1.8lb+ per light vert tree grow?
- Thread starter Shafto
- Start date
D
DHF
How long did it take to get your yields cuz that`s a factor...but...
Big plant grows are available if yas search Heath Robinson and Krusty buckets for well over 3 lbs per 1K light....in a timely manner as well....
Peace...DHF...
.....
Big plant grows are available if yas search Heath Robinson and Krusty buckets for well over 3 lbs per 1K light....in a timely manner as well....
Peace...DHF...
.....Been through Heaths grow numerous times and seen quite a few on here.
I use a Heath style hydro system (except I find you don't need near as much flow as he states, I use a little 13W water pump for my plant). I take a clone from the plant as soon as I switch to 12/12, so takes me 65-70 days (same time it takes to bud) to clone and veg under a 250W MH before I switch to 12/12 under the 1000W HPS, then I take another clone and do it all again.
Doesn't make much sense to go vertical with 1 plant and 1 bulb, that's why I didn't. For 7 plants I think it might make more sense to though, and that's probably why you don't see many (any?) people doing a single plant on a 4x4 horizontal scrog screen.
I use a Heath style hydro system (except I find you don't need near as much flow as he states, I use a little 13W water pump for my plant). I take a clone from the plant as soon as I switch to 12/12, so takes me 65-70 days (same time it takes to bud) to clone and veg under a 250W MH before I switch to 12/12 under the 1000W HPS, then I take another clone and do it all again.
Doesn't make much sense to go vertical with 1 plant and 1 bulb, that's why I didn't. For 7 plants I think it might make more sense to though, and that's probably why you don't see many (any?) people doing a single plant on a 4x4 horizontal scrog screen.
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shafto, your yields are high already (if we ignore veg time). I would go with what you know until you have some breathing room and harvests in the expanded setup under your belt.
Jumping to vert does not automatically yield more than horizontal, especially in a long vegged scrog and it is hard to yield more per square foot of grow space than what your doing now. If you were to turn that 1k vertically, you'd need a bigger space for that 1k.
If you had two 4x8 tents with 2K watts in each, pulling the same kind of numbers as now,you'd be doing better than most growers, horizontal, or vertical with alot less work and only 4 plants.
also, you could get that 2.5 pounds per light with more plants in the same space using your horizontal scrog. 3lbs per light is not exclusive to vertical
Jumping to vert does not automatically yield more than horizontal, especially in a long vegged scrog and it is hard to yield more per square foot of grow space than what your doing now. If you were to turn that 1k vertically, you'd need a bigger space for that 1k.
If you had two 4x8 tents with 2K watts in each, pulling the same kind of numbers as now,you'd be doing better than most growers, horizontal, or vertical with alot less work and only 4 plants.
also, you could get that 2.5 pounds per light with more plants in the same space using your horizontal scrog. 3lbs per light is not exclusive to vertical
I started planning things out for my space, about 12x16'
With my current method I could fit 12 lights (12,000 watt) in that space, with 12 plants, each over a 4x4 square. If I went straight vertical with 60" centres it would fit 7 plants and 8 lights. Even if I got more per light, it would be less overall for the space.
So, then I got to thinking.. If I'm using 8 1000W lights vertically, and put in a 600W above each plant, I would have 12,200 watts.. perfect.
I did some cad to help me visualize everything. With the vertical/horizontal hybrid I would have less training work, probably shorter veg time, and ~256 square feet of canopy area vs. 192 square feet for the horizontal scrog.
Either way.. this is gonna be fun, but I'm leaning to the hybrid option now.
With my current method I could fit 12 lights (12,000 watt) in that space, with 12 plants, each over a 4x4 square. If I went straight vertical with 60" centres it would fit 7 plants and 8 lights. Even if I got more per light, it would be less overall for the space.
So, then I got to thinking.. If I'm using 8 1000W lights vertically, and put in a 600W above each plant, I would have 12,200 watts.. perfect.
I did some cad to help me visualize everything. With the vertical/horizontal hybrid I would have less training work, probably shorter veg time, and ~256 square feet of canopy area vs. 192 square feet for the horizontal scrog.
Either way.. this is gonna be fun, but I'm leaning to the hybrid option now.
icdog
Member
I would say the expanded flat scrog would take allot of time to relocate the shoots till stretch is done. Depending how big the plant was when put into the system, under a 1000k it should take about 2 - 3 weeks to stretch to cover the 4x4 space. That's allot of training time compared to the standard vertical tree setup. Also u need the space around the 4x4 to reach everywhere.
