down. However, it was happy there before. If we could have another thing in the area, happier to give up some electrons, that the green bits need is to get one back.. Then the green might be preserved. The sacrificial bit destroyed. Or rather, it's energy state altered. As changing energy states move electrons between valances, and something like calcium has quite a few, so as they move out, they might be shared more readily.

Did we just touch on quantum entanglement?

I'm so far out of my zone here... I don't know what I am saying. Be right back..

With photobleaching, through several very specific steps, reactive oxygen species generated in the cannabis plant pull electrons off chlorophyll. “When that happens, chlorophyll no longer has the means to hold itself together, so it basically disintegrates.” Hawley says. “Chlorophyll is what makes plants look green, so if it goes away, you're just left with white floral bud tissue.”

I was speed reading before, but in essence, providing these electrons from a more readily available source, would counteract the problem.

 

[Three Berries]

That's interesting TB. They didn't try to fix the issue with food, but rather said it was confused with being a food issue. I can see how the two might interweave though. The process is one where the outer valances of the clorowhatsit get shot to bits. Which I think would be electrons getting snatched. Leaving the clorowhatsit (green bit) unstable, as thus it breaks down. However, it was happy there before. If we could have another thing in the area, happier to give up some electrons, that the green bits need is to get one back.. Then the green might be preserved. The sacrificial bit destroyed. Or rather, it's energy state altered. As changing energy states move electrons between valances, and something like calcium has quite a few, so as they move out, they might be shared more readily.

Did we just touch on quantum entanglement?

I'm so far out of my zone here... I don't know what I am saying. Be right back..



I was speed reading before, but in essence, providing these electrons from a more readily available source, would counteract the problem.

My experiences was very high CO2, cool temps, tent growing LED learning curve, and rainwater all at once. But the new growth would start with yellow tips and proceed to travel down the new leaf and then the burnt spots and crispy edges developed if left on it's own. Old growth unaffected.

Overfertilization I am sure was causing lockout problems, Langbeinite is not as passive as they say, plus heavy nute mixes and no calcium input.

But the CaCl2 works immediately if it's a calcium issue, foliar or top dress @~1200ppm. It's very reactive when mixed with any -OH or Sulfates and precipitates out so doesn't work well when added to nute mixes. I use it in a 2:1 ratio with MgCl2 as homemade Calmag.

 

[Ca++]

I was just reading..

Narrow band red is working (perhaps exclusively) on chlorophyll production. It excites the electrons (the bits that orbit), which then interact strongly with oxygen. Causing the breakdown. At 80% red the lights are getting a bit useless. They easily bleach the plants at any useful illumination. We need the other colours, and the processes they support, to keep sustainable growth.

Just looking at the published articles on many subjects, you can see a lean towards raising LED's being better than dimming them. Same illumination, but somehow higher seems better. Even with bar lights. I wonder if that's a form of diffusion, ensuring that each beam of light has diverged more. We see keeping very low, as more angles of attack, so better penetration. Yet as I play about with this, I see, like others, that some height is a good thing.

I can't imagine my lights inches over cuttings. Where the proliferation of 660leds would actually be over individual cuts almost. Like the red spots on peoples floors. That just isn't the broad white light spectrum we want.

This may be telling us that we want a diffuser at very close range. It seems obvious when you mull it over. We may see diffuse LEDs for cutting lights some time. Diffuse LEDs are common for things like warning lights, that don't want to be a blinding panel. Such as in the car. Not all LEDs are made to provide a beam.
Perhaps we will see clip on covers for our Mars Bars first.

 

[GoatCheese]

Just looking at the published articles on many subjects, you can see a lean towards raising LED's being better than dimming them. Same illumination, but somehow higher seems better. Even with bar lights. I wonder if that's a form of diffusion, ensuring that each beam of light has diverged more. We see keeping very low, as more angles of attack, so better penetration. Yet as I play about with this, I see, like others, that some height is a good thing.

