IBL's list

Just wonna know which strains are IBL's, becouse ill start new breeding project.

I know about.

Skunk#1 (Flying dutchman, seedsman.)
Cinderella 99 (Brothers Grimms)
Big Bud (Sensi Seeds)
Sour Diesel (Rez)
Bangi Haze (Ace seeds)
White widow (White Label)
Passion#1 (Dutch Passion)
True Blueberry (Dj Short)

Blueberry (DP)
Power Plant (DP)

Northern Lights

Have you checked there isnt already a list of IBL's ??

dont forget landraces like

afghan

hindu kush

and any others they havent been hybridized

VerdantGreen said:

Blueberry (DP)
Power Plant (DP)

Northern Lights

Have you checked there isnt already a list of IBL's ??

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I tried to find it, but searching mode arent to good actually...

There are plenty of lists around here, search the strains section and only search within that forum versus the entire forum.

I am bumping this thread because I was about to create a brand new one, but then I found this one. I think it's safe to say that there are no easy-to-find lists anywhere. I just googled and even other forums don't tend to keep an active, up-to-date thread on the subject.

So please, everyone, refrain from saying "I think there are already lists out there" or anything similar to that, because there are not. And if there are, they are a decade old, and the strains listed within are extinct by now.


That being said...


Can we get a list of IBL strains going now? Then, maybe we could keep this thread updated as time passes on? I would like to start making my own seeds to store in my own seed vault, and I don't want to deal with too many hybrids anymore, unless I make them myself. The cannabis gene pool has been diluted way too damn much, and the only way to climb out of this hole that we have all created for ourselves is to resurrect the IBL lines and start doing F1 single-cross hybrids again.

I'll start, but I literally only know of 1 IBL line that is listed by the breeder as being a true, homozygous IBL... that would be Bubblegum by Serious Seeds.

I also understand that people refer to DJ's strains as being IBL's but that does not compute since they are all so heterozygous it's not even funny. So maybe we could try mentioning whether any given IBL line is heterozygous or homozygous? That would be helpful.

Anyone else know of actual inbred lines that are currently being offered in seed form right now?

I know I'm not the only one who would benefit from a list like this.

Herijuana IBL
******'s Jack F8 is pretty much a IBL
Skunk #1
Rare Dankness Afghani#1 IBL
Deep Chunk

Alot of landrace stuff from Ace and Cannabiogen is IBL lines maybe not totally stabilized.

What is that word that got censored there?

Also, is original Skunk #1 still being offered by a seed bank or breeder these days? I honestly haven't checked for that one, so I'm just asking. And Deep Chunk... that's an Afghani by Mr. Nice, right? Awesome, good to know that there are still IBL Afghanis. Thank you for contributing!

hush said:

What is that word that got censored there?

Also, is original Skunk #1 still being offered by a seed bank or breeder these days? I honestly haven't checked for that one, so I'm just asking. And Deep Chunk... that's an Afghani by Mr. Nice, right? Awesome, good to know that there are still IBL Afghanis. Thank you for contributing!

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never heard Tom Hill called "nice" before....

GeorgeWBush said:

never heard Tom Hill called "nice" before....

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Aah, so I was wrong about the breeder. Sorry about that. It's Tom Hill. Got it.

I believe the currently available Tom Hill's lines can be fairly called IBL's. The classic definition of inbred lines is on the order of 20 generations.* That level of breeding creates homozygous genetics but isn't the one that is commonly used for cannabis. I think of Tom as a breeder for breeders, because he's maintained these lines and their obvious value in F1s.
*If it is not obvious, I refer to sibling crosses.

Lets not forget that some folks consider cubed lines, like C99, IBL.

DJ Shorts lines are far from IBL status... they're as variable as some poly hybrids in their appearance, however, DJ breed for end use experiences, not appearances.

Way to many IBL's to be listed here.

MJPassion said:

cubed lines, like C99, IBL.

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there was a long explanation somewhere by chimera, buts whats the difference between cubed and ibl?

VonBudí said:

whats the difference between cubed and ibl?

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Cubed is repeated back crossing to one of the parents. Creating seed as close to that parent as possible.
Generational inbreeding is selecting within one generation for specimens with desired traits and using them for the next generation.

Wouldnt it be helpfull to define what would be considered IBL for this list?

Fair enough... For the purposes of this list, could we say IBL's are lines that have been genetically "bottlenecked" due to multiple generations of selective breeding, which could include backcrossing and cubing as well?

Adze said:

... The classic definition of inbred lines is on the order of 20 generations. That level of breeding creates homozygous genetics but isn't the one that is commonly used for cannabis...

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Not quite... it would be at least 20 generations of crossing between direct relatives (i.e. sibling x sibling or parent x direct offspring) preferably including selection for homozygous traits if visible somehow and selection against harmful ones. Usually followed again by at least 20 generations of loose inbreeding (e.g. with grandparents, aunts etc.). Only that way one can reach something like near complete homozygousity. But that sort of IBL is very unlikely to exist in any known cannabis strain because cannabis is highly susceptible to that (which on the other hand also translates in the visible heterosis effect or vice versa).
That said, what we call IBL is just a variety showing good homogeneity in its offspring no matter what the genes are. Usually, IBLs are lines bred rather tightly for several generations. If done nicely (and with a loooot of luck), these plants grow still strong, otherwise these plants are expected to show a certain degree of inbreeding depression. From what I've seen, Tom's Deep Chunk falls in the second category (and we know that Tom isn't a bad breeder but like most just starts to run out of luck, hopefully only with that strain).
I would say (no personal experience here) that an F10 or even less depending on the starting varieties should count as an 'IBL' if not cultivated on a big scale with open pollination (like Sam did back in the day; that results in a new variety like Skunk #1 but not in a homogeneous line).

