150w HPS Club and Resource Guide......

[DiscoBiscuit]

I think that 3.2 amps is to fire the bulb up. It's operates at 150 watts or they wouldn't advertise such.

My setup costs about $6 a month to operate. A 400, with the necessary exhaust and circulation would probably be closer to $15, maybe $20.

That 3.25 for the 400 looks like operating amps. I bet firing it up takes 2 or 2.5 times as many amps.

 

[CovertCrops]

Ohms law states: volts x amps = watts

I doubt very much they would put start up amperage on one balast type and operating amperage on a different. Not looking to argue just dropping off some info.

 

[sito007]

http://www.e-conolight.com/Product/EProductDetail.asp?FGNumber=E-HC1H151Z&ProductFamilyID=
the model number is E-HC1H151Z
Anyone have this light or have used this for growing?? I'm thinking of getting one..

 

[catman]

I got some pictures

Dried and cured BubbleGum

2/3 of my recent run with the 150w HPS hung vertically.

Left-Princess Diesel x AK47, Middle-Princess Diesel X C99, Right-BubbleGum

BubbleGum

I got 2 Sativa Pheno BubbleGums overlapping onto this next batch. They are sitting side ways.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Ohms law states: volts x amps = watts

I doubt very much they would put start up amperage on one balast type and operating amperage on a different. Not looking to argue just dropping off some info.

Each and every ballast has a spec sheet that will accompany it. Every spec sheet will provide both the start-up and operating amperage of the ballast.

The 150 and smaller will often times come without a capacitor. A capacitor changes the power factor of the ballast and how it uses the energy.

When we buy a 150 ballast, it will have either a NPF designation (no capacitor included) or HPF (14Mf capacitor included).
A 150 ballast that has a capacitor will have a start-up amperage requirement of about 4.5 - 4.75 amps, and will operate at about 3.2 amps of 120voltAC electricity.
With the capacitor wired in, start-up of a 150 will be around 2.2 amps and operate at about 1.5 amps.
A capacitor for the S55 ballast runs about $20 and is well worth it to save on every costs.
Running the ballast on 220 volts AC saves you even more, as it is far more efficient at that voltage.
BTW...if we look at a Sola brand ballast, we see that they do not come with a capacitor and can be had for about $20. A Venture brand 150hps ballast goes for about $40...it has a capacitor included.

*EDIT
If you wish to upgrade your existing 150hps ballast, this link has the 14uF capacitor needed for less than $10. Easily wired into your existing 150.
http://store.capacitorking.com/ae14280vo150.html
If your ballast has a round or oblong TWO WIRE gadget, that is a capacitor. The 3-wire round thing is the ignitor.


Very nice vert grow, catman!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

A 150 ballast that has a capacitor will have a start-up amperage requirement of about 4.5 - 4.75 amps, and will operate at about 3.2 amps of 120voltAC electricity.
With the capacitor wired in, start-up of a 150 will be around 2.2 amps and operate at about 1.5 amps.
A capacitor for the S55 ballast runs about $20 and is well worth it to save on every costs....

Here's some more info on the subject if anybody cares to see it. I didn't quote the posts in their respective entirety, however you can click the arrow to see the whole post. While these posts include technical aspects (you might need a cap with multiple lights on a single circuit, etc) the financial aspect seems nil in a residential setup.

Hi Vern Equinox,

I posted on this in the OG days and I will explain again here;

The 350 watts you talk about is the total through put of the lamp - it still however only uses the same amount of wattage.

Think of it this way... each lamp is like a closed loop circuit...

when a lamp and ballast have a low power factor they pull more electricity through the ciruit - a portion of this is used to light the lamp - some of it is returned (not used) through the plug back to the line.

when a lamp and ballast has a high power factor the amount of energy returned (not used) is less and less power is pulled out of the wall.

Basically what the capacitator does is store and regulate charge allowing the lamp to only draw what it uses.

The power factor is the ratio of power drawn to power used.

Your power company charges you for how much you use, not how much you draw.

so in no way will your power bill be equivalent to running a 350 watt lamp as you imply.

