How do the 90s and early 2000s elites stack up to today’s hype strains?

bigbadbiddy · Jan 14, 2019

Mr. Greengenes said:
If it's really that special, don't risk keeping it to yourself. I'm telling you from experience. If your friends have it, you can always get it back.

Question to the wise:
If you are in an illegal place and follow the don't sell, don't tell, don't smell side of things and really nobody knows about your project for safety reasons....
How do you keep a cut safe?

I currently wouldn't know any way safe for sending a clone by mail to someone from the forums abroad or creating a "mom box" at work or some other location where I still would have to be the one checking on it regularly ..

insomniac_AU · Jan 14, 2019

bigbadbiddy said:
Question to the wise:
If you are in an illegal place and follow the don't sell, don't tell, don't smell side of things and really nobody knows about your project for safety reasons....
How do you keep a cut safe?

I currently wouldn't know any way safe for sending a clone by mail to someone from the forums abroad or creating a "mom box" at work or some other location where I still would have to be the one checking on it regularly ..

I have the same problem mate being in a land of prohibition. I don't know any other local growers because I've always been very quiet about what I do. I have never been busted either but it means I don't have a plan B. I have to rely on seed stock which sucks because as we know not all seeds are created equal. I have lost many precious cuts over the years because of this. I haven't found a solution because being such a small grower I don't really have the space to breed.

Som 2 · Jan 14, 2019

When I was in that situation I always knew a couple other homegrowers. They were people I had known in life for a long time and for things other than weed and I knew they weren't selling either. We traded clones, but ultimately it was making seeds that kept strains intact for a long time. Take that special female and F2 or F3 it with a male from the same line. There will be some fire in those seeds and you will usually be able to find that pheno again. That also allows you to keep your genes if you have to shut down for a long time and others lose the clone.

TychoMonolyth · Jan 14, 2019

Try a stealth grow box. (@Alanbrown88 Great job dude!)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=357525

I'd add a blumat and a small jug of water because I'm too lazy to water every day.

JohnnyChicago · Jan 14, 2019

If you don't want that something gets lost, just share it with enough people.
Or store as much seeds as you can of the batch where you have found your keeper.

F2-F3's are not a solution, at least for the crosses I like to work with, but it's better than nothing.

farmerlion · Jan 14, 2019

I feel most genetics can be very good. If they are grown out by a very good growers. Take the same genetics or clones and have them grown out by someone who only cares about quantity? You will have two entirely different plants. New growers will also have varied results. Curing has a great deal to do with quality. Most bud is rushed to a dispensary.
If everyone did a 3 month cure, you would have the same schedule. Your products would be vastly improved and desired.
Peace. MedDakotabis

beta · Jan 14, 2019

farmerlion said:
I feel most genetics can be very good. If they are grown out by a very good growers. Take the same genetics or clones and have them grown out by someone who only cares about quantity? You will have two entirely different plants. New growers will also have varied results. Curing has a great deal to do with quality. Most bud is rushed to a dispensary.
If everyone did a 3 month cure, you would have the same schedule. Your products would be vastly improved and desired.
Peace. MedDakotabis

Curing is a myth created by outdoor growers to make people feel like they were getting something special when they were being sold last year's old shit.

Cannabis does change in flavor over time, but this change is the result of lighter monoterpenes evaporating. The change is the smell becoming less complex.

If your herb doesn't smell it's very best the moment it's dry, you did something terribly wrong.

With the exception of products that *actually* cure via fermentation, no vegetable product is improved with age.

JohnnyChicago · Jan 14, 2019

For me, there are strains that have traits that improve over the time with the cure.
I would not judge a plant only by its taste/smell and effect just after finished drying.

beta · Jan 14, 2019

JohnnyChicago said:
For me, there are strains that have traits that improve over the time with the cure.
I would not judge a plant only by its taste/smell and effect just after finished drying.

