Can you over-water Coco?

Theirs been alot debate lately as to whether or not you can over-water coco, and alot of guys new to coco are getting mixed messages and fucked up crops.
So lets try to (CIVILLY!) air this out.
Please do tell why you think/don't think coco can be over- watered.
I'll start;
I do not think coco can be over watered, ONCE ROOTS ARE ESTABLISHED.
Take 2 pots of same volume and plants, water one until perfectly wet but no run off, the other to run off. Whats the dif? The excess water ran out the bottom, their is no more excess water in one than the other, none. So neither pot will have anymore wet coco around the roots than the other pot. Coco will only hold X amount of water, no more. Gravity does its thing so both pots will have more water towards the bottom.
The reason why people see over water symptoms is because they don't let the roots grow down into the pot, they keep watering and watering and the plant is bloated and the coco is soaked and since the plant isnt thirsty roots won't budge, etc. THAT is not over watering coco.
Once roots take hold you can water with as much runoff as you want.
Watering without run off is fine, as long as you don't let the coco dry out too much between watering, otherwise salts WILL be in concentration in the coco and without runoff, your water is now melting salt and spiking your mix, and you'll start seeing "nute brun" but you're wondering why because you dont over nute.
So, this is all my opinion based on my experiences. I am NOT saying I am 100% right, especially because enviroment plays a HUGE part.

"Just watching, looking around.... nice store"

Aerokush101 said:

evlme2,

The roots on your plants should almost be completely dry before watering/feeding again. Over-fertilizing your plants can often lead to lock-out or excessive burn, ether of which is bad. So, keep it simple, water when dry, feed when hungry, and Grow Hard.

Click to expand...

If that was the case, why would so many have success with dripper systems that water three times daily?

I think evlme2's post is a pretty good sum up of the situation. The time I've found it beneficial to let the coco dry out that little bit more is after a transplant. Letting it get nearly dry that first couple of waterings after a repot really seems to encourage the plant to put on some quick roots as it seeks out the moisture left in the coco.

Other than that, though, and possibly with new seedlings to avoid damping off, I see absolutely no reason to ever let that coco get nearly dry.

I don't think I've managed to over water a single coco plant, whereas under-watering is far easier.. I'd say underwatering, not overwatering, should be a newbie coco growers biggest concern.. and this comes from a relative newbie, who has managed to under water a few times!

The reason why coco is such a great medium is because of its capacity to hold the perfect air/water ratio for roots to thrive. Coco can only hold X amount of water, no more. As long as you have proper drainage then coco will always hold that perfect ratio no matter how much water you pour over it, and slowly evaporate/get soaked up by the plant over time (Though as coco ages it starts breaking down to finer particles its becomes more "mushy")
In theory what you're saying is correct, but then theirs hydro...

I'm with you McSnappler, I to let my coco dry alittle after transplant, thats how I avoid the "over water" thing.

evlme2 said:

Theirs been alot debate lately as to whether or not you can over-water coco, and alot of guys new to coco are getting mixed messages and fucked up crops.
So lets try to (CIVILLY!) air this out.
Please do tell why you think/don't think coco can be over- watered.
I'll start;
I do not think coco can be over watered, ONCE ROOTS ARE ESTABLISHED.
Take 2 pots of same volume and plants, water one until perfectly wet but no run off, the other to run off. Whats the dif? The excess water ran out the bottom, their is no more excess water in one than the other, none. So neither pot will have anymore wet coco around the roots than the other pot. Coco will only hold X amount of water, no more. Gravity does its thing so both pots will have more water towards the bottom.
The reason why people see over water symptoms is because they don't let the roots grow down into the pot, they keep watering and watering and the plant is bloated and the coco is soaked and since the plant isnt thirsty roots won't budge, etc. THAT is not over watering coco.
Once roots take hold you can water with as much runoff as you want.
Watering without run off is fine, as long as you don't let the coco dry out too much between watering, otherwise salts WILL be in concentration in the coco and without runoff, your water is now melting salt and spiking your mix, and you'll start seeing "nute brun" but you're wondering why because you dont over nute.
So, this is all my opinion based on my experiences. I am NOT saying I am 100% right, especially because enviroment plays a HUGE part.

