IP66 LED Fixtures -> Mind = Blown

Terpene · Feb 21, 2015

habeeb said:
well I love your bottom quotes..

thing I notice, is the WW looks to produce the same growth as the CW or is it just me?

I've noticed the same thing that in veg, it seems anything you throw at them they like, but I settled on a 4,000k spectrum... this was due to red and blue led units seem to grow very very good veg plants, so is it the blue or red in the unit I wondered... I have come to believe plants in veg also like red.. also like the higher Cri in WW usually, but I guess mine are NW then? not sure been out of the game to long with spectrum, but very interesting pics as it might lead us to NW or WW leaning in veg... I know they say blue in veg, but I'm not so sure yet I buy this testing my different panels I built...

I ran warm white / cool white side by side because I routinely run extreme sativas right next to typical commercial hybrids and I had hoped the cool white light would help to keep the hazes from stretching as much.

To my surprise, warm white and cool white produce very similar growth, though the plants under the cool white focus a bit more on stem thickness and branching development.

If you're looking to keep em in veg longer, I would run cool white units - but nothing replaces LST for the really stretchy plants.

ghostmade · Feb 21, 2015

Whats the foot print for your dual 50 watt veg?

Terpene · Feb 21, 2015

Large veg (dual 50w): 44"w x 44"h x 24"d
Small veg (currently single 30w, but soon to be dual 30w): 26"w x 25"h x 24"d

ghostmade · Feb 21, 2015

Thanks bro ima pick up 2 50w for my veg cool and warm just like you.lol

Dion · Feb 23, 2015

yeah those lights have been on my radar for a while, sometimes i see them on sale for as little as 30$(50w) im always tempted to buy one if only fo®*the heatsink and driver then put in a cree chip but the drivers always have low voltages lol

whats your driver pushing on these leds?

luxcultivars · Feb 28, 2015

I picked up the 30w version in 6000k and was surprised at the output. Even if you were just using these to light your work area they are a great deal; a lot cheaper/cooler than T5s definitely.

I did a quick lumens check and came up with about 1,150 at 3 feet. (Sorry, I have no idea what a 'umol' is. Newbie here.)

Edit:

1 foot: 7,600 lumens
2 feet: 2,200
3 feet: 1,150
4 feet: 670

These penetrate a lot better than horticultural LED fixtures with red/blue LEDs. Now if we could just find a spectrum graph of their output. Googled for quite a while but no go. I'm curious how plants would do health-wise over a period of a couple months under these, like for mother plants or plants in quarantine. Not looking for lush growth, just maintenance lighting. There are times when you want plants to slow down; this seems like a possible method.

Who knows where to find a spectrum graph of the output of these?

I'm going to get a couple 50w units and see what happens anyway, but I am really curious. If they have even mediocre results it makes those $800 multi-color units seem pretty silly.

luxcultivars · Feb 28, 2015

Not to say that these could replace those multi-colered LEDs. There's no comparison; these are basically yard spotlights. Not knocking the expensive ones, just can't afford them. :tiphat:

luxcultivars · Mar 1, 2015

sound of crickets

How exactly are those spectrum graphs made, anyway?

Koondense · Mar 2, 2015

Actually a combination of 6400k and 2700k should produce a well balanced near white light, the spectrums look way better compared to hps(for my taste).
I'm thinking of making a 200-300w led panel using mostly white cobs like used in these fixtures + some reds and maybe uv-b.

Any updates on your plants Terpene?

luxcultivars · Mar 2, 2015

Ooooh, nice. That's not too bad a spectrum for cool LEDs. I think you're on the right track in mixing the warm and cool.

I'm going to grab a couple 50w units and do a long-term trial. I'll report back here. Again, I'm mainly just shooting for long-term maintenance rather than lush rapid growth. I'm pretty sure they'll do fine for that. I could see using 2 cool units and 2 warm ones over a ~4 x 4 area for that.

Terpene · Mar 3, 2015

Updates on my veg cab? Its working very well. So well that I've been starting seedlings and other plants in it.