Your power bill will be the roughly the same with either 150 lamp....

not having a capacitor is not a big deal unless you plan on running more than 2 of them on the same circuit. The capacitor acts as a storage device for charge evening out the current drawn from the circuit. Without it the lamp will draw more current than it uses. The key here is that it just draws it - it doesn't use the extra energy.-suga

tiny_rabid_bird,

The capacitor is a subject that quickly leads to confusion and sometimes missunderstandings... if you want to find the original OG post it's in this thread, reposted by me, and is originally written by faulty (something or other)....

But to describe the difference in short.... imagine the electricity is a river and it needs to be at a certain flow rate to keep your ballast happy and therefore your light lit. Now your light requires more flow to light the bulb initially and then there are dips and peaks in the flow as well, all this means that the light needs to draw a certain flow rate that is higher than what it uses, which is no problem as all circuits are closed (if wired properly) and the excess flows back to the plug. The ratio of power used to power drawn is called power factor. The closer to one the better. Some of the uncapacitated lights will have a power factor closer to .5 meaning they could be drawing as much as twice the power they actually use.

Not a problem again as you pay for the power used, not the power drawn....

....Do I think people that have non-capacitated lamps running (even multiples) should run out and buy capacitors? No....

reeferdan - First I want to make clear that there is no difference in cost of electricity whether you run capacitated or non-capacitated lamps....

That is to say there is no cost savings by running the ventures as opposed to others. The reason to choose the venture over the econolight is if you are in danger of overloading the circuit because the lamps are drawing (not using) more electricity at startup than you planned for - and instead of your two 150s drawing 300 or so watts they draw 600 or more watts (again drawing - not using) and everytime the timmer clicks on you blow a breaker because it can't handle that plus whatever else is on the circuit. Again I have to say that you pay for what the lamp is using which is the same with either ballast - you just draw more electricity through the circuit. Think of it this way - the lamp is a resisiter and it takes 150 watts of electricity out of the flow through the circuit and turns it into light and some heat - now if there's no capacitor the flow through the circuit might be as high as 400watts because that's what's being drawn - if there's a capacitor it is much closer to 150 watts.

Anyways if I remember the econolights do have a pretty good power factor - it's the regent minifloods that are really bad. Check the spec sheet - the power factor should be on there - or email econolight - they'll probably be able to tell you.

If cost is your concern I would go with the $20 complete lamps that people have been posting in the last few pages - it includes a bulb and socket - all you need is a heavy duty extension cord and a female plug plus the DIY linked in my signature (converting a security lamp) and you'll be good to go...

Lets set the record straight once and for all.....

Capacitors in HPS lighting do NOT affect or have anything to do with the operation of the lamp/fixture. They are only there to improve the achieved or rated Power Factor. Pull it out and the lamp will work fine. If you are growing in your home, or a small business environment, where you pay your electric bill based in Kilowatt Hours, the Power Factor has no meaning to you finacially. It doesn't matter if your P-Factor is 0.1 or 0.9, it costs the same to operate and produces the same amount of light. Power Factors only come into play in a commerical environment in which your electrical bill has whats sometimes referred to as a KVA Apparent Load calculation built into it. In this situation, a commericial bill can be kept in check by working towards higher PF's.

The only other advantage to a fixture with a Power-Factor correcting capacitor is again relative to a commericial environment. Such fixtures reduce the line or ballast input current. This reduction allows engineers to design individual circuits with more lighting points connected before reaching maximum load. In theory, could this come into play in a home-grow? Maybe if you had a huge set-up and were running multiple 1000 watt lamps on a single circuit, but then you wouldn't be posting in the 150HPS club, would you?

I hope this clears things up.

I often say that this is just my 2 cents and humble opinion, however in this case, these are the facts.

Heat is a factor, and with no power factor correction there is more heat generated, no?