I guess this could be true if you had a cultivar with gross-smelling monoterpenes (less stable, evaporate easily) and good smelling sesquiterpenes (more stable, evaporate more slowly), and it only smelled good after the gross terpenes burned off.

Having to cure a pheno like this for months for it to be smokable seems like a hell of a lot of extra work / time / space / money when you could just select a cultivar that didn't have gross monoterpenes in the first place.

Ready4 · Jan 14, 2019

Almost all strains are far much better with at least 2 weeks cure after drying. Definitely more potent. 3 months would be excessive, have not personally noted any extra benefit of curing for months as opposed to 2-3 weeks. Dispensary bud is usually dried too fast, picked too early, pumped full of ferts.

Many of strains of the 80's - 90's were okay, not all were that special. The awesome Dutch strains going downhill like they did were from ridiculously bad business practices.
How these breeders did not have current seeds stashed off-site and prime clones stashed at several off-company sites was puzzling - I guess they felt completely safe and that nothing would ever happen. But even more puzzling was how they just did not re-create their strains using their own seeds that vendors had. Apparently none of them cared enough about anything but $, thought they could just continue based in name reputation alone. A whole lot of people got ripped of for years getting watered down crap.

QuietStorm · Jan 14, 2019

Lemon G and dumpster from Ohio circa 2002 man!!!!

JockBudman · Jan 14, 2019

beta said:
I guess this could be true if you had a cultivar with gross-smelling monoterpenes (less stable, evaporate easily) and good smelling sesquiterpenes (more stable, evaporate more slowly), and it only smelled good after the gross terpenes burned off.

Having to cure a pheno like this for months for it to be smokable seems like a hell of a lot of extra work / time / space / money when you could just select a cultivar that didn't have gross monoterpenes in the first place.

I rarely cure for months on end as I often have no stash left when new plants come down but whilst I do smoke right off the (dry) stem, I also stick the bulk in jars and smoke it down over time.

In my experience, smell and effect definitely, without a doubt, change over time. On pretty much every strain. Now that's not to say that I think every pheno of every strain improves because there's been some I preferred the high on before the cure and the effect changes as time goes on - sometimes because the high got too muddy, sometimes because it develops a sharp buzzing edge to it.
But some are better after a cure and I believe that's what most people would want to aim for, simply for reasons of practicality if nothing else.

Like I smoke a ton like most on here, but I'm not going to get through a full harvest in one go so I actually want a plant that will improve as it ages as then I can continue to enjoy it as I smoke it. Most personal use growers are in the same boat and unless you were pulling off a perpetual harvest and smoking as you go I can't see why you wouldn't want a curing plant. You'd be smoking a ton though :smokeit:

Obviously if you are doing that then more power to you :tiphat:

The only other thing I'd add is that monoterps aren't everything. I smoke and grow for effect. If I find a plant that smells of nothing but gets me the high I like, then I'm keeping it.

Ganja gu brah :joint:

'Boogieman' · Jan 14, 2019

Grew a hindu kush years ago that just gave me a massive head ache after dry. Months later I was out and tried it again and it got me stoned no head ache.

mexweed · Jan 14, 2019

from when my buds go into jars to 6 months in there is definitely some change, 6 months is when I feel they are 'old', but the changes over the course of that time aren't leaps and bounds miracles like there is all of a sudden potency that wasn't there before or something, it's not going to out of nowhere pick up some crazy nose

the changes are on par with slow drying the last bit of moisture, like there will be some smells that dominate at first that smooth out, 2-3 weeks in for example a nug will leave the tips of my fingers just a bit sticky when I break it up but I won't have to wash my hands or anything vs when the buds are first dry enough to smoke and are getting ready to be put into jars they leave hash on my finger tips or very very sticky and I have to wash them with alcohol

yoss33 · Jan 15, 2019

beta said:
Curing is a myth created by outdoor growers to make people feel like they were getting something special when they were being sold last year's old shit.

Cannabis does change in flavor over time, but this change is the result of lighter monoterpenes evaporating. The change is the smell becoming less complex.

