18 hour light cycle

[NiteTiger]

Strainwhore Actually, some of those concerns is what I emailed X10 about, that's what I'm waiting to hear back about, good call!

WeedWrapperMan Great to have some input from someone that tried it! So you didn't notice an increase in yield, just a decrease in flowering time, and actaully had a decrease in yield as well? About how much lighter were the fast flowered crops as compared to the standard cycle? Also, the buds did fully mature? Or was it both immature AND light?

Also, can we get more info on your setup in general, or a link to a grow thread where you used the fast flower cycle?

Sorry to blast you with questions, just very curious.

 

[Rattrap]

just a quick bump to see if any other peeps might have an opnion on this subject.

 

[Guest]

Here's an instance that never happens in nature. Another HT article I was reading was a method for increasing yields called 'diff'. Diff is the difference in tempatures between the night and day cycle.

If you can make the day time temps lower than the night time temp you'll increase yield. What if you combined air conditioning to the day cycle and ran the heater at night then shaved 25% off the flowering cycle with 18 hour days? You can use scenarios that could never occur in nature to increase yield the full 25% I'm betting.

 

[highonthechroni]

i'm gonna try this..

veg - 14 on, 4 off
flower - 6 on, 12 off

correct?

thanks

 

[Rattrap]

Thats an interesting concept dopy taylor, do u happen to remember which issue the artical was in?

chroinc, that sounds about right. what about droping the dark time in flower down to 11hrs or even 10hrs? My bubbleious will go into flower with less much dark than 12hrs or at least it did outside. We were still getting as much as 14 - 15 hrs of light outdoors this season when she started to flower.

 

[xethus]

This method is very interesting. WeedWrapperMan, I would like to know if you felt that overall this method was more efficient. It really only is worth it if the time cut offsets the loss in yield; which you made sound like happened.

 

[Guest]

The 'Diff' article was in the HT Seed Guide 2006. It says on it display til April 2006 so it's still on newstands.

 

[CosmicBadBoy]

Hey guys and gals kinda cool to see my work is being talked about on other boards. Here is a link to the full thread with lots more info then what was on OG.

http://www.advancednutrientsmedical.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=9819

I'm getting a Harvest Master and setting up a new room to run the 18 hour day on. So stay tune. If you've got any questions I will try to answer them.

 

[Rattrap]

This is a topic that i'm very interested in, i'll be closely following your progress badboy.

 

[highonthechroni]

Hey guys and gals kinda cool to see my work is being talked about on other boards. Here is a link to the full thread with lots more info then what was on OG.

http://www.advancednutrientsmedical.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=9819

I'm getting a Harvest Master and setting up a new room to run the 18 hour day on. So stay tune. If you've got any questions I will try to answer them.

great thread!!

 

[NiteTiger]

Very very cool thread CBB! I'm still going to run my experiment over the summer, so that we've got a definaitive side by side test, but your thread definately laid some ground work.

I thought it interesting that you harvested by days instead of trichs - I'm going to have to take that into consideration. I'll probably go by days too, just so there's no ambiguity.

I'm also going to steal your lighting schedule, I like that you set it up to run without having to readjust the timer each week.

Come back around in July, that's most likely when I'll be doing the side by side.

 

[BioMan]

18 hr Short Day ycles: Fast Flowering

Through meeting store owners who are selling our Harvest Master controllers into the field, hearing directly from them and end users what benefits they are achieving, we monitor what we can do next, or what we can do to help.

Best story of all is from a guy thinking just slightly outside the square.

He is getting crop rotations in 7.5 weeks (down from 16weeks) ! (see more below!)

In the following case, nothing needed changing (except perhaps the mindset of the growers in the audience.
Getting an efficient output for the input used is what it is all about.
"Hmmm, says Harvest Master!". I have to be at least a little dubious. But,....
Try his thoughts for size. I have to think that there is something in what he says.

His assertion: ALL species of plant, insect or animal on earth have their "Day period" during which, their efficiency is greater for SOME of that time.

While they can use up to 18hrs of light, maybe for 12 of those, they are at 100%, then drift off to only 60%-70%, then to 20%-30%".

Consider,......

....most days I wake up and am at 90% in 5 minutes, at 100% in 10 minutes.

After 10/12 hrs, I'm flagging badly and while I am happy to stay up another 6-8 hrs, am just "laidback".
My young boy on the other hand, is at 90% within 10 seconds of waking and 100% in 30 seconds. He hits the wall "like a bird flying into plate glass" after 14 hrs, then sleeps like a brick for 10!!
Others however, take an hour to get to 60%, another hour to get to 90%!
Most animals use the time that they are given, to produce the best effect they can achieve with that time.

Plants don’t think, they react to a genetic 'drive to survive'. So, I conclude that there is a case to examine where a short day cycle could trip a plant's genetic response into a "survive or die" accelerated mode to flowering and fruiting.

"He wanted to capture the hours that would give him 90% or better, of the plant's "production" but maybe saving 25-30% of the daylight period" (power being a special consideration).

He set his vegetative cycle at 14hrs day and 4hrs night for an 18hr day
Ran it for 7 days (about 10 "plant days") at 2000ppm CO2
That period gave him sufficient leaf development to proceed with the flowering phase.
The "Fast Flower" 6hr days and 12hr nights regime lasted 45 days.
His crop. "It is better than I EVER had in 16 weeks." Yields?, "I’d say 135-140% of my previous best crops.
"It is so reliable I can set the crop harvest date into my wall planner on day one!" 7weeks and 3 days Harvest. Impressive result. 6 great crops a year, low management of them, every one a winner!
Well, being at least a bit dubious, I thought around the edges and finally concluded that a power usage analysis for the lights ON time per day, per month would be a gauge to the accuracy of the story and maybe prove or disprove it.