With experience I pull 1lb from a vertical setup first shot. 1.8 and more is doable with tinkering. I would say standard vertical setup is your best bet.
With experience I pull 1lb from a vertical setup first shot. 1.8 and more is doable with tinkering. I would say standard vertical setup is your best bet.
Training and light distribution is key to yielding well.
I take a lot of data and am pretty scientific about my approach to growing. From what I've recorded canopy area and even light distribution make the biggest difference. (assuming you already have your environment set).
If I used a 1000W bulb with 4 plants on a half pipe type arrangement I think I could probably get near 3lb. Too difficult to train a single plant that high on the sides though, it likes to go high in the centre which is counter productive, but keeps me at one plant for one light, which I like.
I think with the hybrid option I can get the best of both worlds, low plants, tons of canopy surface area, and very even lighting. Pretty sure I'm going to try the hybrid.
I take a lot of data and am pretty scientific about my approach to growing. From what I've recorded canopy area and even light distribution make the biggest difference. (assuming you already have your environment set).
If I used a 1000W bulb with 4 plants on a half pipe type arrangement I think I could probably get near 3lb. Too difficult to train a single plant that high on the sides though, it likes to go high in the centre which is counter productive, but keeps me at one plant for one light, which I like.
I think with the hybrid option I can get the best of both worlds, low plants, tons of canopy surface area, and very even lighting. Pretty sure I'm going to try the hybrid.
Not my style (I'm a vert guy), but looks like a decently well put together system. The only critique I would give is I'd go ahead and trim off those lower branches. Also it's kinda hard to tell but it looks like they could use more light, or move the lighter closer or something. Installing two more lights would help; they don't even necessarily need to be high wattage, just more lights. Get rid of the flex tubing....it's a horrible restriction. Hard ducting is the way to go. The plants look pretty healthy. That's an ebb and flow setup I guess? I like the cleanliness of how everything is put together.
I wouldn't say it's way better than my setup, because my setup serves a different purpose. Mine is in some ways a prototype for a bigger, more commercial (i.e. legalized) system. It's designed to save me labor at all costs, as well as meet a number of other parameters. The current iteration looks like a joke compared to what I plan to build when time and budget allows. I would never do a setup like yours just because I don't prefer to spending that time growing the plant out, routing branches, trimming, etc....but there's no doubt you could hit 1.8 GPW with that setup if everything is right.
I am probably hovering at an abysmal .8 GPW right now (normally 1.0-1.2) just because my flower room isn't well insulated, and this winter has wreaked havoc with slowing plant growth, nutrient uptake, etc. This summer when things are more dialed in and I get the blumats installed, heater, dehumidifier etc, I don't think 1.5 GPW would be an unreasonable number to shoot for, especially if I move to a bigger (longer) room with more lights. Not bad at all considering I will have practically zero daily maintenance involved with veg and flower rooms, very little labor, leaving me to do other things like play with breeding projects. The thing is....GPW is one of only many metrics that can be used to measure a grow.
Now whether you have actually have hit such a high number as 1.8gpw, is unclear from your pics. Start up a grow thread and I'll keep an eye on it....
I wouldn't say it's way better than my setup, because my setup serves a different purpose. Mine is in some ways a prototype for a bigger, more commercial (i.e. legalized) system. It's designed to save me labor at all costs, as well as meet a number of other parameters. The current iteration looks like a joke compared to what I plan to build when time and budget allows. I would never do a setup like yours just because I don't prefer to spending that time growing the plant out, routing branches, trimming, etc....but there's no doubt you could hit 1.8 GPW with that setup if everything is right.
I am probably hovering at an abysmal .8 GPW right now (normally 1.0-1.2) just because my flower room isn't well insulated, and this winter has wreaked havoc with slowing plant growth, nutrient uptake, etc. This summer when things are more dialed in and I get the blumats installed, heater, dehumidifier etc, I don't think 1.5 GPW would be an unreasonable number to shoot for, especially if I move to a bigger (longer) room with more lights. Not bad at all considering I will have practically zero daily maintenance involved with veg and flower rooms, very little labor, leaving me to do other things like play with breeding projects. The thing is....GPW is one of only many metrics that can be used to measure a grow.
Now whether you have actually have hit such a high number as 1.8gpw, is unclear from your pics. Start up a grow thread and I'll keep an eye on it....