The atmospheric gasses (air) between the grow light and the canopy act as a diffuser – just think about how sun light makes the atmospheric gasses ”glow”.

How it works is; Photons from the Sun hit the molecules/atomic matter of the atmospheric gasses and get absorbed by the molecules – These molecules also release photons attached to them= Photons from the Sun have higher energy state than the photons of the atomic matter, which get agitated and then repelled off the atomic matter when it absorbs the higher energy of the photons that just hit it

...this is how we see colors = higher energy photons from a light source repel photonic matter off the atomic matter, and these photons hold a color depending on the resonance/frequency of the atomic matter.


Hope you guys understand what i’m trying to say. English isn’t my first language and i haven’t been sleeping too well lately which makes me abit foggy.

:::

Yes, if diffusers are an answer to led bleaching, Mars will surely be one of the first using them cause they saw the discussion on ICMag. It’s not like these guys have too many original ideas and some of their lights/ideas are abit bonkers! (= their 800 watt light) They even started threads over here awhile ago to milk proper ideas from us growers. Cunning, ay - like no one understands what they’re really after with these threads.
...they don’t even know how to use their own products. And all you fan boys and girls can suck it! LOL

 

[Koondense]

Sorry to say but it doesn't work this way.
There is practically no atmospheric glow as consequence of scattering in any grow tent. The only thing working as a diffusor is air humidity if it's very high.
You need a hundred kilometers of air and a medium small sized star at 150 million km to do that

If I understand correctly, the point of this thread would be...
Plants yield more if flowering days are cloudy?

Cheers

 

[Ca++]

Lol@Cloudy. I guess it could be. I have not seen the video.

Mars are not doing anything you shouldn't expect. The vast majority of us only know what we learn from others. Most people would ask "where else are you going to learn anything from"
I went straight from here, to the Mars product ideas thread with this. Even gave the product a usp. Telling Mars what we are thinking, actually gets stuff made if it stands up to scrutiny. They keep us happy. Make our shit. Pay towards the forum. Give us free stuff. Sometimes even force it upon us. I think I'm getting a pretty good deal out of them being here.

I'm not sure if other forums are chatting about this. Nor how far they would drag it out

 

[GoatCheese]

Sorry to say but it doesn't work this way.
There is practically no atmospheric glow as consequence of scattering in any grow tent. The only thing working as a diffusor is air humidity if it's very high.
You need a hundred kilometers of air and a medium small sized star at 150 million km to do that

If I understand correctly, the point of this thread would be...
Plants yield more if flowering days are cloudy?

Cheers

You’re always keen to point out – what you think - are mistakes in other people’s post regarding leds, yet you can’t even make your own COBs work.

Maybe few clouds in your grow room could have saved your plants from turning fully yellow under your COBs, Koon! LOL ...yea, i saw how well you know how to use your COBs, professor. F-R-I-E-D.



Having no diffusing effect at all and having little diffusing effect isn’t the same thing. I’m fully aware that the effect isn’t huge in your grow room, that’s why i’m in this thread talking about putting a diffuser in front of leds.
I was talking about how the atmosphere works. I thought it was quite apparent cause i was talking about photons of Sun light.

Yes, water vapor/gas forms part of the atmosphere. There’s water vapor(gas) in the atmosphere even if you don’t have clouds in your grow room, right Koon. I didn’t mention a single gas by name cause i didn’t think it was important. But if you think it’s only water vapor that is acting as a diffuser in the atmosphere then you’re just wrong. STFU

There’s a quite a difference in the thickness of the whole atmosphere and the amount of air between your plants and leds. I was actually gonna type that into the post but then i figured it’s not needed! I was wrong, ay Koon - It's good that we have you on boards to point out all the important specifics, prof

The scientific fact still remains, that the atmosphere acts as a diffuser for any type of light and rays.

 

[GoatCheese]

Lol@Cloudy. I guess it could be. I have not seen the video.