My analysis

The claims Leaf phase (light hrs) Flowering phase Total

1. Non CO2 4wks (28days @18hrs) ,12wks (84days @12 hrs) =16wks (1512hrs)

OK but 33% crop failures. 378 lights ON hrs/mth.

2. "Short Cycle" 7day (10cycle@14hr), 45day (60days @6 hrs) =7.4wks (500hrs)

Unbelievable result!

Easy harvest and growth. 250 lights ON hrs/mth.

Great result, especially that the grow room/crop management is also massively reduced.

3. Std CO2 cycle: 2wks (14days @18hrs), 10wks (70days @12 hrs) =12wks (1092hrs)

Fantastic crop. 364 lights ON hrs/mth.

Easy harvest.

Supporting evidence.

Indicated power usage for the short phase growing cycle reduces to about 250hrs/mth, from 378hrs/mth, a drop of 33%!.

The grower was a little concerned that in the early period of growing, power accounts were low. He thought there was underestimating of the power meter and was concerned to get a huge "top up" account. The facts were that his power usage dropped to 66%, a saving of 34% (from $500/mth to around $328/mth).
This had a consequential (side) effect of reducing residual heat in the room, nutrient and water tanks, with profound effects reducing mould and fungus problems.
These figures just blow me away. More than we ever envisaged, we have a customer succeeding with crops in a way he could never achieve before.
His total "light ON" period of 500hrs to get a harvest is amazing.
That is only 2/3rds of the time and 50% of power that a regular CO2 equipped growing operation is using.
In just 1/2 of the time at 1/3rd of the power, he has a better harvest than ever achieved with a 16week method.

We should let this guy loose on the government budget!

For the flower seeds he is cropping, he has hit a crop rotation and growing efficiency that would make most people's eyes water.

Good luck to him.

Hope that this is of interest to and your friends out there in Home Growing Heaven

Cheers and best regards

Harvest Master

 

[Rattrap]

so is it possoble to setup an 18 hr day by using 2 x 24hr timers? I haven't been able to find an 18hr timer anywhere.

 

[Jiant_J]

i wasn't able to read the article or the other thread on the adv nutes board, but i am pretty sure i saw the same post.. i am pretty sure you guys have it backwards.. this is waht the jist of it was...

Basically, the plant goes from veg to flower based upon the hours of darkness provided, so one can anchor the flowering cycles at 12 night and change the daytime number as necessary.. within reasonable limits.., so in the case of 18/12, it takes 25% longer to flower because flowering time is in the number of nights. But, you are getting 18 hours as opposed to the usual 12 , so 50% increase in the amount of growth, this number will affect yield. if flowering takes 100 days normally, it will now take 125, but your yield call it 1 lb for the 100 days, will now become 1.5 lbs. so, 1.5/125 is definitely a significant increase over 1/100, about 20 % increase in the grow's productive powers.

If anyone got this far, i hope it made sense.

stay safe..
JJ

 

[Rattrap]

jiant J i'm afraid u've got it backwards. Its all based on an 18hr day total. This means that weather in veg or flower u're saving 6 hrs a day which dramatically reduces your total crop time & your light usage. So thats a 14/4 veg & a 6/12 flower.

 

[- ezra -]

Hey guys.

-JJ I am afraid you have it backwards mate. (Lol) - you are thinking of a different alternative light schedule. this is another theory all together - to increase the the day length beyond 24 hrs (probably not a very efficient thing to do) in hopes of increasing yield through more light absorbtion in a given light period.

This theory put forwad by Harvest Master & Subsidiaries PTY LTD, is obviously all about reducing to day length in order to speed up crop rotation and increase light efficiency.

Rattrap - (how are ya mate) I think you could use 2 24hr timers to do it, it would be a bit of a pain in the ass, but I reckon you could work it out. Harvest Master & Subsidiaries PTY LTD obviously want you to purchase one of their patented feature packed harvest control omni-system multi-deluxe units. :wink:

 

[Rattrap]

Harvest Master & Subsidiaries PTY LTD obviously want you to purchase one of their patented feature packed harvest control omni-system multi-deluxe units. :wink:

Yeah right like thats ever going to happen! I looked into the price of them the other day. Their basic box starts at around $1400!
Using 2 timers would suck i think, for one thing they are pretty unreliable & trying to get the timers set just right.....
What we need is a real 18hr timer.
Anyone got any good ideas?????

 

[MTF-Sandman]

www.growtronix.com

 

[Rattrap]

i couldn't find a timer at their site sandman

 

[wikidcalibudgrl]

yeah thats the big killer nitetiger. I might have to pull apart one of my timers, see if i can fiddle with it.

Rapp, I'm not sure where you are located, but you can get a digital timer that can have something like 74 on/off ( covers a whole week as well, with each day you COULD set different cycles if you wanted) cycles added to it,, they're hella nice, an cheap too ( like $17.99 i believe is what i got mine for at HomeDepot) let me see if i got a pic of mine still, give you an idea as to what to look for... nope, no pic of it in my gallery ( musta deleted it) but anyways yeah,, go to HomeDepot if you can,,, here's a link to the Home depot site, showing the timer tho :wink:

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDU...earchResults.jsp&MID=9876&N=2984+3004&pos=n04

This sounds like a cool expirement,, good luck to all ya tryin it....