You want something homogeneous as parent in hope of predictability of the offspring? Do a few selfings before you use that line for crosses...
If you want an idea on what to expect with real inbreeding, try an S10; disappointment guaranteed! But hey, the offspring will show a great hybrid vigour compared to the stunted parent .

lordbudly said:

dont forget landraces like afghan hindu kush and any others they havent been hybridized

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Landraces are a very long way from IBL! They are in fact highly diverse (but should still be recognised as member of this or that variety). Many so called landraces are just local forms and not landraces (real drug type landraces are maybe all extinct by now) or even selections of some 'superior' plants from the same field from a cannabis breeding country. That means, apart from The Real Seed Company, Gypsy's Collector's Pack (from what I've been told) and some other seeds brought back from private persons, there are no commercial landraces available; only worked strains based on such... If worked properly for mainstream growers, these should be rather homogeneous (broader leaves on one 'pheno' or purpling on another is no big deal in my opinion, most genes aren't that visibly expressed).

Asterix said:

Just wonna know which strains are IBL's, becouse ill start new breeding project.
...

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I don't understand why people want stable lines for breeding; all you get are very similar F1's every time you do that cross with the two parent lines. If you like that one, then everything is cool and you can make these F1's over and over again from the old parent lines you have to keep too. But there's not point in doing F2's if you don't like most things about the F1. Better, you take a landrace or a polyhybride (which can as easily be inbred and stabilised as a landrace) and get a lot of phenotypes to select from. You also have the chance that non perfect (regarding your taste) F1's still result in greater F2's. The F2's, whether from stable lines, unworked landraces or polyhybrides, show in any case a very high diversity; Is there a practical difference of mathematically getting 10'000'000 or 100'000'000 possible phenotypes? Chances are also higher to obtain a plant or two 'worthy' for further crossing and selecting or one with one part of what you seek and one with another one (Tom Hill wrote something about that). Also, with a certain diversity in the parental lines you increase the chances for an extreme phenotype (according to DJ Short, that's what you want for breeding programs) or in other words a worthy plant.

Just my two cents...

hush said:

Fair enough... For the purposes of this list, could we say IBL's are lines that have been genetically "bottlenecked" due to multiple generations of selective breeding, which could include backcrossing and cubing as well?

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Any IBL is somehow bottlenecked because you decrease genetic diversity to a max. But a bottlenecked line is not strictly homogenous.
What you want is a homozygous line with as few bottlenecking as possible; how you obtain that doesn't matter. Usually you do sibling crosses (resulting for example in a Jack F8), you do repeated back-crossing or a mix thereof (used to create Cannabiogen's Taskenti). BUT that doesn't mean these plants have to be homogeneous; you can select two lines of Jack, take it to the F7 and cross the two. That gives an F8 which is at the same time a pseudo-F1; it may behave like a real F1 or show a pretty good variability (DJ Short used a simple such approach). This strategy is good for breeding for several markers at once (higher chances); got that from Chimera or Tom Hill.
Selecting by itself can lead to a pretty stable line (also with more or less homozygousity) but doesn't imperatively result in an IBL (see above); though inbreeding without selecting leads later than sooner to that.
The quickest but most dangerous (in terms of failing quote due to unwanted/lethal recessive and/or polygenetic traits) way to obtain a stable line with a high homozygousity (which also does not or at least almost not needs selecting) is repeated selfing. Chimera recommends for that purpose (and others too) a selection for the absence of unwanted and harmful traits prior to a selection of desired ones.

Only Ornamental,
Stable lines are desirable for breeding because they provide one or more characteristics that are desirable to the person making the cross...

At least that's supposed to be the idea.

Some peeps think they can get good crosses by just crossing names and no selection.

I guess a person could get lucky.

Only ornamental, that was all very insightful, thank you.

Yes, the reason I think most people want to breed with inbred lines is because of the theoretical uniformity that would be exhibited in the F1 line. At least, that's how I understand it, but I'm a complete noob at breeding. I'm only just now deciding that it's important to start saving seeds for my future generations, and I don't want to leave them a bunch of polyhybrids if I can help it. So I thought it would be cool if I could store away some of the pure lines that today's hybrids came from. Like northern lights, skunk, Hindu kush, bubblegum, blueberry, Durban poison, whatever else there is. I'm certainly no expert, and that's why I need to start learning about breeding, which led me to people stating that breeding cannabis is about starting with 2 very different stabilized varieties if you want consistency in the F1.

Please someone school me if this is incorrect because I just want to be able to store seeds that, when eventually planted, will result in uniform seedlings. And as I understand it so far, the only way I can make that happen is to cross 2 different stabilized strains. Some people say IBL, some say stabilized, I guess I don't know what to look for.

Am I correct in understanding that if I cross two very different F1 varieties together, the result would still be F2, resulting in a mess of phenos?