Hey, lets not get another thread deleted. I was having fun watching that last one, but getting threads deleted sucks.
Shafto, check this thread out https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=221265.
It is Marlo's Wall of Weed. He is only using 2x600 watterss, but may be something you would be interested in. Also, check Maina's thread. Good luck man, I am hitting 1GPW with my stadium, will hopefully be beating that on the next run.
Vert section is awesome, any help you need you will get here. Not sure if your gonna get any papers on the subject though(I am sorry, I couldn't help haha)
Good luck homey, holler if you got any ?s
aod
Shafto, check this thread out https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=221265.
It is Marlo's Wall of Weed. He is only using 2x600 watterss, but may be something you would be interested in. Also, check Maina's thread. Good luck man, I am hitting 1GPW with my stadium, will hopefully be beating that on the next run.
Vert section is awesome, any help you need you will get here. Not sure if your gonna get any papers on the subject though(I am sorry, I couldn't help haha)
Good luck homey, holler if you got any ?s
aod
I went horizontal for this smaller setup, but I'm going to try vertical/horizontal hybrid for the new setup.
The silverstar reflectors I'm using have a bad hotspot in the middle, I just moved them further away after I took the pics. I like to stay about 20-22" or so. Gets more light out to the sides as well, where it could use some more indeed. An even reflector really helps, but hard to come by, another reason for bare bulb vert.
It's not very labour intensive, not for 2 plants anyway. It takes 2-3 days for the shoots to grow up, and then you spend 15minutes each plant bending them down. I only do it 4-5 times and it's done.
The system is a Heath style constant flow system, but I use a much smaller pump than he recommends. A 13W pump for each side. I like a separate pump for each plant because there's no pressure build up and restriction as in a single pump manifold system with valves for flow control. (kinda just like a larger air duct with an axial fan compared to a higher resistance smaller ducted system with a centrifugal) JK, JK!.... please nobody reply to the brackets.. haha.
Thanks for the link AOD, I'll check that out for sure.
The silverstar reflectors I'm using have a bad hotspot in the middle, I just moved them further away after I took the pics. I like to stay about 20-22" or so. Gets more light out to the sides as well, where it could use some more indeed. An even reflector really helps, but hard to come by, another reason for bare bulb vert.
It's not very labour intensive, not for 2 plants anyway. It takes 2-3 days for the shoots to grow up, and then you spend 15minutes each plant bending them down. I only do it 4-5 times and it's done.
The system is a Heath style constant flow system, but I use a much smaller pump than he recommends. A 13W pump for each side. I like a separate pump for each plant because there's no pressure build up and restriction as in a single pump manifold system with valves for flow control. (kinda just like a larger air duct with an axial fan compared to a higher resistance smaller ducted system with a centrifugal) JK, JK!.... please nobody reply to the brackets.. haha.
Thanks for the link AOD, I'll check that out for sure.
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If you are happy with the results you get vs the effort needed to get those results then I say don't fix it if it isn't broken. It sounds like the only real down side to how you do things is how long it might take to fill the screen using one plant.
If you start doing things differently just because that's the standard approach you might not be as happy and/or you might not have as much success because it would be new and foreign to you even though it's thought of as an industry standard.
Hempkat you could be right, but I suppose I'm not satisfied.
I think I can lower veg time, even though I'll be using less plants, have better light distribution, and more canopy surface area.
If I don't do as well per watt after a few tries and haven't been able to figure out why I can always revert.
I think I can lower veg time, even though I'll be using less plants, have better light distribution, and more canopy surface area.
If I don't do as well per watt after a few tries and haven't been able to figure out why I can always revert.
True and if you're willing to do what is needed to realize your hybrid system and go back if you're not satisfied then go for it. I got the impression at first you weren't really wanting to do all that which is why I said, if it isn't broke don't fix it.
Interesting read Shafto. I've only done three scrog (tent) grows under a 600w. First pull was an awful 0.54gpw. I'm waiting to pull the other two over the next two weeks, which I hope to be an improvement. I am very tempted by DHF suggestion of a HR style tree grow. I know he pulls amazing weights with all of his grows, but his systems are generally geared to be efficient. And let's be honest, we all want our grows to be as cost efficient as possible. Personally I'd rather concentrate on trying one system at a time and give it all my attention than a bit of this and a bit of that. But that's just my opinion. Good luck with your choice and I look forward to seeing how it develops.
zamzia
zamzia