Click to expand...

Hey I'm down with a civil discussion of this but want to make sure we're talking about the same thing....I kinda outlined my general opinion, for what it's worth in the previous thread.... http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=130535 and stick by that, but think a full discussion is good.....

I gotta wonder if different coco (fine, stranded, canna, expanded brick....) holds different amounts of oxygen and that could be a variable here....I'm not a science guy but is there such a tool you could stick in wet coco and measure such a thing? (sorry if that's an idiot ?)....I never remember thinking about this when i was using bcuzz coco but now with the expanded brick stuff this whole thing has become a consideration...

On to the original question and premices...
" I do not think coco can be over watered, ONCE ROOTS ARE ESTABLISHED."

I kinda agree, dependent on exactly what we all established...but for me in the expanded brick I'm using now, once the roots can really begin to show they're drying out they're new pot in, say, under 2 days, from then on it seems they can't be overwatered...at this point i can run to waste and water 2+ times a day no problem the roots are rockin...

"Take 2 pots of same volume and plants, water one until perfectly wet but no run off, the other to run off. Whats the dif? The excess water ran out the bottom, their is no more excess water in one than the other, none. So neither pot will have anymore wet coco around the roots than the other pot. Coco will only hold X amount of water, no more. "

Not trying to come off as sarcastic or argumentative with this part, but for the sake of clear discussion....
1. what does watering to runoff or not runoff have to do with overwatering if your point is that they have the same water in the coco right after watering? Wouldn't the question be about how long you let the coco dry before rewatering?
2. If it does matter, how do you know the 'non-runoff' watering is as fully watered if there wasn't any runoff?


"The reason why people see over water symptoms is because they don't let the roots grow down into the pot, they keep watering and watering and the plant is bloated and the coco is soaked and since the plant isnt thirsty roots won't budge, etc. THAT is not over watering coco. "

What is it then? They're rewatering instead of not watering and letting the roots find moisture as the coco dries....





Wait...I might get the confusion...

Are you considering "overwatering coco" watering/feeding it too much in one given watering???? While I'm considering "overwatering coco" watering/feeding it too often and never letting the median dry out a little (keeping it too wet too long before roots can handle it?)

Thats what I want to know, what does run off/ no run off have to do with it? I see that come up on alot of threads.
Your last sentence sums it up for me "keeping the medium too wet before the roots can handle it".
I think you understand my confusing talk, lol

BTW, I'm burning some Godbud as we speak and loving this "shop talk". K+

Yes you can over water. Not in the same sense as with soil where the leaves will droop but you can get out of that optimal zone if you really tried.

There are also different grades of coco and one will hold more than another. BIG difference with changing brands and coco.

Bottom line, it's hard as shit to over water and you have to be a special type of fail to do it.

Coco rocks!

OK cool...so my confusion is understandable....

I agree w/ Johnny about the different grades/types of coco..

I'd like to know type which holds the most oxygen/air...That's the coco I want to use...

It all depends on the roots. I grow in small containers, but when the plants are smaller than the container I can overwater. Once the plants have taken hold I stop hand watering.

Forgot to mention the flood and drains guys. By the very nature of that type set up the coco gets completely submegred in water...

Yeah I get a solid inch of water with my autopot-like setup... it's too much for small plants.

I'm beginning to see 6 of 1/half dozen of the other. Small roots/big pot=over water.
Established roots=perfect water every time.
Sounds logical to me.

Oh, diferent grades of coco has been mentioned twice now, VALID VALID VALID points. Its something that few ever take into consideration. I used one brand/grade for awhile and didnt realize how big a dif it makes until I switched grades. Excellent point!

I have perlite in my coco and when i keep them to wet i suffocate the roots and growth come to a halt.
When i give them about 2 cups of water depending on size of container.
They Thrive.

