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Old 02-19-2019, 09:32 AM #1
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Six Ace Monsters Outdoors

Like any good n00b grower, happy to be doing it legally, even if I'm stuck with a plant count limit, I want to grow the six lushest plants I can while the sun is shining outdoors next summer.

But I don't just want the MOST bud, I want these outdoor monsters to be the BEST I can produce. I'm content to give up quantity in exchange for better quality, so that's my focus in seeking advice from the forum, as well as in the initial proposal I'm about to explain.

I plan to grow two kinds of strains outdoors. The long-flowering strains are Zamaldelica, Malawi, Golden Tiger, Bangi Haze x Ethiopian. Quicker finishers are Kali China and Lebanese.


My plan for the short flowering strains is simple: pop seeds in late March, top them at least once before they get hardened off and transplanted outdoors, but under a temporary hoop-house until frost threat is past. Supplement their light hours if needed to avoid early flowering.

My plan for the long-flowering strains is to pop seeds or start clones in late February, and veg them indoors until the weather warms, then for a time under a hoop house until I decide to kick them into flower. I plan to change to 12/12 lighting around June 15, and start hardening off the plants during the first weeks of 12/12. I'll have them in pots of soil up to that point, outside or in a greenhouse during daylight, and inside a dark tent at night.


By June 15th, I'll take the plants to their final locations in the garden, and place them in prepared soil in raised beds that will be something like 200 gallon grow bags, roughly. When I put the plants outdoors on June 15th, they will be in full flower already. They will remain in flower, as the days are getting shorter and the nights growing longer each successive day, which will keep the plants in flower, though they would not even begin to flower by themselves under natural sunlight until a month later.


By starting the plants into flower before placing them outside in July, I create an artificially sunny, warm climate: during flowering, these plants will be enjoying the best and strongest sunlight of the year: a time when most outdoor plants are still vegging.

My theory is that longer days and increased sunlight during flowering will result in better bud in the end. Admittedly, my theory doesn't have a clear grasp on the reasons why that bud might be better. I guess that I envision the longer days and warmer temperatures as being more like the tropical areas where most of these plants originated, and that they might thrive under those conditions. Or, more simply, more light shining on the bud means more and better bud. That seems to be a truism around here, at least with regard to sunlight.

I suspect that some of you who have grown these strains in the past may have some thoughts on whether Zamaldelica, Malawi, Golden Tiger and Bangi Haze x Ethiopian might be better or worse suited for this proposed grow process. I chose them primarily because they all require long finishing times, and might not finish outdoors at my latitude and elevation, if I wait for the natural day/night lengths to trigger flowering. I'm near Denver, at 40 Degrees North, but a bit higher elevation, at 7000 feet.

Other available strains that I'd love to try, but passed over in my initial selection for the summer season outdoors, are Orient Express, Snow Moon and Erdpurt. Mostly, they got passed over because I've already started them indoors, but I also wanted to concentrate on the sativas outdoors.


This is what my garden looked like on October 14 last year, so the Malawi, Zam and GT might enjoy a similar fate to the girl under that snow, if I get a long-finishing pheno!





By an odd coincidence, I'm enjoying a pleasant buzz at the moment, compliments of that very plant. Right after I took that photo, I cut the stem, shook off the snow, and took her inside to dry and cure. Besides cutting her earlier than I'd like (she could have used at least another week) that snow didn't deprive me of much.



But had she been a Malawi or GT, I would have been rushing to build a structure to cover her that night, because she would be nowhere near ready to harvest yet. Then she would have been subjected to two weeks of dry, chilly, cloudy, breezy weather that followed the snowfall. I'll rest easier growing those long-flowering strains by this force-flowering outdoor method, and enjoy a nice two-fer in the process: The plants enjoy more sunlight during flowering, and flowering is completed much earlier. (which means that I get to sample these wonderful-sounding strains sooner!)


AT this point, I have a couple questions for the hive-mind to ponder: First, given the strains I'm hoping to grow, is there any reason to think that Zam, GT, Malawi or BHxE would not excel with longer, warmer days during flowering? (daytime temperatures in the summer rarely get over ninety degrees.) Second, having grown these strains, do any of you have suggestions for training the plants during veg so that they have a good structure to carry the weight of the ginormous harvest I'm envisioning?







(could there be a more perfect smiley to accompany that notion?)
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:40 AM #2
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You’re contemplating many more moves than I can presently organize, but a few things arise to my thinking: All those strains sound like the kind of thing that you would love for high level mental activity; Improvised shelters needn’t be an extravagant buzzkill; Dep is a technology you could explore further; Maybe focus on indoor production; Experiment with leaving some more of that insane Sativa “roller coaster” stuff out in the snow for a couple days longer—if not a week or two (heads will say you’ll get max oils and trich production from dark and cold..also color.)

Can you get mold in the snow?

I’m not trying to harsh on you. I want to do Zamdelica and GT and Malawi, too. Whilst I can probably only handle an Erdpurt buzz. I guess I’m saying work the plant limit year-round to achieve your/more dream(s).

