When did your recycled soil start not doing so well?

Lapides · Sep 16, 2015

Mine has been going over 2 years now. I don't get soil tests done, never have.

My plants still look AMAZING. My last yield CRUSHED.

I never consider balancing minerals or whether or not i have positive or negative cations or any of that.

All I do is put the same ingredients back onto the next plant that made the plant before it perform so well. And WORMS.

So I guess I'm just wondering when I should expect this whole thing to just crumble/implode.

At what point did you have to take things from being simple, to being complicated?

heady blunts · Sep 16, 2015

everything is looking pretty good in my garden....

Lapides · Sep 16, 2015

How long has your dirt been cycling?

xmobotx · Sep 16, 2015

years, i lost track ~still there ready to cycle some more

heady blunts · Sep 16, 2015

this garden the oldest containers are on their third cycle i'd say.

in the past i've gone 2+ years building on the same batch of soil.

i'd suspect i could go 6+ years no problem with proper care.

i only dropped batches of soil because i was moving. i really felt like i was sacrificing a major personal asset when i left my soil in california.

one good tip for recycling is to keep aeration in mind when re amending.

i'll bet if you keep a no till pot active with live and healthy roots and biology then the root structures and soil aggregates will keep good porosity in the container even as some of the original aeration amendments break down. that's just speculation tho, i'm still gaining experience with no till containers.

Marlo · Sep 16, 2015

I'm about to reuse soil for the 1st time. Looks too easy, lol.

Lapides · Sep 16, 2015

Marlo said:
I'm about to reuse soil for the 1st time. Looks too easy, lol.

Yeah, it sure does look easy, right?

I'm just nervous though about how long my soil is going to actually last.

I read some of these threads with such intense discussions on soil tests, soil Rx's, albrecht ratios, etc. and it makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong that I'm not paying attention to these things.

I'm just wondering when it's going to stop working is all.

Marlo · Sep 17, 2015

Lapides said:
it makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong that I'm not paying attention to these things.

Maybe not paying attention to it is part of doing it right.
K.I.S.S..... less room for grower error.

I'm just following your lead bro. Took the old dirt, put some ammendments back in, add EWC and chill. Still a while b4 I get rollin. Cloning has been humbling me lately lol

Bmac1 · Sep 17, 2015

Lapides said:
Yeah, it sure does look easy, right?

I'm just nervous though about how long my soil is going to actually last.

I read some of these threads with such intense discussions on soil tests, soil Rx's, albrecht ratios, etc. and it makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong that I'm not paying attention to these things.

I'm just wondering when it's going to stop working is all.

I feel ya there. Im just starting down the organic road myself and the amount of info can be intimidating and enough to make your head spin. I do find it interesting though and just decided to start out simple and just start doing it. I could read till Im blue in the face but I need to get it in action and learn on the fly. Otherwise, I would never feel I had read/learned enough to be successful.

I started out with a simple recipe and it worked just fine. Now Im letting new soil cook for my second attempt with a few more amendments and taking baby steps, lol. Im sure once I get in my own place, I will eventually try no till.

Midnight Tokar · Sep 17, 2015

I have been using my soil for 2 years now with 5 grows and every new grow is turning out better than the previous.
I add the same amount of EWC, D.E, Lime, Neem Meal, Soft Rock Phosphate and Kelp Meal as in the original mix when re-amending. I use 1/2 the amount of all the other amendments and add rice hulls as needed to lighten up the soil.

TheyCallMeJJay · Sep 17, 2015

The biggest issue I've had was the peat breaking down and I don't get that "fluffy" consistency.

I've tried coco. I would cut my mix around the 3rd or 4th round with 25% of coco by volume. I run a perpetual, meaning I reammend and put back into service. It's a space issue.

I think it might have been Microbeman that once said microbes and Coco doesn't mix well. Hence the reason I only do 25%.

My soil volume "grows" so I'm constantly sending the remainder outside to the garden.

CannaBrix · Sep 17, 2015

@lapides

There are a few different schools of thought here. I'll tell you why you're getting confused.

Cootz developed his soil with astera. Astera used albretch ratios to determine a perfect soil. There have been many studies done both for and against the ratios.

A take on it that I read was, sure the ratios work, but there is no evidence to say they work better than not those ratios. And so long as you have sufficient amounts of each nutrient, your plant will be healthy. With a few exceptions, and that is element interaction and "lock-out".

So the people who claim you necessarily need a soil test and Rx and ppms this, are claiming you need the right base cation saturation ratios. Meanwhile, you've been adding the "correct" amounts of amendments and your plants are looking fantastic.

I think it depends on your scale, and what it costs to achieve the perfect ratios.

If you are newer to this style of growing, and wanted to set up a massive grow, I hope you get a soil test and use the BCSR, because they do work.

But if your beds are smashing it, I doubt they will stop any time soon. Biggest problem I see is the break down of the peat. Adding some more with proper aeration should alleviate that though.

This is my opinion.

heady blunts · Sep 17, 2015

lappy is my favorite troll.

