Panama reg’s go micro

OZZ_ · Aug 30, 2019

What up IC!??

This will be my official grow thread for my panama regs. I’m a bit early as my flower cabinet is currently occupied, but these Panamas don’t seem to want to wait. I have 7 panama regs, 4 of which literally look like identical, two of which are intermediary and one that is short, squat and bushy. They are in 1 liter pots as of now.

I don’t have much space to work with as my micro cabs are small.

Here’s the deets:

Veg cab: 23” L x 16” D x19” H

3000 lumens mix spectrum LEDs 5000k/6500k

1500 RPM 53 cfm noctura PC fan with homemade carbon scrubber (mesh pencil holders)

Flower cabinet: 23” L x 16” D x 35” H
AC infinity 205 cfm DC fan with temp controller and AC infinity scrubber.

Simple Organic soil mix promix hp, homemade worm castings, a generic granular fert (tomato tone, etc) a bit of lime and if needed Neptune’s fish/seaweed during Flower. RO water.

Currently have a HLG-100 panel in there at 15,000 lumens but I just got a dimmable solsheet in at 27,000 lumens that I’ll be putting in next week.

I have a OG x GDP fem freebie in there that’s just shy of 4 weeks flower so these panamas are going to have to hang tight on limited space for probably another 5 weeks. I’m all ears on how to manage them during that time.

Without further ado, here they are. Any guesses on phenotypes that I might be looking at? As mentioned, four are taller and lankier, and extremely similar. Two are middle of the road with one being super short and Squatty.

OZZ_ · Aug 30, 2019

The veg cab:

The flower cab:

OZZ_ · Aug 30, 2019

The Panamas:

Here’s the four that seem to be identical:

And off to the right the two medium height plants and the short, squatty bushy one in the back:

troutman · Aug 30, 2019

Good Luck.

The Hatter · Aug 30, 2019

I grew Ace Panama years ago so the version I ran is probably a bit different than this most recent one, but one thing I think I need to warn you about is how vigorous pure sativas can be. If you've grown real tropical sativas before then you know what you are in for, but if you haven't then start reading up on controlling stretch. Unlike indica dominant hybrids which barely stretch at all, pure sativas can grow explosively after being put into flower. Luckily Ace Panama is very heavily worked and short flowering for a pure tropical sativa, but even so don't be surprised to see some of your plants more than tripling in size once in flower.

I've seen people do some absolutely insane stuff with micro grows so I won't say it's impossible, but it will be challenging to grow these out in such a tiny space after vegging them for another 5 weeks.

Under normal indoor growing conditions my Panamas ended up between two and three feet tall at about the 5 or 6 week mark when left to grow naturally. After flipping the lights at around that time the tallest and most vigorous had to be tied down and they still ended up in the lights. The tallest were a bit over 6ft tall by harvest time.

Under weak lighting they will grow more slowly and you can further inhibit growth by purposely limiting their root space. Another way to inhibit growth is to cut back the hours of light they get per day to near the minimum needed to keep them from flowering if you haven't already done that.

5 weeks is a LOT of additional veg time for this strain. You might want to think about cloning them if you need to arrest their development for over a month. That way you can hold onto the moms if you have a space for them and you can look for a keeper from the flowering results of the clones. By timing when you take your clones you can precisely control how big they will be when the flower cabinet is free again.

Edit: After taking a quick look at your profile it's quite clear this isn't your first rodeo. I doubt you needed any of my cautioning about how stretchy tropical sativas can be. Also, those cabinets are pretty amazing.

Koondense · Aug 30, 2019

Why is there a glass between the led and the plants? You are losing some light that way, i guess for heat control?

Very nice looking setup by the way

Cheers

OZZ_ · Aug 30, 2019

Koondense said:
Why is there a glass between the led and the plants? You are losing some light that way, i guess for heat control?

Very nice looking setup by the way

Cheers

Hi Koon! Welcome aboard! Yes the glass heat shield was designed and installed to trap the heat up near the top of the cabinet so the exhaust could eliminate it more effectively. I have since upgraded my exhaust system and scrubber and now have more cooling power so I have since taken the glass shield out. Also as mentioned, I just got in a solstrip solsheet.... 3 solstrip X2s on a dimmable 120w HLG driver. I’ve seen peeps getting their plants within inches of the solstrips so I went that route to utilize as much vertical space as possible. I have another thread here of my current grow:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=365060

.... but I suppose I should post a few more pics of the cab here so you all can see what I’m working with. Keep in mind the lighting will be swapped out next week to the solsheet.