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Old 02-19-2019, 05:13 PM #3
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:03 PM #4
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If I was in your location I would replace Malawi, Zamaldelica and Golden Tiger with Panama, Purple Satellite and auto Malawi X NL to increase my chances of success.

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Old 02-19-2019, 06:26 PM #5
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Interesting plan I like it. I've flowered plants outdoors in late spring (April/May) after going 12/12 for a week or two indoors and it worked great. These were regular 8 week flowering strains not the long season types you're growing. I like your selection of strains you picked ones that are more tame. I wouldn't try this with wilder, untamed, longer flowering tropical types, Mangobiche and Hazes and such.

One year I did the opposite, started Vietnamese Black x Thai, Malawi, and a few other plants outdoors in July. Moved them indoors to finish flowering under artificial lighting in late October. Harvested between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Worked well except a couple of the Malawi showed nanners at the end of their flowering cycle. It wasn't a big deal, didn't cause my crop to be seeded but you'll be growing big outdoor plants so be aware it could be a problem.

The Kali China and especially the Lebanese are the oddballs. What's interesting about the Lebanese and other strains from the area, they begin flowering much earlier then other strains. Usually after a month or two. Then it takes them 12 weeks or so to finish. I'm not precise about this Lebanese because I haven't grown it but it finishes earlier not because it flowers quicker but because it stays in Veg for less time. This effects yield.

You're taking a big risk putting them out so early. Equatorial strains never see days longer then 13 hours or so. Going from 12/12 to the long days of early July could flip them back. By the time they do they'll want to go back into flowering again creating a mess. Even though the days are getting shorter they still may be long enough to confuse the plant. This also raises the potential of sex reversal. Putting them out after July 15 would be much safer but it's not an option with these strains.

Hoop houses are a great solution but then you're size limited. No matter how you do it you'll be pushing limits in some way. I'm looking forward to your updates this is an interesting experiment, one I've thought of trying myself. There's a chance the Kali China or Lebanese could get snowed in there's always the possibility of them taking until mid October to finish.

Myself I'd plant out a few normal main run type strains that finish by the end of September. That would hedge your bets in case your experiment runs astray. It'll be great if it all works out smooth you are correct to anticipate a huge harvest.

People think high altitude ganja is excellent because of the UV radiation. I'm not sure that's true. It's more likely the very low humidity and the temperatures which can be hot during the day and very cold at night. Perfect for flowering ganja to reach it's peak.

Me, I'd be looking for mountain strains that naturally love the high altitude. The Ethiopian is the closest you've got and the Bangi contains quite a bit of Nepalese. I'd expect this strain to shine under your conditions. Of course Central Asian strains would do great at your altitude. I'd guess you don't worry about grey mold.

The Lebanese may benefit, show a side the growers at lower altitudes don't get to see. It can make a huge difference we grow our plants in different and unnatural environments compared to the ones they're adapted to. In the future you could find a strain that's adapted to the cold and the heat and hit the harvest period just right.
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:39 PM #6
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Quote:
AT this point, I have a couple questions for the hive-mind to ponder: First, given the strains I'm hoping to grow, is there any reason to think that Zam, GT, Malawi or BHxE would not excel with longer, warmer days during flowering? (daytime temperatures in the summer rarely get over ninety degrees.) Second, having grown these strains, do any of you have suggestions for training the plants during veg so that they have a good structure to carry the weight of the ginormous harvest I'm envisioning?
Didn't really answer your questions so I'll have a go. Most strains are at their optimum production level in the 80s. Temperatures in the high 90s aren't the best for flowering. I think you'll be just right. I worry a bit about the cold night temperatures some of the tropical varieties may have a bit of trouble.

The question about training is a good one, whatever structure the plants have when you place them outside you'll have to live with. Mountains can have high winds which can be highly destructive. I've never been a big pruner I'd probably tie them over when they get put in the ground. This will create lots of tops all your long season strains would benefit from this treatment.

I'd tie the top to a stake 4 to 5 feet off the ground. This should make for dozens of tops instead of just a few without sacrificing the vigorous growth you get at the top of the plant. Hopefully with their tropical long flowering vigor the branches will pop up to the 6 to 8 foot range. The Malawi was ideal for this treatment and from the pictures I've seen of the Zamal and the others I'd guess they'd thrive as well.

Tying over works especially well with large bushy strains, where the branches on the lowest part of the plant curve out almost as far as the plant is tall. Not so well with short branched Afghan types. In a lot of ways we end up fighting nature, you're making things unnaturally hard on yourself and the plants by force flowering indoors and choosing strains that aren't adapted to your environment. I like tying off because it's something that happens often in nature, a large plant gets blown over or falls over from it's own weight.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:06 PM #7
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waste of time grow some more freeeze dried
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:13 PM #8
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Originally Posted by spazspaz View Post
You’re contemplating many more moves than I can presently organize,

Ha! I'm contemplating more than my brain can organize too. Thankfully, I hang out with a professional project planner, and she has coached me well: break a big project into a bunch of smaller ones and it becomes much more easily manageable. Oh, and write it down, because humans forget stuff.