:nanana:

heady blunts · Sep 17, 2015

if you mulch with ligneous material like leaf litter and twigs and leave your roots int he soil to decompose i think that may function similarly to the peat in the initial mix.

the only time i've added more peat to a recycle was to bulk up the material if i needed to fill extra containers. i may just have never reached that critical point tho.

bigshrimp · Sep 17, 2015

My oldest no tills are three or four cycles old, they are all getting remixed before the next run. I've not had any problems so far, especially as I've moved up to larger containers. Before planting i run a good strength of fish hydroslate followed by an ACT. Add a little topdress and im good.

Heady blunts is on to something here, lignin (rice hulls) decomposes under the right conditions into stable humus. Combine that with rock dusts, clay, char, etc... you have the makings for a stable and long term productive soil with minimal imputs. Especially when processed by composting worms.

As far as proper tilth is concerned, just start adding rice hulls. They radically change the texture of the soil fresh and broken down.

Scrappy4 · Sep 18, 2015

Midnight Tokar said:
I have been using my soil for 2 years now with 5 grows and every new grow is turning out better than the previous.
I add the same amount of EWC, D.E, Lime, Neem Meal, Soft Rock Phosphate and Kelp Meal as in the original mix when re-amending. I use 1/2 the amount of all the other amendments and add rice hulls as needed to lighten up the soil.

Both lime and soft rock phosphates really don't need to be added back very often if at all. In my times I seen quite a few grows go downhill after amending with lime. If for some reason you think you need more calcium, look at gypsum. It's cheap, easy, works fast, adds sulfur. Win win win. And getting enough calcium is very easy if you use a diverse botanical feed or in the mix itself.

I'm not a top dress guy so much, so I mainly feed teas of the ussual suspects. I might feel different if I was a top dress only type grower. Most of the nutrients needed are most likely in your soil IMHO. So in my mind the thing is, to make what is there available. Including old roots, if your doing no till living soil grows. ( and you should, lol) I make things available with good compost, seed teas for enzymes, humic/fulvic acids. The nutrients will also be in various teas.

In more practical terms. At a transplant when I remove the root ball, and knock loose dirt from it, I put the dirt from the new hole in a same sized pot as the transplant. When the hole fits the new pot, I transplant. Then if it's been a while, or i think something extra was needed by how the last plant faired in that pot, I add a handfull of gypsum, crab meal, neem meal, kelp meal. One or all as needed, but I've never needed to add much at all.

OK, back to my story. After the new plant in safely in the hole, I dump the dirt and old roots on top the pot that I saved from the holes, and add a thin top dress of good compost.

My way is not by any means the only way. But I know it works well. The grows themselves seem to go like clockwork, boring actually, unless you have some outside disaster, like bugs or environmental problems.

The concept itself is simple. Take care of your soil like a living thing. And well, you know the rest.

Siever · Sep 18, 2015

I recycle my soil too. After the harvest I put it in containers as long as my current grow goes. Sometimes I first use it for other plants(this technique was used by medieval farmers too). As nutrients I use bonemael, seaweed, lavameal, whey(from yoghurt) and sometimes epsom salt and fossilised kokolites.

Siever

Ratzilla · Sep 18, 2015

In June of 2012 I had just harvested a good crop and reamended as usual in my recycling practices.
I am a big believer in putting all parts of the plants that were not used back into the mix.
Including roots.
I leave them sit out some before adding back in.
I also opine that things that break down quick like blood, guanos, kelp and all meals and such should be added back in full amounts.
In the contrast things that break down slower like limes, bones most minerals should only be added back in in 1/2 the original amounts.
So I had just harvest a bountiful crop and a month had went by since re-amending my mix.
I had a few deck plants that needed transplanting and decided to use some of my super soil.
What a mistake after about 10 days every one of these transplanted deck plants were looking bad, I mean really bad.
Osmosis at its best. No amount of flushing could right these plants again.
I mean big beautiful plants suck dry by soil that only recently gave life to big beautiful plants.

It left me scratching both my ass and head at the same time.
I pondered what could of happen.
I finally came to a conclusion that it was just to many mineral for refined house plants to be able to deal with.
Cutting to the short of it I was completely unable to trust that mix again. It didn't go to waste found many spots around my yard.
Dump it all ,90 some gallons I had ,and had been running it for years with little problems, but just couldn't trust it anymore.
It went from , Now that's some good shit to I better not use that.
I mean I might of never would of given that mix any question.
Now a days if needing soil for other things I don't use my mix. Sometimes its better to be clueless.
LOL
Ratz
Since them I made up a new batch doing it the same way, well maybe amending on the lighter side.
Slowly I am globally putting in less in favor of more and heavier top dressing.

stoned-trout · Sep 18, 2015

hell I once had 10 year old soil still kicking ass...yeehaw...

who dat is · Sep 18, 2015

I would say barring some weird pest infestation just keep riding that wave. If it ain't broke, don't fix it? If the shoe fits wear it? I think that's the whole allure of growing organically. Just give the plant and the soil what they need to handle their business and they take care of the rest. I've never done a no till but have always recycled and reamended my soil. I'll be doing my first no til next year with my outdoor pallet planter I made and I'm looking forward to it. Although I already know I'll be adding some 2x? to the existing structure to add volume and grow one big monster in there so I guess it will technically be no till on the bottom half and new soil on the top.... tangents.

When did your recycled soil start not doing so well?

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