Kali Chinas in large veg:

Panamas / SFV OGs / Watermelons (actual watermelons)

hicksticky · Mar 3, 2015

Looking great, sure you heard this a lot... but I like those leds, want to get fitted with some myself... so are they easy to find, big box stores? I found some a while back from another site, didn't buy cause I wasn't sure they would work.
Seeing your results I would like to try and replace the ol' cfl's I have in my cab.
Thanks. :tiphat:

Subbed!

luxcultivars · Mar 4, 2015

Currently unavailable on Amazon. Ebay might have a few. A few variations from China on eBay for sure, apparently with Bridgelux chips.

If I had the knowhow or instructions I'd put something together with these: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Philips-Lumileds/LHC1-5080-1205/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83ywmlvJIAFxZef1NPEfbkn20%3d

More info on Luxeons here: http://www.mouser.com/new/Philips-Lumileds/philipslumileds-Luxeon-CoB/

Damn, look at this baby: 5,300 lumens for $30 - some assembly required. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Philips-Lumileds/LHC1-5770-1211/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83y1zhPTc0SxQxxmN86RziIE7aXQ57gZzHPw%3d%3d

Again, these aren't a replacement for multicolor horticultural LED arrays, but they seem like a great way to light certain veg areas at a fraction of the cost of T5s or hort-level LED fixtures. My T5 fixtures plow through the bulbs like crazy. Not to mention the heat.

As I browsed around looking at various LED types it became really obvious that manufacturers don't want to get people thinking that these will veg plants in any way. There is a lot of talk about 'duplicating the sun's spectrum', but not if you're a plant I guess. For that you're supposed to head to another division of the same company, one that makes plant LEDs that unfortunately cost 1000% more. Ones that also have to be like 12" from the damned plant tops and have shitty penetration instead of being 4 feet overhead.

Not enough red and far red with these? Some blue but no UV, obviously. Interested to see how my test plants react. If they ever come into stock again.

Terpene · Mar 4, 2015

luxcultivars said:
As I browsed around looking at various LED types it became really obvious that manufacturers don't want to get people thinking that these will veg plants in any way. There is a lot of talk about 'duplicating the sun's spectrum', but not if you're a plant I guess. For that you're supposed to head to another division of the same company, one that makes plant LEDs that unfortunately cost 1000% more.

It's funny, I was noticing the same thing. In companies without pink lights, the bulbs are sold as direct replacements for HPS / MH, but if the company sells purple grow lights as well, somehow the LED fixtures were not suitable for plants.

I think the pink light is probably a little more effective at making them grow, but as we've all seen, CFLs are white lights and they do just fine - and these units work better than my CFLs did.

luxcultivars · Mar 4, 2015

The horticultural LED industry is huge, and IMO the prices are inflated to absurd levels. Selling <$100 worth of electronics for $1000+ is pretty much extortion. It's a huge cash cow for these companies.

But then, I suppose we could say the same thing about high-end food additives like Canna's BioBoost or BioBizz's BioHeaven. The thing is: at least BioBoost pays for itself 100 times over. These high-end LED lights aren't going to increase yields or improve quality over EyeHorti bulbs in a conventional HPS fixture. Yes, you do have to buy new HID bulbs every 9 months, but after 5 years of use a LED setup will still not have paid for itself.

My biggest gripe with the high end LEDs (aside from the price) is the lack of light penetration. These cheaper 'white light' LEDs at least provide that. I'd love to see fixtures offered that provided 3 chips like these grouped together in the warm, white and bluish spectrums to round out the spectrum curve a bit more. But if they did that we wouldn't consider buying those $1000 fixtures, now would we?

luxcultivars · Mar 8, 2015

Okay, regarding the fixture OP linked to: I was wrong about my lumen outputs. (I'll edit that.) That number I gave seemed high, so I checked the 30w cool version again and here's what I came up with:

at 1 foot: 7,600 lumens
at 2 feet: 2,200 lumens
at 3 feet: 1,150 lumens
at 4 feet: 670 lumens

Not bad at 2 feet or less, but that isn't quite the penetration I need. (obligatory 'that's what she said'). When you consider T5 lumen outputs these aren't really a viable alternative, unless it were for temporary reasons like to quarantine or to slow down plants that are getting too large too fast. Or maybe for seedlings or clones?