That's part of the purpose of this thread: I'm writing down my plan, well in advance, and also seeking input from folks who can offer useful instruction. Thanks for spending part of your day helping me, ICMagers!





Quote:
Originally Posted by spazspaz
but a few things arise to my thinking: All those strains sound like the kind of thing that you would love for high level mental activity;

Yes, no doubt that's why some silly cowby wants to try using them to treat a mental illness. More "high level mental activity" would be welcome in my brain.





Quote:
Originally Posted by spazspaz
Improvised shelters needn’t be an extravagant buzzkill; Dep is a technology you could explore further;

We're on the same page. I'm already designing a lightweight, portable light dep tent in my mind, and thinking about a full-on light dep cover for my entire hoophouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spazspaz
I want to do Zamdelica and GT and Malawi, too. Whilst I can probably only handle an Erdpurt buzz. I guess I’m saying work the plant limit year-round to achieve your/more dream(s).


Following.

Oh yeah. We're on the same page there. While it's beyond the subject of this thread, I plan to try keeping six plants in flower pretty much continually, either indoors or out, year-round. While I'm talking with you guys about the four plants I want to put outside to flower in July, I'm thinking in the back of my mind: what OTHER two plants will be flowering, either inside or out, to make sure I have SIX flowering somewhere!


In truth, I think plant counts are silly. I'd prefer to be growing less bud more economically by using a sea of green indoors, but because of the plant count, I'm stuck growing fewer plants, less efficiently.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:27 PM #9
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Originally Posted by therevverend View Post

You're taking a big risk putting them out so early. Equatorial strains never see days longer then 13 hours or so. Going from 12/12 to the long days of early July could flip them back. By the time they do they'll want to go back into flowering again creating a mess. Even though the days are getting shorter they still may be long enough to confuse the plant. This also raises the potential of sex reversal. Putting them out after July 15 would be much safer but it's not an option with these strains.

I'm open to adjusting the dates. I'll be curious to learn whether anybody else around here has tried something like this with any of the Ace sativas. I read a great explanation of this method for moving force-flowered plants outdoors early. The guy was talking about growing smaller plants, basically starting hundreds of clones, already in flower when they go outside, so that they would finish before the LEOS start flying around, and they would also be small enough that they wouldn't be so easily visible from the air.


I liked the theory behind what he was doing, but since I don't need the stealth of small plants, I want to try it with big ones. I can't think of any reason the size should make any difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by therevverend

Me, I'd be looking for mountain strains that naturally love the high altitude. The Ethiopian is the closest you've got and the Bangi contains quite a bit of Nepalese. I'd expect this strain to shine under your conditions. Of course Central Asian strains would do great at your altitude. I'd guess you don't worry about grey mold.

The Lebanese may benefit, show a side the growers at lower altitudes don't get to see. It can make a huge difference we grow our plants in different and unnatural environments compared to the ones they're adapted to. In the future you could find a strain that's adapted to the cold and the heat and hit the harvest period just right.



Yep. Makes sense. But part of what I'm trying to do here is to learn how ACE strains that interest me will react to this method. I'm also in experimentation mode, to figure out which of these Ace genetics I like, and which ones I can make grow well here in the future. This grow is all about the experimentation and learning. (Naturally, as I'm the son of a scientist: the cowboy chemist.)
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:43 AM #10
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I agree I'd love to try out those strains. I'm further north then you, the only way I'm pulling it off is with a light dep hoophouse, preferably in the eastern desert side of the state. This guy is the model I wonder if there's any Rec people doing it like him in Colorado. Only Rec stuff around here I'd pay money for.

https://kionathc.com/sativa/

I accidentally grew an equatorial plant last summer and I'm glad I did. We didn't have a real frost until February, I was harvesting crappy stringy buds at Christmas but at least I harvested. I learned an important lesson and it's the Achilles' heel of your project. It wasn't that the equatorial NLD variety took a long time to flower (it did), it's that it wasn't triggered to flower until the autumn equinox.

In the tropics the summer days are almost 12/12 so the day length has to be at or drop below 12/12 to flower. I expected the plant to flower along with the others, late August or early Sept. Instead it waited until the last week of Sept to show hair clusters. With a normal main run plant that's triggered to start flowering in early August, especially clones, early July for you should work. After 3 or 4 weeks they will notice the days getting shorter in late July, early August and stop producing hormones telling them to revert to Veg.

The tropical plants may not start doing this until the end of August or early to mid September which gives them 8 weeks or more to produce hormones causing them to revert to Veg. I'm skeptical they could stay stable that long. You could try starting later but then you'll get frozen. It's a hard call I'll be rooting for you.

I've already posted this before but I'll post it again. Useful tool for figuring flowering times and day length. If you're growing a strain from Malawi for instance you can compare the day length their to the same day where you're located.

https://www.timeanddate.com/
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