Flowercab:

New Exhaust system/scrubber:

This girl was simply a freebie fem I received on a past order. I always test run freebies in a new cabinet to make sure everything is dialed in before breaking into my good genetics. I didn’t veg her long on purpose because I don’t want these panamas to have to wait any longer than they already have to so I’m flowering her out small. I had a bit of an issue with light pollution during the dark cycle because of a small PC fan controller that had a small LED on it, so the test freebie got stressed and hermed on me. Im currently picking balls off her to get her to the finish line but the pc fan controller has since been removed and the issue is rectified with the new exhaust/scrubber combo that is now relocated to the outside of the cab:

OZZ_ · Aug 30, 2019

Once I get the new solsheet installed next week, all the Kinks should be worked out and I’ll be ready to select a nice panama girl to put into the flowering cabinet.

The current OGxGDP freebie is doing well regardless of the stress brought on by tweaking the cab during her grow. As you can see, no more homemade carbon scrubber inside the cab, and no more glass heat shield either. What you can’t see is because of that modification there’s about 4 more inches of space above the light that I can use now. Next week when I mount the solsheet it will be mounted higher than this HLG panel is now, gaining me another 3-4” of space. Like the ladies always say, every inch counts! These girls are no different LMAO

OZZ_ · Aug 30, 2019

troutman said:
Good Luck.

Thanks for stopping by trout! I appreciate the best wishes.

OZZ_ · Aug 30, 2019

The Hatter said:
I grew Ace Panama years ago so the version I ran is probably a bit different than this most recent one, but one thing I think I need to warn you about is how vigorous pure sativas can be. If you've grown real tropical sativas before then you know what you are in for, but if you haven't then start reading up on controlling stretch. Unlike indica dominant hybrids which barely stretch at all, pure sativas can grow explosively after being put into flower. Luckily Ace Panama is very heavily worked and short flowering for a pure tropical sativa, but even so don't be surprised to see some of your plants more than tripling in size once in flower.

I've seen people do some absolutely insane stuff with micro grows so I won't say it's impossible, but it will be challenging to grow these out in such a tiny space after vegging them for another 5 weeks.

Under normal indoor growing conditions my Panamas ended up between two and three feet tall at about the 5 or 6 week mark when left to grow naturally. After flipping the lights at around that time the tallest and most vigorous had to be tied down and they still ended up in the lights. The tallest were a bit over 6ft tall by harvest time.

Under weak lighting they will grow more slowly and you can further inhibit growth by purposely limiting their root space. Another way to inhibit growth is to cut back the hours of light they get per day to near the minimum needed to keep them from flowering if you haven't already done that.

5 weeks is a LOT of additional veg time for this strain. You might want to think about cloning them if you need to arrest their development for over a month. That way you can hold onto the moms if you have a space for them and you can look for a keeper from the flowering results of the clones. By timing when you take your clones you can precisely control how big they will be when the flower cabinet is free again.

Edit: After taking a quick look at your profile it's quite clear this isn't your first rodeo. I doubt you needed any of my cautioning about how stretchy tropical sativas can be. Also, those cabinets are pretty amazing.

Thanks for the input Hatter! I wrote you a lengthy response and somehow it got lost in the post above. Very frustrating lol. I suspect I’ll keep these plants in veg until they sex out, then pick a nice female, clone her and put that clone into the flowering cabinet when it opens up. 5 weeks sounds about right to get all that accomplished, keeping them happy in such confined quarters during that time is another story!

My girl and I are currently in a metropolitan area in a small condo, all my big boy tents, lights and toys are in storage so this is the best I could come up with given the situation. In a year and a half we are moving and will be buying a house, so I’ll be able to spread my wings once again but for now.... this is what I have to work with so making the best of it

Mountainkush · Aug 30, 2019

Hey OZZ,
Your little test girl looks to be doing great in there and I love how clean of a job you did with small cabinets. Definitely out classes my plywood box for veg lol. Sounds like a great idea to take clones after sexing instead of trying to flower the seed plants. I wish you luck and can’t wait to see what you do with them.

OZZ_ · Aug 30, 2019

Mountainkush said:
Hey OZZ,
Your little test girl looks to be doing great in there and I love how clean of a job you did with small cabinets. Definitely out classes my plywood box for veg lol. Sounds like a great idea to take clones after sexing instead of trying to flower the seed plants. I wish you luck and can’t wait to see what you do with them.