I'll test a 50w version if they ever get them in stock again.

In the meantime I read the LED forum post a bit more regarding COB lighting and clearly I am pretty clueless still. I noticed that many folks prefer the Cree 3070 chip, which has a warm spectral output. I would have leaned towards a higher temp like 5,500, but as I said I am clueless at this point.

I also saw this RGB version of COB spotlights on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200W-50W-30W-20W-10W-LED-RGB-PIR-Flood-Spot-Light-Outdoor-Landscape-Garden-Lamp-/371118788271?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item5668674eaf

(Scroll way down for details and specs.)

Interestingly, the higher-output versions like the 50w model have incremental adjustment of R, G and B via remote. That would imply some basic ability to adjust the color spectrum towards plant friendliness. It would be a crap shoot and guessing game without spectrum analysis, though.

The only reason I care about these is that they are really inexpensive and pull very little power, run cool and in some areas I may not really need a $1000 LED fixture. For general veg areas and for production I think halide and T5 fixtures are still the best bet at this time.

That said, it would be fun to construct a customized array with super-high output chips, mixing the spectrums a bit. Or what about running half a dozen RGB chips, having six independent color adjustment options?

I do think these COBs might take over the LED market.

J-zee · Mar 8, 2015

http://www.lumensales.com/ip_ratings.htm

Terpene · Mar 8, 2015

luxcultivars said:
Not bad at 2 feet or less, but that isn't quite the penetration I need. (obligatory 'that's what she said'). When you consider T5 lumen outputs these aren't really a viable alternative, unless it were for temporary reasons like to quarantine or to slow down plants that are getting too large too fast. Or maybe for seedlings or clones?

How much penetration do you get from T5s? I always got CFL-like light output from them. From what I've seen, these LEDs will use roughly half as much wattage and produce just as much light as CFLs - with way less heat. So if you have 9) 23w CFLs (207w) in veg, you could run two 50w units and see the same light coverage, but with better penetration.

I added this graph to the thread to try and explain the penetration I'm seeing:

Veg Brightness: 1000-300umol / Flowering Brightness: 1700-750umol

You can see, CFLs work great in veg till about 7 inches off the bulb (300 umol). The 30w has this till about 13 inches and the 50w has it till about 16 inches off the fixture.

For a 30w unit, I wouldn't use them for anything past small veg. They are DYNAMITE for starting seeds and clones and work great for small veg.

50w unit (or multiple 50ws) could be used for flower in a scrog or LST setup or in small cab grows like Blynx's / Verdant Green's setups. But I think they work better in large veg.

If I was going to flower with these LEDs, I would use similar wattages to what you see in the actual wattage draw of Blackstar units. My 240w is about 140w from what I remember reading, so I would get either a single 150w unit (traditional growing) around 8 inches off the tops of the plants - or - 3) 50w units (scrog / lst) hung about 4-6 inches off the tops of the plants.

The nice part is that the glass on the LED fixtures allows you to spray the plants without fear and since the glass doesnt get hot, you can literally grow into the fixtures - something you cant do with flouros.

luxcultivars · Mar 8, 2015

I'll do a quick test later today to see how T5s hold up penetration-wise. I have no experience with cfls; I prefer top lighting and not having to move multiple cfls around to keep them close to the canopy. I did find this interesting comparison of LED vs. CFL: http://www.designrecycleinc.com/led%20comp%20chart.html

budelight · May 8, 2015

How has you opinion developed with more use?

Thinking about adding a supplemental 30w or 50w unit to my 18" x 30" flower room.
Currently I have a 150w HPS in there. Are the units in stock anywhere right now?

Thanks,
Budelight

IP66 LED Fixtures -> Mind = Blown

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