On a 150 you'd have a tough time measuring the difference, if there was any. If heat is a concern, the first rule is to keep your ballast outside of the growing space. This is ture for any type of HID lighting system.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

A 150hps ballast will draw ~3.2 amps when it is operating if it does not have a capacitor.
A 400hps ballast will draw ~3.9 amps when it is operating, and it always has a capacitor.
A capacitor incorporated into a 150 ballast will draw ~1.5 amps.
(so a comparison of a 150 and a 400 would be 1.5 vs 3.9)

It is what it is, and your electric bill will reflect the numbers...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

A 150hps ballast will draw ~3.2 amps when it is operating if it does not have a capacitor.
A 400hps ballast will draw ~3.9 amps when it is operating, and it always has a capacitor.
A capacitor incorporated into a 150 ballast will draw ~1.5 amps.
(so a comparison of a 150 and a 400 would be 1.5 vs 3.9)

It is what it is, and your electric bill will reflect the numbers...

Thanks for the technical info. This additional information helps determine whether it's of financial significance.

If you are growing in your home, or a small business environment, where you pay your electric bill based in Kilowatt Hours, the Power Factor has no meaning to you finacially. It doesn't matter if your P-Factor is 0.1 or 0.9, it costs the same to operate and produces the same amount of light. Power Factors only come into play in a commerical environment in which your electrical bill has whats sometimes referred to as a KVA Apparent Load calculation built into it. In this situation, a commericial bill can be kept in check by working towards higher PF's.

I don't know the gentleman that posted this info but he seems to differentiate between commerical and residential applications. This seems to be relevant and I thought it deserved a re quote.

 

[Pipedream]

I really hate to keep beating a dead horse, however, Sugabear got it 100% right in his previous quotes. Namely, it ain't gonna cost you nothing and has no bearing in a residential setting.

But don't take my word for it, I was only an Licensed Practicing Electrical Engineer for over 25 years before I retired. Instead here's a quote directly from BC Hydro, you know them, they provide most of the electricity to the fine folks in Canada....

"BC Hydro will add a surcharge to the electrical bill of commercial and industrial customers who do not maintain a power factor of at least 90 per cent. Customers can correct their low power factor through the proper selection, sizing and installation of capacitors."

The operative words here are INDUSTRIAL and COMMERCIAL. Their website also states that increased Power Factors do not lower residential bills or the KWH used in a residential setting. This same info has also been released "Edison International" they're the nice people that own and operate "Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station" the largest nuclear generating facility in the US. Just go to your own power companies website and do a search for "Power Factor", you'll more than likely come up with the same info. I checked PSE&G and Con-Ed and they both had similar data.

OK, that was my last comment on the subject. : SORRY.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Power factor aside, do you think that it costs more to run a 150HPS without a cap. than it does to run with?
And if there is no difference, where is this information? Where could a dummy like me find such info?
Again, forget the power factor ratings. Are they not irrelevant to this discussion anyway?
Show me the info that confirms it costs the same to run a 150 with or without a capacitor. I'd like to have a grasp of that concept.
Hell...throw start-up out as well (which is all the power factor rating concerns anyway even in the industrial setting, yes?).

 

[bengie187]

Well hoosier im thinking of wiring a cap into my 150 circut only to reduce the amp draw....my lamp atm is rated at 4.2 and 2.2 with one.....so im figuring on it reducing my power useage by half but i wont know till i put it on and fire it up....

 

[hoosierdaddy]

One thing for certain, the Fluke doesn't lie.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

That's the truth. Expensive little boogers too.

 

[Jstone]

Here's some more info on the subject if anybody cares to see it. I didn't quote the posts in their respective entirety, however you can click the arrow to see the whole post.

That's hilarious Disco,
I spent an hour reading through those same old posts from that same night trying to compile it all, but you did a way better job.

Pipedream and Sugabear explained it dead on.
For those that aren't understanding, your fluke will measure what the circuit is going through the circuit, some coming some going:

"when a lamp and ballast have a low power factor they pull more electricity through the ciruit - a portion of this is used to light the lamp - some of it is returned (not used) through the plug back to the line.

and

Your power company charges you for how much you use, not how much you draw."

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Ahh, well explain to me how many amps of 120vac it takes to run a 150 HPS?
How many of these amperes am I sending back down the line?
I can easily make sense of a ballast with a low power factor pulling more energy than the same lamp with a corrected power factor. But, amp draw is a result of work created.
I totally have my brain around motors and their relationship to incoming power, but this thing does not compute. Unless of course someone can explain it in detail, I suppose I need to do some study. I guess an absolute number of what it takes to fire the lamp would be a good start...but I was getting that info from the spec sheets. I suppose these spec sheets mean nothing to someone like me who doesn't understand this concept you guys seem to have a full picture of.
Oh, I can easily understand the theory...but I want to hear how and why this actually works? I understand how if a man is generating power, his excess can be sent back down the line, but the ballast creates no power. It only uses it.
Help.