Thanks MK!

I’m looking forward to it! I’ve always had plenty of space to do what I wanted so being faced with space constraints is new to me lol but I’m looking at it as a learning experience and a chance to improve my skills as tighter spaces require tighter control over the environment.

Here’s the crew looking pretty this a.m. I’m seriously considering tossing the three smaller ones on the right and rolling with the four uniform stretchier plants on the left, for better or worse. My luck all four would end up being male lol! Honestly even if that were the case, I have a breeders pack of Panama that just arrived so I could just take the best male at that point and pop a green goddess fem to pair him too. Either way it would be a win-win so it’s likely I’ll end up tossing the three smaller plants to the right.

PandyFackler · Aug 30, 2019

Hey OZZ_

Those Panama babies look very happy. I love how you have the fish tank on top for added stealth. I have also considered doing this. Do you use the fish tank water to water your plants?

I think it’s a good call to sex them first before you cull any. I do think it would be possible to fit 4 or more of them in if you LST them and maybe trim them to just a few growth tips. That’s what I would do anyway but I still have a lot to learn about microgrowing.

After my first attempt I am leaning towards growing a single plant in that size of space. My feeling is that tiny plants = tiny yields, particularly with sativas that want to grow very large.

Just to say it again man, I love your cabs. They are the slickest builds ever.

PF

dubi · Aug 31, 2019

Hi Ozz,

Your Panama seedlings are looking healthy and happy.
I replied to you in your other thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8657193&postcount=10

Please, make only one thread for each grow or topic so it's easier to follow your progresses and suggest you tips. Thanks

The Hatter · Aug 31, 2019

OZZ_ said:
Thanks for the input Hatter! I wrote you a lengthy response and somehow it got lost in the post above. Very frustrating lol. I suspect I’ll keep these plants in veg until they sex out, then pick a nice female, clone her and put that clone into the flowering cabinet when it opens up. 5 weeks sounds about right to get all that accomplished, keeping them happy in such confined quarters during that time is another story!

My girl and I are currently in a metropolitan area in a small condo, all my big boy tents, lights and toys are in storage so this is the best I could come up with given the situation. In a year and a half we are moving and will be buying a house, so I’ll be able to spread my wings once again but for now.... this is what I have to work with so making the best of it

Your cabinets look great and I certainly do understand having very limited space. I am lucky in that I have more space to work with than you currently do, but my grow areas are quite restrictive by most people's standards. The space I'm forced to keep my mothers and clones in is particularly brutal, a converted 10 gallon fish tank.

The one God send in my case is that although the floor space is limited I have the full room height to work with in my main grow/flowering area.

Being a sativa lover is punishing for those of us with limited grow spaces. I wish you the best of luck with this experiment. When looking for prospective clones to keep and flower look for plants with shorter internode spacing and be particularly wary of lanky thin leaved phenos. They are the most likely to go berserk in flowering. You want the faster flowering less stretchy phenos. I know it might seems a bit counter intuitive but that short more densely leafed plant in the back right corner might be a good one as far as what you are looking for goes. It's hard to tell from the photos but it looks healthy, just short and bushy.

You said you were planning to use LEDs as your light source which is good. In my experience plants stretch quite a bit less under LEDs for some reason.

OZZ_ · Aug 31, 2019

PandyFackler said:
Hey OZZ_

Those Panama babies look very happy. I love how you have the fish tank on top for added stealth. I have also considered doing this. Do you use the fish tank water to water your plants?

I think it’s a good call to sex them first before you cull any. I do think it would be possible to fit 4 or more of them in if you LST them and maybe trim them to just a few growth tips. That’s what I would do anyway but I still have a lot to learn about microgrowing.

After my first attempt I am leaning towards growing a single plant in that size of space. My feeling is that tiny plants = tiny yields, particularly with sativas that want to grow very large.

Just to say it again man, I love your cabs. They are the slickest builds ever.

PF

Hey Pandy! Thanks for stopping in, honestly I think I’m learning towards simply running the females one at a time in there and taking clones then diligent notes. Maybe I’d go with two at a time max. When I originally popped these I wanted to do a pheno hunt, but I have since ordered and received the panama breeders pack which separates the phenos so that’s not quite as important to me now.