If your herb doesn't smell it's very best the moment it's dry, you did something terribly wrong.

With the exception of products that *actually* cure via fermentation, no vegetable product is improved with age.

And what is your reason to believe that curing of buds doesn't *actually* involve fermentation (aerobic or not) or a similar process where substances are broken down by bacteria or yeast?
I'm asking because I've been under the impression that it is commonly accepted that curing of buds involves breakdown by microorganisms. That's why curing doesn't happen if you dry your buds too much, and is accelerated when the buds are more moist. And it is the fastest in methods like cobbing (or tricks like packing moist buds for 2 days) where the high water content and anaerobic conditions accelerate the processes.

You reject the curing as a myth, but you talk only about smells and terpenes. Do you think that these are the only changes that happen during the time of "curing"? No changes in cannabinoids (and other possibly active substances)? I'm thinking about simple processes like oxidation and decarboxilation and how these might happen at different rate for each cannabinoid and so the cannabinoids (and their acids and oxides) ratios change with time, possibly progressing to a "better" ratio in some strains, but not in others?

If this is a myth (and I don't argue that some producers use "curing" as advantage to sell old shit), I'd really like to know the reason why some sativas when grown in my outdoor environment have a very heavy effect after harvest, but have a nice clear effect after a year, when the same clones grown indoors have the great nice clear effect right after harvest... Am I waiting a whole year for some additional monoterpenes to evaporate and go where in the jar? And what do I have to do to avoid the need to wait a whole year, other than finding another cultivar?
Just curious, because I've been pondering a lot lately on why strains in the jars "cure" differently, some getting stronger, some weaker, some best at 3 months, others at more than a year. Several years ago, I myself wouldn't believe there is cannabis that needs a year and more of curing to bring its best, but I had such a clone (of Ace's Panama) that was best at 2 years of staying in the jars.

Brother Nature · Jan 15, 2019

yoss33 said:
And what is your reason to believe that curing of buds doesn't *actually* involve fermentation (aerobic or not) or a similar process where substances are broken down by bacteria or yeast?
I'm asking because I've been under the impression that it is commonly accepted that curing of buds involves breakdown by microorganisms. That's why curing doesn't happen if you dry your buds too much, and is accelerated when the buds are more moist. And it is the fastest in methods like cobbing (or tricks like packing moist buds for 2 days) where the high water content and anaerobic conditions accelerate the processes.

You reject the curing as a myth, but you talk only about smells and terpenes. Do you think that these are the only changes that happen during the time of "curing"? No changes in cannabinoids (and other possibly active substances)? I'm thinking about simple processes like oxidation and decarboxilation and how these might happen at different rate for each cannabinoid and so the cannabinoids (and their acids and oxides) ratios change with time, possibly progressing to a "better" ratio in some strains, but not in others?

If this is a myth (and I don't argue that some producers use "curing" as advantage to sell old shit), I'd really like to know the reason why some sativas when grown in my outdoor environment have a very heavy effect after harvest, but have a nice clear effect after a year, when the same clones grown indoors have the great nice clear effect right after harvest... Am I waiting a whole year for some additional monoterpenes to evaporate and go where in the jar? And what do I have to do to avoid the need to wait a whole year, other than finding another cultivar?
Just curious, because I've been pondering a lot lately on why strains in the jars "cure" differently, some getting stronger, some weaker, some best at 3 months, others at more than a year. Several years ago, I myself wouldn't believe there is cannabis that needs a year and more of curing to bring its best, but I had such a clone (of Ace's Panama) that was best at 2 years of staying in the jars.

https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1997-01-01_1_page008.html

Quote from article.