*OK, I am becoming educated.
After some reading, I think I have a grasp of the phase shifting that is happening, and how it is handled.
I also understand it takes 150 watts to fire a 150 hps....

 

[Pipedream]

Hoosier, only because I love you, I’m going to rack my brain and think back to my days at NCE. (now known as, New Jersey Institute of Technology) Yes, I just dated myself.

AC power is transmitted most efficiently when both the current and the voltage are perfectly in phase. Once there is a phase shift between them losses occur. In school we used to demonstrate this with a simple diagram. A train engine pulling a car that runs on a parallel track while they are connected by a chain. If the car was directly behind the engine they would be in phase and 100% of the energy would be transmitted to the car (load). Because of the angular shift, (read phase shift) a portion of the forward energy is lost in the chain due to the sideways fraction of the pulling force. This difference is also known as Real Power (over) Apparent Power or the Power Factor.

Much like those motors you say you’ve got a good grip on, our ballasts are inductive devices with a large coil. As such, a magnetic field needs to be built every time the AC power surges thru it, basically 60 times a second. As the current is busy building the magnetic field, the voltage runs on ahead. This creates the phase shift within the circuit. The issue gets further complicated each time that magnetic field collapses. At that time the coil actually generates electricity which it feeds back into the line.

Placing a capacitive load in the circuit does two things…first, as it is opposite in the effect of an inductor it has on phase-shifting, it will counteract the inductive load of the coil and second, it will store and release the small variations in voltage created by the collapse of the magnetic field and line variations allowing the coil to work more efficiently.

So it comes down to this… a circuit with a poor or low Power Factor will require more amperage to deliver the same amount of work power. However, in residential services power companies charge for the amount of work done measured in Kilo Watt Hours not the power it took to deliver it in Amperage, when determining your bill.



EDIT: Sorry, I just re-read this three times. I was slightly stoned when I wrote it and I still am now. I'm not sure its really clear. I'll try to re-read it again when my head clears in while. (LOL)

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Pipedream, thanks for taking the time to explain in a way that those of us (not) in the know can understand.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pipedream again.

 

[work2fish]

whats up guys, been lurkin kinda postin here on and off for a bit now.

I threw up a 150 watt grow a couple months ago got hooked and before I knew it had 10 different lights going in 3 different spots. I got hooked, and got my friends hooked to so i can have more places to grow ahahah.

I am starting to get good yields and high quality this next run will be my 8th cycle but I havent busted out the 150 since my first grow.

Its hard to go back to this but its necessary as all my other runs have come to an end.


So to get this started back here again.

SEED SELECTION! I grew all my cycles thru clones (california med patient) and now I need some help picking seeds.

Figured the 150 watters know what beans would do best under 150!

so any help would be appreciated guys.

I grow hydro but will be doing these next couple cycles in soil.

thanks in avdance!!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

work2fish, as long as your footprint doesn't exceed 150hps capability, you can grow anything. Some sativas are comparatively poor yielders to hybrids and indicas, however your grow style can help in these cases. A hybrid or indica should SOG, LST or SCROG well.

If you SOG sativas, headroom and light penetration will be a factor. Keep them relatively short and keep the light as close as possible to get best penetration.

IMO, low yielding sativas would do best in a SCROG but LST may get you where you want to be yield-wise.

 

[Frankenstein]

So i cut down the smaller one today, didnt wanna wait ten days so 7 days of flushing should have done it anyway, i broke off a fan leaf before i cut her and tasted the juice, was like pure water, not a bitter taste. I pulled about 188g wet from her and i quick dried about 6g of it. Burnt a nice clean white ash. Was a intense head high lasted for about a hour or so, some pretty dank stuff considering it came from a random bag. well im glad to say it oudoes the shit i get usually lol. All in all im expecting about a oz to a oz and a half dry, the high should be awesome after a couple of weeks of curing.

Top cola