I might be ok with running two at a time in there, just training them right... I guess I just need to wait until they sex out and see what kind of ratio I’m working with. For sure this is a bit different than the way I’m used to doing things, I’m just kind of winging it this time whereas usually I have a plan! Lol. This week I’ll start some training on them, they are just now hitting their fourth node

OZZ_ · Aug 31, 2019

dubi said:
Hi Ozz,

Your Panama seedlings are looking healthy and happy.
I replied to you in your other thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8657193&postcount=10

Please, make only one thread for each grow or topic so it's easier to follow your progresses and suggest you tips. Thanks

“Hi OZZ,

Honestly i'm thinking and thinking about how to suggest you to make it work, but i seriously believe that height in your veg cabinet is too short, especially for a sativa from seed, also considering you are starting from regular seeds which need to be sexed first.

In your case, to start from a single or maybe 2 high quality feminized seeds of proven quality like Panama fem or Zamaldelica fem would make things easier.

Since in your current case you need to wait until your flowering cabinet is empty, left the seedlings to develop in the grow cabinet with low temps to avoid undesirable stretching, and prune them whevever is necessary if they are overgrowing the space, hopefully after 3-4 weeks of veg you can discard the males and let the rest of the pruned females to branch out, take clones of the females once the current flowering cycle is over and move the panama female clones to the flower cabinet for the upcoming flowering cycle.

Keep us updated and we will see how things evolv“

Hi Dubi,

I saw that and thanks for the input. As mentioned this will be the thread for my panama grow. Sorry for the duplicate post.... feel free to delete the other thread if you like as this will be the thread I update from here on out.

I posted your response up above, and that’s basically the idea I had on how to make this work. I’m going to start training them down next week as they are just now hitting their fourth node.

Thanks for your support :dance013:

OZZ_ · Aug 31, 2019

The Hatter said:
Your cabinets look great and I certainly do understand having very limited space. I am lucky in that I have more space to work with than you currently do, but my grow areas are quite restrictive by most people's standards. The space I'm forced to keep my mothers and clones in is particularly brutal, a converted 10 gallon fish tank.

The one God send in my case is that although the floor space is limited I have the full room height to work with in my main grow/flowering area.

Being a sativa lover is punishing for those of us with limited grow spaces. I wish you the best of luck with this experiment. When looking for prospective clones to keep and flower look for plants with shorter internode spacing and be particularly wary of lanky thin leaved phenos. They are the most likely to go berserk in flowering. You want the faster flowering less stretchy phenos. I know it might seems a bit counter intuitive but that short more densely leafed plant in the back right corner might be a good one as far as what you are looking for goes. It's hard to tell from the photos but it looks healthy, just short and bushy.

You said you were planning to use LEDs as your light source which is good. In my experience plants stretch quite a bit less under LEDs for some reason.

Hatter in the house! I hear ya on all counts. However, I’m working through these seeds to find a nice green pheno. I have Indica strains to be short and squatty... so for better or worse Im not going to shy away from the taller ones because those are the phenos that I’m after.

Keeping in mind in a year and a half I’ll be moving and have all the space I need. I’ll be taking the mother plant i find with me and then will have more space to devote. I probably should have started on an Indica strain but I want a challenge and looks like I’ll have one. Regardless I’m sticking to my guns hunting after that green goddess, even with the extreme limitations I have before me.

Wish me luck! :laughing:

The Hatter · Sep 1, 2019

OZZ_ said:
Hatter in the house! I hear ya on all counts. However, I’m working through these seeds to find a nice green pheno. I have Indica strains to be short and squatty... so for better or worse Im not going to shy away from the taller ones because those are the phenos that I’m after.

Keeping in mind in a year and a half I’ll be moving and have all the space I need. I’ll be taking the mother plant i find with me and then will have more space to devote. I probably should have started on an Indica strain but I want a challenge and looks like I’ll have one. Regardless I’m sticking to my guns hunting after that green goddess, even with the extreme limitations I have before me.

Wish me luck!

I didn't realize you were specifically hunting for a green pheno in which case you should basically be looking for the exact opposite traits from what I suggested. From what I remember the green tended to be lankier and thinner leaved. Best of luck with your search.

Podenco · Sep 1, 2019

Thank you for the report. Interesting to see that your panamas also have relatively broad leaves still. I started to worry about mine not being a narrow leaf drug type and that the vendor sold me the wrong strain. Well it is compared to the zamaldelica that for sure is a narrow leaf drug type.

Best, P

Panama reg’s go micro

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