These two are hand watered, 3x a day, major runoff, straight coco.

GREAT PLANTS BEST OF LUCK WITH THEM NOT THAT I THINK YOULL NEED IT

To avoid over watering a transplant, soak the plant in it's old pot, place into new pot of coir as usual, gently firm in place but DON'T water it in, the excess water is soaked up by the new coco leaving near perfect conditions for new root growth
I run to waste and always have 10/15% run-off, i have seen how quick it gets salty without, and am certain it helps to keep my PH/medium balanced, i don't believe Canna suggest this to sell more product, if that is the case they negate any gains by advising to re-use the coir up to 3 times.
It is worth joining the Canna site for the grow reports and detailed product information for all Canna products, plus ton's of general grow stuff, customizable nutrient/grow chart etc.

w/ wick system, in coco, never worry about this issue, as plants always have access to water via wick in lower bucket.

plants during mid-late flowering can easily drink 1-3 gallons of water per 24 hr period. they will not assimilate 1000ppm of nutes in 24 hrs, but will draw up and transpire it back out into the surrounding atmosphere.

cannot really measure how much plant is drinking unless can see how much is dehumidified. if dehumidification+constant air flow over leaves is not occurring, plant wiull drink less.

in this imaginary garden, plants in coco are never w/out an availble source of water. all a gardener has to do is get a brick of coco, saturate w/ water, place in container, and pour water into container... the water will drain straight thru; especially w/ perlite added. dont see how a gardener could possible over-water a porous media like coco (esp. mixed w/ perlite).

part of the question deals w/ how gardeners water too. can bottom feed, top feed, or do both. bottom feeding permits uppper portion of media to become drier, thus permitting greater oxygen flow up and out of media. however, since water contains oxygen (h2o) when watering via top, that moisture breraks down into a oxygen atom that is released into media.

when get down to it, gets to preference of gardener. have found that plants drink lot more water than may initially suspect. they need it 24/7. why deny a basic building block of the plant's process?

if always want water present, but relatively dry media, just place 1/2" piece of nylon rope into drainage hole(s), place external end in water. plant will wick up only what it wants, and media will be moist, but not overly saturated.

w/ this method, can soak media by filling bottom 5 gal bucket; remove water w/ simple turket roaster, for drier media; or have just enough water present that plant gets hungry @ desired time, due to observation of when/how much plant drinks. worked well, and has zero waste of water or nutes:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=127112
coco+wick+gh flora nova=never dump run-off|pdg’s imaginary/enjoyable garden

lowest uptake of water in just prior to dawn (lights on), when stomata still closed. if running automated watering, no need to water until ~1-2 hrs after lights on. very easy to influence plant @ this period of day.

enjoy your garden!

McSnappler said:

If that was the case, why would so many have success with dripper systems that water three times daily?

I think evlme2's post is a pretty good sum up of the situation. The time I've found it beneficial to let the coco dry out that little bit more is after a transplant. Letting it get nearly dry that first couple of waterings after a repot really seems to encourage the plant to put on some quick roots as it seeks out the moisture left in the coco.

Other than that, though, and possibly with new seedlings to avoid damping off, I see absolutely no reason to ever let that coco get nearly dry.

I don't think I've managed to over water a single coco plant, whereas under-watering is far easier.. I'd say underwatering, not overwatering, should be a newbie coco growers biggest concern.. and this comes from a relative newbie, who has managed to under water a few times!

Click to expand...

Drip systems are a little different to me. You can use the drip system with soil on timers if use correctly.

I use Coco also, I treat my coco just like soil, and I get the same results if not better, lately, I have been mixing 1 bag of Happy Frog w/ 1 block of Coco. SUCCESS, everytime!!! I like the straight coco because it can be re-used, but I never re-use.

Even with only 1/3 of my old mix as coco coir, I never managed to overwater a plant, not once. Now I use 1/2 coco coir and it's even better. I suppose it may be possible if you let standing water sit in the pot, but if it has drainage you basically can't overwater.