The stability of (-)-D9-tetrahydrocannabinol (D9-THC) has been the subject of several investigations (1-13). In 1970, Liskow (1) reported that marijuana deteriorates during storage at room temperature because of the loss of D9-THC at a rate of 3 to 5 per cent a month. Shoyama and others (3) were able to isolate cannabinolic acid (CBNA) from stored hemp but not from fresh hemp, and concluded that conversion of tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA) to CBNA was effected by ultraviolet light and by storage and heat. The same conclusion was reached by Turner and others (4, 5), who reported that THC disappeared at a rate of 3.83, 5.38 and 6.92 per cent per year over two years when stored at -18o, 4o, and 22o C, respectively. The loss of THC was essentially complete at 37o C and 50o C. Fairbairn and others (6) reported that carefully prepared herbal or resin cannabis products are reasonably stable for one to two years if stored in the dark at room temperature.

bigtacofarmer · Jan 15, 2019

Usually the people who deny curing are growing strains that have been selected to taste best after a few weeks. I know for fact curing works. In fact it is part of my pheno selection is to keep testing through a good cure. I have seen lots of things change over time between two near identical phenotypes. The one that tasted best first was not the one that tasted best a few months later. I kept the pheno that improves with age.

hard rain · Jan 16, 2019

beta said:
Curing is a myth created by outdoor growers to make people feel like they were getting something special when they were being sold last year's old shit.

Cannabis does change in flavor over time, but this change is the result of lighter monoterpenes evaporating. The change is the smell becoming less complex.

If your herb doesn't smell it's very best the moment it's dry, you did something terribly wrong.

With the exception of products that *actually* cure via fermentation, no vegetable product is improved with age.

I don't remotely care about flavour, to me it's all about the high. I do know that some varieties have massive changes in effect following a cure, particularly some NLD varieties.

I grew a local sativa a few years ago which was awful when I first dried it. Even after a months cure it was still a weak and boring high. I put it in a jar and forgot about it. About 6 months later I found it and thought I'd try it again. It was like a different drug; uplifting, intense, slightly trippy. Nothing like it had been before. I think that some (not all) sativa's in particular, can be vastly improved with a cure.

I can't offer a scientific explanation as obviously the thc hasn't increased, but something has changed. It smells and tastes different too. I have noticed that a long cure can turn milky trichomes amber over time. Maybe that has something to do with it? However the same variety left in the ground until amber won't be the same as the 6 month cured weed that has now turned trichomes amber. I know this as I've tried. I often experiment with different harvest times.

J-Icky · Jan 16, 2019

I had a bagseed that was mostly sativa do that too. When I first chopped it it was a very heart racing paranoid high with very little euphoria and not psychedelic like most heart racers. Although I’ve never done crack, it just made me think of a crack like high.
But after curing for a few months it was completely different. The heart racing mellowed, the paranoia disappeared and it became energetic, yet focused an inciteful. For those who are into sports, to me at least, it was definitely a performance enhancer as it sharpened your focus and you also became aware of every little detail and how to correct even the smallest things.
So yeah a cure definitely matters as that herb was NOT enjoyable a couple weeks after harvest but a few months later was not only enjoyable but was a useful tool to me.

bigbadbiddy · Jan 16, 2019

hard rain said:
I can't offer a scientific explanation as obviously the thc hasn't increased, but something has changed.

It has degraded just far enough and just in the right way (through fermentation) that you, a human being with your particular genetic/chemical makeup, can most enjoy/feel its effects.

That does not mean that it is at "peak performance" of its active compounds. It has degraded in that regard.

But it is at "peak performance" of what you, as a human, can recognize/feel.

If you are a medical patient that requires the active compounds in the cannabis for your ailments, you would not want to cure your buds but consume them as soon as possible at the lowest point of degradation of the active compounds (unless of course the active compounds you need for your ailment are the ones that form during the "degrading" process).

But if you are recreational and want to get high, it is not only the "nasty terpenes evaporating, leaving the good ones". It is the active compounds degrading (and I believe forming new/different ones) to the point where they get you "the highest".

Not really scientific, but an explanation nonetheless?

How do the 90s and early 2000s elites stack up to today’s hype strains?

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