Mars are not doing anything you shouldn't expect. The vast majority of us only know what we learn from others. Most people would ask "where else are you going to learn anything from"
I went straight from here, to the Mars product ideas thread with this. Even gave the product a usp. Telling Mars what we are thinking, actually gets stuff made if it stands up to scrutiny. They keep us happy. Make our shit. Pay towards the forum. Give us free stuff. Sometimes even force it upon us. I think I'm getting a pretty good deal out of them being here.

I'm not sure if other forums are chatting about this. Nor how far they would drag it out

How do people ever learn new things if everyone is just reading stuff from others, explain that to me?
Someone has to figure out how to do new things before they can teach it to others..
Some of you like to talk more than think, i see.

I actually learned how lifting your leds higher AND turning the power up works by myself cause my COBs were messing up my plants. I didn’t read it from the internet. – Why does it work? = Molecular matter of the atmosphere eats out some of the photonic energy before it hits the plant tissue.

I was one of the first ones here on ICMag to suggest that to people lift their white led lights abit higher when they were bleaching their plants – just 10-20cm higher - but alot of guys didn’t want to listen to me few years ago, cause in their minds they were losing too much light that way and their PPFD readings would be off.
..what ever.

:::::::::::

"Keep us happy - make our shit – give us free stuff" ..Who are these us and we you’re talking about?
Mars hasn't given me anything - I have learned nothing from them and i assembled my own grow lights.
Most of the time when it comes to everyday living stuff generalizing statements aren’t very realistic and so not very wise to make.


They give out shit advice to people on how to use their lights and it’s just the copy-and-paste crap every other led company is telling their customers on Ebay or Amazon.

I was familiar with the company before they even were on ICMag. I’m fully aware they learned most of their shit since joining this and perhaps other cannabis forums.
If Mars has learned anything on how to use their own products it’s all from their paying customers or growers like me who have never used their products, so don’t give me that generalizing fanboy bs, my friend.

Peace.

 

[Koondense]

Hey goat cheese, you are free to believe whatever you wish but don't go around and preach it as the truth.
Better reading skills are required for better understanding, from the way you reacted to my comment I can only see you have trouble understanding basic physics and also basic communication skills and especially kindness and will to learn.
Whatever.
Your explanations are still wrong no matter how cocky your responses get...and for the record...I really teach this stuff and make experiments for a living.
Think what you wish goat cheese, when you will be willing to learn and discuss physics, give me a shout, until then I will chuckle at this kind of "cute and silly" interpretations of how things work... Nothing wrong with having an opinion but don't try selling it to me as truth. Silly.

Cheers

 

[goingrey]

The atmospheric gasses (air) between the grow light and the canopy act as a diffuser – just think about how sun light makes the atmospheric gasses ”glow”.

How it works is; Photons from the Sun hit the molecules/atomic matter of the atmospheric gasses and get absorbed by the molecules – These molecules also release photons attached to them= Photons from the Sun have higher energy state than the photons of the atomic matter, which get agitated and then repelled off the atomic matter when it absorbs the higher energy of the photons that just hit it

...this is how we see colors = higher energy photons from a light source repel photonic matter off the atomic matter, and these photons hold a color depending on the resonance/frequency of the atomic matter.


Hope you guys understand what i’m trying to say. English isn’t my first language and i haven’t been sleeping too well lately which makes me abit foggy.

:::

Yes, if diffusers are an answer to led bleaching, Mars will surely be one of the first using them cause they saw the discussion on ICMag. It’s not like these guys have too many original ideas and some of their lights/ideas are abit bonkers! (= their 800 watt light) They even started threads over here awhile ago to milk proper ideas from us growers. Cunning, ay - like no one understands what they’re really after with these threads.
...they don’t even know how to use their own products. And all you fan boys and girls can suck it! LOL

Unless your light source emits a collimated beam (like a laser pointer would), it will spread out even in a vacuum with no atmospheric gases working as diffusers, and become less intense as it spreads out.

Inverse-square law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org